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Should I Pay For An Extra Seat?  
User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6299 times:

Hi everyone.

This thread is a follow up, on the archived thread about fat people.
There have been various arguments, about what to do.
I have a follow up question on this matter:

I am 6"8' tall, and my weight is around 270 lbs.

I have a BMI of 10, so i am not fat in any way. I am just a big guy.

I can imagine it must be terrible for someone to sit next to me in an aeroplane.
But should i pay for an extra seat, just because i was born this way.
In my world, it would be the same, as letting people in wheelchairs pay extra for the handling, which i am sure, no one here would think is ok.

I'm looking forward to hear your thoughts.

Regards
Thomas

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Hi Thomas,

Me and my mates fly a lot for work, and some of the guys are pretty tall and suffer in cattle class, but not as heavy as yourself. So I understand your feelings.

Ok, let me ask you a question, you know your size, do you really want to sit in an economy seat? Your size is not your fault, nor mine. I weigh 210 pounds at 5'8" (ex athlete), do you want to sit next to me, hell, we'd need 4 seats between the 2 of us.

Fly biz and enjoy the flight. To bad I can't transerfer AA Upgrades to you, I have 27 (and counting) I'll never use.



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6235 times:

Hi AirSpare.

You definately have a point. You and me together? Hmm...

I would very much prefer to sit in business class, but there is a financial issue.

I am going to India in january, and i just checked the prices for that trip.

Economy: 850 dollars

Business: 3100 dollars.

So there is a huge gap between those prices. I have to pay myself, and 2250 dollars difference is a lot for me.

I am going to Paris in november and the prices for that trip is:

Economy: 199 dollars.

Business: 1800 dollars.

So again, the price difference is so huge, that it is hard to justify, with my financial situation.

I realise, that i get more benefits flying in business, but i never use the ability to change the ticket, and i guess that is a big part, of what you pay extra.

Regards
Thomas


User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6223 times:

Quoting CPHGuard (Thread starter):
I have a BMI of 10

You're about to expire from anorexia I'm afraid. An BMI of under 23 is considered low, BMI under 18,5 should be hospitalized and fed intravenously.

Maybe you count differently from us?!? If you're approx. 2 mtrs and weigh in at 122 kilos? BMI is around 30, which is way too much.

Ask the airline for advise on your seating and yuor doctor for advise on your health please!



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6199 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 3):
You're about to expire from anorexia I'm afraid. An BMI of under 23 is considered low, BMI under 18,5 should be hospitalized and fed intravenously.

You might be right. What i mean is, that my bodyfat is approx. 10% of my weight, which i beleive is relatively healthy.

Cheers
Thomas


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

No 1: Your BMI is closer to 30, not 10, which makes you "overweight", but you aren't obese, at least by my practice's standards. And at 6'8", I wouldn't be the one to tell you, even if you were.

I've though of this one myself, for greedy reasons. I'm not certain how the airline's handle the request for that extra seat, or how you keep other passengers out of it, but, consider:

2 seats buys 2x the frequent flyer miles, not 1.5x as a business class seat does. Your 17" wide econ. seat goes to 34". One of the best premium econ seats in the air, Singapore on their 345 is 20". Delta goes to 21 in BE on their 777 fleet. You have just bought twice the luggage allowance. Assuming 44lbs allowance in econ, you now have 88lbs allowed. I believe domestic first is 60. So far, this seems like a no brainer to me.

Down side: for twice the economy price, you are probably still buying your drinks, and getting them served in a plastic cup. Food is still economy, although you are entitled to two meals. Your seat pitch and recline is still miserable, but no one looks or feels good after spending 5 hours in a 20th Century torture chamber, at 35,000' and 0% atmospheric humidity pressurised to 8000', with 2-4 turbofan engines screaming 20' from your ears. You can lie flat with cuddly blankets as much as you like, it isn't a real bed.

For a 1-2 hour flight, I can't see it. But internationally, it just strikes me as a no brainer. I'm just not certain of the logistics of booking two seats in your own name.



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

No. I'm built along traditional lines, and I don't need an extra seat. Rule of thumb - if you don't need a seatbelt extension, you don't need an extra seat.

User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6027 times:

You could buy two seats but you are likely to have one at the front and one at the back!

You also say cost is an issue with business class, but you could afford to blow $850 on an extra trip to India?

Best advice is turn up early and get an exit seat with more room.


User currently offlineRipcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5996 times:

I buy 2 seats sometimes altough I'M not big I'm not a people person and hate to seat next to people. I love the planes that have only 2 seats together then you have nothing to worry about. Its great when you have a empty seat next to you. Put your laptop on the empty seat and sprawl out and enjoy the flight....

User currently offlineLamedianaranja From Venezuela, joined Nov 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 5):
I'm just not certain of the logistics of booking two seats in your own name.

The airline will block a service seat right next to you. You will have only one boarding pass. The second seat might be cheaper too. It won't have a meal and does not carry any weight, so does not use extra kerosene. You'll have normal luggage allowance.



I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
User currently offlineDgehfx From Canada, joined May 2001, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Please don't quote me but I believe at AC, at least, a second seat purchased because of a weight/size issue is 1/2 price.

You might want to contact your airline to confirm this.

Regards, DgeHfx


User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

Thank you very much, for all your replies.

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 7):
You also say cost is an issue with business class, but you could afford to blow $850 on an extra trip to India?

It's not an extra trip. It's my yearly vacation. And because i can affords 850, it doesn't mean i can afford 3100.

Quoting Saintsman (Reply 7):
Best advice is turn up early and get an exit seat with more room.

Thats also what i normally will do.

For me it's torture to be seated for 10 hours in a economy seat. But i also think about the people that has to sit next to me. It must also be terrible for them, to be seated next to me.
I flew MIA-CDG earlier this year on an AF 747-400. The check-in crew were very friendly and provided me with an exit seat on the upper floor. 2 meters of legroom, which was great, but the seat was probably the most narrow seat i have ever been in. My hips just couldnt fit in.

Regards
Thomas


User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5593 times:

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 11):
I flew MIA-CDG earlier this year on an AF 747-400. The check-in crew were very friendly and provided me with an exit seat on the upper floor. 2 meters of legroom, which was great, but the seat was probably the most narrow seat i have ever been in. My hips just couldnt fit in.

Because in these seats, as there is not seat in front, the table and the PTV are in the armests, so this take space on both sides of the seat.



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 5):
2 seats buys 2x the frequent flyer miles, not 1.5x as a business class seat does. Your 17" wide econ. seat goes to 34". One of the best premium econ seats in the air, Singapore on their 345 is 20". Delta goes to 21 in BE on their 777 fleet. You have just bought twice the luggage allowance. Assuming 44lbs allowance in econ, you now have 88lbs allowed. I believe domestic first is 60. So far, this seems like a no brainer to me.

I don't know how all airlines work(but I suspect it's similar across the board), but I know mine won't double credit you mileage based on the fact that you've bought two seats. FF programs are based on the passenger, not how many seats he buys. On the same token, if you buy seats for four friends and they aren't FF members, you can't recieve credit for their seats.



PHX based
User currently offlineBobster2 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5537 times:

You need to make the reservation by telephoning the airline. You CANNOT buy two seats for one person on any Internet Web site; if you try, the empty seat will be counted as a "no show" and you will lose it. Only the airline personnel can handle the special reservation properly.

User currently offlineCPHGuard From Denmark, joined Jun 2006, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

I beleive that the airlines should offer a product between Economy and Business.

I would like a product where i could buy a business seat, with food and drinks, but without the ability to change tickets.

This could probably make a product priced between economy and business, which i beleive many people would be willing to pay for. They could call it Business Light.

SK offers a product called economy flex, but this product combines the economy seat with the ability to change flights.

Does any airline offer a product similar to Business Light ?

Cheers
Thomas


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

Most airlines already offer this in the form of discounted business class seating.

On DL it is the I class fares. There are restrictions such as fees for changes, 7 day minimum stay, 60 day minimum advance booking.


User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Here's a wrinkle in this discussion:

I have a client that allows me to buy two business class seats when traveling trans-Atlantic. My client is generous so that I have the extra space, and westbound day trips I get a lot of work done with the extra seat being like an office.

But, several times, a gate agent and flight attendant see the spare seat and want to put an upgrade or standby person in it. They don't understand that it was purchased purposely to be empty. Even when boarding I have to explain that it is two purchased seats but only one person. Yet, I have two boarding passes in hand. One time I lost the argument and had a devil of a time getting the airline to give a refund on that segment.


User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 3):
You're about to expire from anorexia I'm afraid. An BMI of under 23 is considered low, BMI under 18,5 should be hospitalized and fed intravenously.

Don't quite agree with that one. I'm 1.85m and weigh around 58kgs. BMI works out as 16.9 and I'm perfectly healthy albeit a little underweight admitly. Have no problems maintaining my Class 1 medical for flying


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 18):
Don't quite agree with that one. I'm 1.85m and weigh around 58kgs. BMI works out as 16.9 and I'm perfectly healthy albeit a little underweight admitly. Have no problems maintaining my Class 1 medical for flying

BMI is garbage. It doesn't take muscle mass nor frame size into account. Arnold Schwarznegger is considered obese by the BMI standard though clearly he isn't.



PHX based
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

Quoting Bobster2 (Reply 14):
You need to make the reservation by telephoning the airline. You CANNOT buy two seats for one person on any Internet Web site; if you try, the empty seat will be counted as a "no show" and you will lose it. Only the airline personnel can handle the special reservation properly.

Depends. I've seen airlines where you either write your name on one seat and second on the other. So 15A might be "John Public" and 15B might be "Second Public". That, or there is a drop-down box under special requests that says "Second Seat".

I would call anyway though, since the CSR might try to pull up the lowest rate available for the second seat.

AAndrew


User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 2):
Economy: 850 dollars

Business: 3100 dollars.

So there is a huge gap between those prices. I have to pay myself, and 2250 dollars difference is a lot for me.

I am going to Paris in november and the prices for that trip is:

Economy: 199 dollars.

Business: 1800 dollars.

I wish airlines didn't price like that. If your wallet is like mine, I don't think you got a choice, you gotta go economy. I suggest trying to go on a flight that nobody wants to go on. If only 60% of the seats are taken than I bet an open seat will mysteriously be next to yours. You might also want to check out http://www.seatguru.com/ and see what's the best seat for your long legs. If you got a wife or girl friend, pay her way and bring her along, normally they don't complain about being squished if they get a free ride.

If it makes you feel better, plenty of times I have sat next to guys your weight and I have survived, so you won't be like the first 270 lb person in economy.


User currently offlineLostmoon744 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4471 times:

I sat next to a HUGE woman. No joke. Really fat, but she was very nice and even apologized to me in advance that she was so big.

After she apologized, I felt less stressed out (although, still uncomfortable) and empathized with her. Fat people who infringe on other's spaces KNOW that they are making those people uncomfortable. They feel pretty bad themselves I am sure.

So, when she apologized, I felt OK sitting next to her. She was a very interesting person, and made the flight go by quicker.


User currently offlineBluewhale18210 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4426 times:

Quoting CPHGuard (Thread starter):
In my world, it would be the same, as letting people in wheelchairs pay extra for the handling, which i am sure, no one here would think is ok.

Why not? Airlines pay $30~$50 for the wheelchair agent pushing the guy to the gate...a 15 minute walk. If there's any better way to make money, I havn't heard about it. Also try to have 20 wheelchair on the same flight. Widebody or not it will seriously delay the boarding process. No, we don't charge an overt fee for wheelchair. They are just spread evenly among all the passengers.
I don't have problem with people who have hard time walking getting wheelchair service. I just think extra service should cost extra. Just think of the $15 aisle seat and $25 exit seat...

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 3):
You're about to expire from anorexia I'm afraid. An BMI of under 23 is considered low, BMI under 18,5 should be hospitalized and fed intravenously.

Don't know where you get your number from. For women BMI of 18 or lower means they no longer get their monthly thing. 14 or lower is "serious health risk". Not hospitalized, just gradually starved to death. I do believe a BMI of 10 is probably some miscalculation, though. Probably unit conversion, lb-kg thing? I am far to lazy tonight to dig up the book on nutrition though.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 5):
2 seats buys 2x the frequent flyer miles, not 1.5x as a business class seat does. Your 17" wide econ. seat goes to 34". One of the best premium econ seats in the air, Singapore on their 345 is 20". Delta goes to 21 in BE on their 777 fleet. You have just bought twice the luggage allowance. Assuming 44lbs allowance in econ, you now have 88lbs allowed. I believe domestic first is 60. So far, this seems like a no brainer to me.

Clarify...
1. You DO NOT get one extra mile for flying with extra seat.
2. You DO NOT get a single pound (piece) of extra baggage allowance.
3. You might have twice as much width, but the pitch stays the same.
All being said, you might still want to go for the extra seat just for comfort...

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 15):
I beleive that the airlines should offer a product between Economy and Business.

They do. For United it is called Economy Plus. For BA it is called World Traveler Plus (I think, correct me if I'm wrong.). For BR it is called ED, um, stands for Evergreen Deluxe (What a dreadful initial). Problem is, it sometimes interferes with the business class sales, as you said it is a big jump from Y to C. It is true that some people will go ahead and upgrade from Y to ED, but also some will downgrade from C to ED. The result? BR has a business class section that occupy the AFT section of their 744 Upperdeck. About 1/4 as many seat as their competitor in the market sells...



JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
User currently offlineAeroplan73 From Canada, joined May 2006, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 22):
I sat next to a HUGE woman. No joke. Really fat, but she was very nice and even apologized to me in advance that she was so big.

After she apologized, I felt less stressed out (although, still uncomfortable) and empathized with her. Fat people who infringe on others spaces KNOW that they are making those people uncomfortable. They feel pretty bad themselves I am sure.

So, when she apologized, I felt OK sitting next to her. She was a very interesting person, and made the flight go by quicker.

That is a very cool attitude to have in an unfortunate situation.

I know from personal experience, that sometimes people are heavy through no fault of their own.

I had some medical issues a couple years ago, and the medication caused weight gain and fluid retention. I went from 200 to 275 in short order, and each time I flew it became more and more uncomfortable. At one point I had to use a seatbelt extender, now that is embarrassing.

At my heaviest I just started flying business. I realized just how unfair it was to the people sitting next to me, eventhough I didn't really take up their space.

I always apprecaited people like you who showed some compassion once I explained the situation.



I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
25 Turkee : Depending on the size of the original poster, an exit seat might not be appropriate. I know that QF FAs will move passengers should they not be suita
26 CPHGuard : I get your point. People should pay for the serivce they require. The thing is, that i beleive it is illegal, at least here in Denmark, to discrimina
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