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Could AA Use A 777-300 On Any Routes?  
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

Are there any routes that AA could use a 777-300? The reason I ask is because I have travelled a few times to Brazil on AA and I spoken to friends and fellow passengers who travel more than I do on AA to other parts of the world, it always come up how some of these AA routes are always packed. I know that AA has alot of frequencies to many destinations so the 777-200 and smaller aircraft have worked well for their route structure and there have not been a need for larger a/c. There was a very long discussion on here recently regarding the future of AA but I did not see any reference to a 777-300 viabilty. I sure a-netters on here could give some insight on this probability if it would make sense or not. Thanks.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8926 times:

They really like having the flexibility of the 772ER as the largest jet, and their 777s are RR.

But if they were to order the 772LR like DL, you might see them also order the 773ER. I sort of doubt either...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8284 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8909 times:
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TO Sao Paulo, they may need to operate more flights with 772ER and not 767's. That would provide more seats in total. Miami to GRU is now 4 flights daily.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
They really like having the flexibility of the 772ER as the largest jet, and their 777s are RR.

isnt teh A300 the biggest jet (due the seats) in the AA fleet?



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8829 times:
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Possibly on the LHR runs, just due to slot issues, but I tend to think they'll stick with the 777-200(ER/LR) and 787-10 as the "top end", at least for the near future.

User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8796 times:

The flights to Brazil are always full NOW because Varig has stopped flying their 777s to the US. However, to answer the OP's question you need to understand a few routes.

AA Flight 951 (B 772) that does JFK-GRU-GIG for example, starts out of LHR, flies over the atlantic, lands in the evening gets turned around to GRU the same night, flies a mostly empty short hop (200 miles) to GIG, rests for a few hours, flies a mostly empty short hop to GRU, then flies to JFK, lands at 6AM, gets turned around the same morning and flies to LHR, and repeats.

Flying a 773 over the Atlantic a few times a day may be harder to fill. Flying a 773 mostly empty for the GRU-GIG-GRU legs is VERY expensive. Then, traffic to BRazil is still somewhat seasonal and when a 773 is not full it is VERY expensive.

So all in all, AA opted for the flexibility in scheduling and the lower risk of flying a 772 vs a 773.

Now what they trully need to do is upgrade their 763s that fly MIA to Brazil - that is an awful ride. I'd love to see an all 772ER AA fleet or better yet an all 789 fleet - that would rock in flexibility and economics.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3566 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

AA seems to like the fact that they can send any one particular T7 on any T7 route in the system. AA likes frequency, not size. I also don't see them ordering the 772LR, mostly because they seem to be making the 772ER work on their very long distance routes.


PHX based
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8772 times:

AA has more 777-200ERs than they need (IMO), adding 777-300ERs is not helpful.

What AA needs are 787s, and plenty of them.

First batch (2010) of 787 (787-3) to replace A300s and 767-200s
Second batch (2012) of 787s (787-8) to replace 767-300s



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4426 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8758 times:

Seems like ever since AA got rid of the 747-100s back in the 70s, they've been quite comfy with D10-sized aircraft as their largest plane. The 777 seems to be a perfect D10 replacement for them.

User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8643 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 5):
The flights to Brazil are always full NOW because Varig has stopped flying their 777s to the US. However, to answer the OP's question you need to understand a few routes.

AA Flight 951 (B 772) that does JFK-GRU-GIG for example, starts out of LHR, flies over the atlantic, lands in the evening gets turned around to GRU the same night, flies a mostly empty short hop (200 miles) to GIG, rests for a few hours, flies a mostly empty short hop to GRU, then flies to JFK, lands at 6AM, gets turned around the same morning and flies to LHR, and repeats.

Flying a 773 over the Atlantic a few times a day may be harder to fill. Flying a 773 mostly empty for the GRU-GIG-GRU legs is VERY expensive. Then, traffic to BRazil is still somewhat seasonal and when a 773 is not full it is VERY expensive.


So all in all, AA opted for the flexibility in scheduling and the lower risk of flying a 772 vs a 773.

Now what they trully need to do is upgrade their 763s that fly MIA to Brazil - that is an awful ride. I'd love to see an all 772ER AA fleet or better yet an all 789 fleet - that would rock in flexibility and economics.

Thank you for this information. I did not know that the 777 used on the LHR route goes on to GRU.


User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 9):
Thank you for this information. I did not know that the 777 used on the LHR route goes on to GRU.

You are welcome. AA is a master of aircraft utilization on the 777. They actually change the departure times of the GRU-JFK 777 as the daylight savings go into effect in the US and Brazil, so that the flight lands always just before 6AM at JFK, which is when customs opens up, so they can get that plane working over the atlantic as early as possible. Smart more, me thinks.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineN353SK From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 820 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

Also, does the 773 physically fit everywhere at ORD? I know the A340-600 is not generally welcomed at ORD due to its length.

User currently offlineQantas777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Baron 95,

Correction, DL is the master of 777 utilization. Avg 17hrs on the frame.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8552 times:

AA could probably use the larger 777-300 capacity on some routes, but not year round, and definitely not enough to justify an entirely new fleet with new systems, new requirements, and new engines. The 777-200IGWs do just fine in their present role as AA's longhaul flagship, and while the planes may be packed in many markets, that's just how AA wants it. Any airline would rather have 100% load factors on a 250-seat plane versus 70% load factors on a 350-seat plane.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8471 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
isnt teh A300 the biggest jet (due the seats) in the AA fleet?

No.

Just because they have it fitted as a high density aircraft doesn't mean it's bigger.

The 772ER is AA's largest aircraft in size, in MTOW, and if they were to fit it as a 2 class plane, it would hold the most pax.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8451 times:

How about getting some A330s or maybe the A340s instead of 777s. Just a suggestion. I think AA's livery would look good on an A330/340. What do you guys think?

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8439 times:

Quoting N353SK (Reply 11):
Also, does the 773 physically fit everywhere at ORD? I know the A340-600 is not generally welcomed at ORD due to its length.

It shouldn't have too much of a problem...

ORD has been accepting more A346's lately....ORD gets the occasional IB A346 and now there is scheduled LH A346...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7191 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8439 times:
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LHR NRT and GIG.

I don't think this would warrant any order for the 773.

 twocents 


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8439 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 15):
How about getting some A330s or maybe the A340s instead of 777s. Just a suggestion. I think AA's livery would look good on an A330/340. What do you guys think?

very good idea, but will never happen....



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineQFSYD744 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8427 times:

Prime candidates for the 777-300:

JFK-GRU
JFK-LHR

LAX-JFK
LAX-LHR
LAX-NRT
LAX-ORD

MIA-EZE
MIA-GRU
MIA-LHR

ORD-DEL
ORD-LHR
ORD-NRT
ORD-PVG

Will they order them, probably not..


User currently offlineMGASJO From Nicaragua, joined Feb 2005, 463 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8377 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
Quoting Avianca (Reply 3):
isnt teh A300 the biggest jet (due the seats) in the AA fleet?

No.

Just because they have it fitted as a high density aircraft doesn't mean it's bigger.

The 772ER is AA's largest aircraft in size, in MTOW, and if they were to fit it as a 2 class plane, it would hold the most pax.

I guess what Avianca was asking if the A300 is the one that carries the most passengers, and yes, it is. Total seats in the A300 is 266/267, vs 247 seats in the T7.



C208B
User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8341 times:

AA could consider purchasing these beauties for future fleet modernization to use them on high capacity international routes like LHR. I hope they purchase some 773ER's soon, and I bet this is the next airplane they'll buy because AA doesn't want to purchase any 4-Engined aircraft again. But the 787 can also be the candidate for future fleet modernization.


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[Edited 2006-10-13 06:31:44]

User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8288 times:

The question of if they could use them: yes. Will they? No. As has been mentioned, there is no way to get an RR powered 773. Sure flights are full, and would still be full with a 773, but AA is better off sticking with the -200. For the same reason, I doubt UA will ever order 773s (or DL, for that matter). CO--maybe, for EWR-HKG/NRT/PEK.

User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8180 times:

Quoting Mason (Reply 22):
As has been mentioned, there is no way to get an RR powered 773.

That is only if they order B777-300ER. If they were to order B777-300A, RR is always an option.


User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8081 times:

[quote=Baron95,reply=5/quote]

Thanks for the insightful reply. I tend to disagree just maybe 3%. I have been flying to Brazil pretty regularly since 1996 from MIA, and even when Varig was flying, all flights were usually packed. I do miss the Varig flight to REC the most (I terminate now in NAT). TAM is taking up a lot of slack, but for the past 3 years all AA/JJ codeshare flights are packed. This route must be a cash cow for both carriers.

It is a seasonal route, though maybe it is becoming less so as time goes on (from personal observation, no facts to back that up). The last time I booked a MIA-NAT flight during Holidays, the price was over 3 grand. I just flew it again, the "cheapest ticket" was 1,600. (The least I ever paid was just after 9/11 on an empty flight for USD 407, no restrictions).



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
25 TinPusher007 : I don't think you'd ever see AA use such a large a/c on LAX-JFK. The premium traffic on that route is part of AA's bread and butter. They go for freq
26 Jfk777 : STT757, Under what theory does "AA have too many 777's" ? That's an ignorant statement. AA needs more 777 to expand to Asia and the ultra haul routes.
27 RJ111 : AA considered the 773A back in 2000ish for JFK-LHR but ultimately rejeceted it. Citing flexibility as an issue.
28 LipeGIG : This is seasonal and not 4 daily but 3 daily + 5 weekly (26 flights/week) ! GRU-MIA is a 18 weekly flights route. But you could introduce a GRU-MIA 7
29 SJUSXM : of course AA needs the 773 so they can send it to SXM!!
30 Baron95 : Hi Felipe. I didn't quite understand your comment. Are you implying that AA is selling GIG-GRU F and C tickets on their own right rather than simply
31 AA777223 : You must be kidding! That is painfully innaccurate. AA has put their best minds to work at managing to spread those 45 aircraft across their network.
32 Spartanmjf : About as likely as LH buying 737NG, 777, etc.....
33 LipeGIG : Probably i'm not so clear. I'm telling that GIG-GRU leg is a way to AA sell GIG-JFK and GIG-DFW. As you know, AA couldn't sell GIG-GRU. I get your po
34 Donzilasse : First AA will need to get rid of the awful 767,s they operate GRU and GIG with. If they would be replaced with 772,s the flights would be both more pl
35 STT757 : AA has recently dropped SJC_NRT, DFW-KIX, ORD-Nagoya, they let Boeing use one of their 777s for testing. That's alot of 777s looking for a route, the
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