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Air Canada Orders A321s And A319s!  
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

AIR CANADA TO PURCHASE TWELVE AIRBUS A321 AND TWO A319 AIRCRAFT

MONTREAL, October 11, 2000 - Air Canada today confirmed its acquisition of twelve Airbus A321 and two additional A319 aircraft as part of its on-going growth and fleet renewal strategy. The aircraft will be purchased from Airbus. Air Canada will begin taking delivery of the aircraft in October 2001 for immediate deployment in its domestic and transborder markets. Air Canada thus becomes the first airline in Canada to operate the A321.

All 14 aircraft are from the Airbus A320 family, featuring operational savings due to commonality in training, crews and maintenance. All aircraft will be powered with CFM engines.

"Recent long term labour agreements provide us with the necessary stability to proceed with the company's growth. This is the first of a series of announcements on fleet expansion and renewal," said Robert Milton, President and Chief Executive Officer. "This acquisition will allow us to start our fleet renewal program to replace older generation aircraft such as the DC-9 and Boeing 737 aircraft. The introduction of Airbus A321 aircraft to our fleet builds on the many benefits derived from commonality of A320 family aircraft types. The new A321 fleet will allow us to increase capacity in a highly cost efficient manner on high density short to medium haul North American routes."

The 160-seat A321 will be configured 3x3 in economy and 2x2 in business class. Flying range is 4200 kilometres with a cargo payload of 3005 kg. The aircraft has a list price of USD$60 million. Deliveries will be taken October 2001 to December 2002.

The 112-seat A319 will be configured 3x3 in economy and 2x2 in business class. Flying range is 4441 kilometres with a cargo payload of 2141 kg. The aircraft has a list price of USD$45 million. Deliveries will be taken July and October 2002.

With Air Canada's acquisition of Canadian Airlines on July 6, 2000, the combined operating fleets of Air Canada and its wholly-owned subsidiaries currently number 372 aircraft. This includes 35 A319s, 47 A320s, 13 of which are in Canadian Airlines fleet, four A330-300s, with four more on order, and 12 A340-300s. Air Canada is one of the world's largest operators of Airbus aircraft. In 1990, it became the first carrier in Canada to operate the A320, and in 1995 it became the first carrier in North America to operate the A340.



Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Well I can't say that I am surprised, it's a shame that we have to look at more airbus plastic, but there is not much that can be done....lets hope they get a few more 767-300's that would be a nice order to see.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Just an observation, but today I noticed that the integration logo with the Canadian Goose on top and the AIR CANADA roundel on the bottom has almost entirly dissappeared from the Air Canada website, being replaced by just AIR CANADA. Interesting, because when the new website was put up, the integration logo was at the bottom of every page.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

More plastic to Canada...let's hope they won't fly too high as the sun could be a great great danger for them...maybe Airbus should install a warning if a plane flies too high: WARNING - SUN HEAT STARTS TO MELT AIRCRAFT, WARNING!
Slawko, you should go ahead and make that suggestion. Could bring you money...
More B763s are not likely as the A333 does the job much better. More A333s to come seems more logical...

A321 to AC, just great!

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

This isn't surprising, but it's just 14 aircraft for now... I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing more orders shortly, as there's around 90 732/DC9/F28 aircraft to be replaced.

User currently offlineBOS-CDG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

I think AC will soon be one of the best airlines in north America...

Great fleet, good alliance, sound management decisions and bets on innovations ahead of the competition...Bright days to come for AC....

E.


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

HEHEHE, I knew that would stir up a few comments...but I'd rather put a warning on the side of the plane stating the the passengers are about to board the worlds most expensive chain-saw.....hehehe Just joking around, no REAL insult intended, I personally love the 330-300.

Seriously though:
767, is perfectly suited for the flights like Sydney, Amsterdam, and Tel-Aviv. It has proven to be the aircraft of choice on these routes and many others, and ACP loves that airplane, the 333 is to big or does not have the reach that the 763ER does on some of ACP's routes and the planes will be with us for many years to come.

Oh by the way ACP has 2 767's on the boeing assembly line right now......

I also think we will be seeing a big order for Bombardier or Boeing for an F28/732/Dc9/Bea146 replacement, the A318 will not be ready in time and the A319 is way to big.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

The B763 won't have a golden future with AC though, as there are still A330-200s and soon -500s available which outbeat the B763's range by far.

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

True, but AC has so for show no intrest in the 332 and the -500 is way to far down the line, so unless Uncle Mitly announces an order for the 332 which i doubt he will do, but he may. The 763 will be around for at least 6-10 years.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2743 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Just to point out - AC has 4 767-300ERs on the line, so I think Slawko's right in that regard.

As far as the order goes, is anyone suprised? This order makes complete sense for AC as these aircraft meet their demand and go a step toward simplifying a diverse fleet.

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

I am totally not surprised except for the fact they would throw 2 319's into that order. I would assume the A321's are of the -211 series, or will they include the newer CFM56-5B# series powerplants? I would also assume this is not a fleet renewal order, rather an expansion/capacity gap filler order, as 321's don't strike me as aircraft replacing anything in the AC fleet. How many seats will be on the A321 and what markets are the most likely to be deployed on? I see them as a pretty versatile aircraft in AC's fleet. Thanks!

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

Anyone have any clue as to what routes they'll be used on? I'd love to see the A321 here in Boston. We don't get any, and despite Air Jamaica rumoured to start Kingston-Boston service, I don't know if the A321 can do that distance.

Thanks!

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4780 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

I think it is possible that the A321 will be used to replace some of the 767-200 (non ER models) that are used on domestic routes such as YYZ-YUL, YYZ-YYC etc. The range is similar and the capacity of the 767-200 is just a bit bigger than the A321. So it makes a lot of sense in that regard.

Don't forget that Milton wants to convert these 767s to cargo-only configuration (they are over 15 years old now). I would expect that the 321s ordered would be the highest MTOW models available...the lower models couldn't make it YYZ-YVR without cutting it real close.


User currently offlineC-GRYK From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 751 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

I do NOT think you will see the A321 of AC in BOS, if AC needed a capacity boost, it would use A320's instead of A319's, besides, there is added competition now on YYZ-BOS with American Eagle using the ERJ-135's. I think the 321's might be seen in New York but other than that, no East coast US market. Of course, this is all speculation and I have NO info from AC as to what routes the A321's will be used on, although YWG service is a given for maintenance.

Jeremy



Think before you type!
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

The B767-300er is the IDEAl aircraft for Canada;s market and needs. For Example, YYZ-MUC and YYZ-AMS are ideal routes for the 767-200er. However, should demand rise, the A330-200/300 family is way too big. Thus, a medium aircraft must be found. The B767-300/400er fits in real nicely. This example has applied to the new yul-fra flights.

The A321 will be utilized on routes currently flown with the 767-200. I.E the yyz-lax, yyz-sfo, yyz-las, yyz-mia and capacity needed upgrading routes such as yyc-ord, yul-lax, yul-sfo, yul-mia and yvr-bos.....

Mark



User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2216 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Icarus Airbus?  

Sammy


User currently offlineAca320 From Canada, joined Aug 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

well he did say that we would have more work here in ywg 321's ehh well now maybe we'll be able to FLY OUT OF WINNIPEG HUH anyway my little rant for the day I was checking flights into yvr last weekend and it was an excercise in frustration and yes oct 22 is the BIG DAY SO DON'T FLY unless you get to the terminal 3hrs before your flight leaves particularly if your flying cdn. Well I guess I better pay closer attention to the 321 we're working on here at phase (Air Jam) I'm sure theres one differance between our 321's and theirs and that is we'll have the cargo loading system ie pallets those poor buggers who have to unload by hand air jam's 321 in the 30c heat at Kingston.

User currently offlineAC_A340 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 2251 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

That'll be nice to see here in YWG. You can expect me to be on one of those flights some day.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Ok here is what I heard at Air Canada in YYZ this afternoon. The orders are being announced in three stages, today was stage one....the rumour is that tomorrow will be stage 2....The info i got from a few people was different every time so I will list what I heard so far......either it will be A318's and A333-200's or mor -300's, or it could be an announcement for the 717 and 763/764....either way stage two will be an interesting one.....

I also heard that they are looking to get a few 744's not 744F's the rumour is 2 more planes, I guess that would be to make up for the lack of capacity that came when they dropped the A340-600 orders and added a few to the 345's



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

I am lokking forward to seeing A321's here in YWG. Can't wait to get some pics of them... I am very impressed with AC's Decision today.
YWG777


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

1) Canadian Airlines International offered their last international flight from Calgary on Sunday October 8th with the dispatch of a 767-300 to London-LHR as flight CP096.These series of flights marks the end of international service offered by Canadian Pacific, CP Air/Wardair and Canadian legacy to Calgary.

2)The newly arrived 767-300 for Air Canadian is currently in the CDN hangar on Convair Drive getting interior mods done. It will then go back to the AC paint hangar to finish getting done up in the ACP interim livery. This was the aircraft that arrived as HB-IHT in Balair tail colours with the Air Europe cheatline.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

C-GRYK: Air Canada already uses the A320 on the YYZ-BOS route. Despite what their timetable may say, their A320's are a daily occurance during the Summer season (I can attest to seeing them several times over the course of the summer). I will concur that the A321 is not needed during the winter. Who wants to go from Boston to Toronto in January. That's like jumping from the flying pan to the fire (or vice versa, something along those lines  )?

FLYYUL: Unless these new A321's are the 93 tonne upgraded version, I don't see how the A321 could fly a BOS-YVR route. I definitely think an upgrade to an A320 is needed, as I don't mind flying 6 hours in a single-aisle jet, but not in an A319.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2165 times:

"I don't mind flying 6 hours in a single-aisle jet, but not in an A319"

LH423, may I ask why? Essentially flying in a 319 is the same, as a passenger, to a 320 other than the shorter wait to board, and the shorter cabin makes the average seat closer to lavs/galley/exit.

The 321's will likely fly trunk routes out of YYZ. YWG, YYC, YUL are probably the best bets. YVR-YYZ I'm less sure of, as it seems repositioning moves a lot of widebodies on that route. I suspect 320's displaced by the 321's on the trunk routes will likely be redeployed then.

Slawko, I'm very skeptical on 764's. I suspect we'll see more orders in the next few days or weeks, however, possibly a few from Bombardier, as well as Boeing, but I also wouldn't be surprised if a few more used aircraft were leased, as delivery time of new aircraft is an issue.

Aca320, glad to hear AC will use container loading, and also that they chose CFM engines. The idea of those V2500's were not appealing from reliability issues nor commonality. And as for bulk loading... well, I guess there's still fewer passengers on AC's 321's than C3's 320's... but container freight is preferable.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8002 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2160 times:

Given AC's policy of buying A319/A320/A321 models, I'm not surprised that they're buying more of these planes.

In fact, I expect even larger orders for these planes within the next few years, as AC phases out their older planes (like that noisy fleet of 737-200's they inherited from CP).

Now, the big question (pun intended): what will AC buy for longer-range aircraft? Will they buy more A340-500/600 models? I have this feeling that if Airbus can produce an A346 that has the range of the A345, expect AC to buy a fair large number of these upgraded A346's for YYZ to Asia service (like YYZ-HKG non-stop).


User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (13 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2163 times:

Udo, the A330 is in a different class than the 767, you can't compare. Now, does the A330 do a better job than the 777? Hmmmmmmmm, that's a mystery.  

Can the A340 do better than 747, hmmmmmmm.

Just wondering.


25 Post contains images YWG777 : What makes everyone think that the A321's aere going to serve AC western and central mini-hubs? I had no idea YYC was in this debait as well. Why woul
26 BA : Boeing747-400: What are you trying to point out? The A330 doesn't even compete with the 777!!!!! Thats the A340s job! The A340 competes with the 777!!
27 BA : Sorry I didn't mean to be mean or anything. Comparing an A340 with 747 is like comparing a 737 with a 767! Just tell me, how can you compare a A340 wi
28 Boeing747-400 : WHOA THERE! CALM DOWN THERE BA!!!! "The A330 doesn't even compete with the 777!!!!! Thats the A340s job! The A340 competes with the 777!!!" "Why in th
29 BA : Oops! Sorry!!!! I said it all wrong! Here is the right version: Why in the world did you think the A340 competes with 747? Because its got 4 engines?
30 L-188 : I don't think that the plastic melting isn't going to be the problem. Have you ever seen a piece of plastic shatter??? Woodsboy will vouch for me on t
31 Slawko : Right one L-188, Canada could be and should be producing it's own Commercial aircraft, we invented the term JETLINER, and we could have be great!!! I
32 Samurai 777 : I saw that A321 order coming a long time ago. I'm certainly not surprised at more A319s, either. AC does have a lot more aircraft on order down the ro
33 Fanoftristars : BA: As far as I know, the new A340-600s are supposed to be able to replace the 742, 741. The A340-600 has a 3class layout of 380, classic 747s 366. Th
34 Post contains images Dannyboy : Gee, one day away from flying and look what I miss! Well, A321/A319 doesn't surprise me at all. I certainly hope that they get some more '67s. It is t
35 MEL : I'm not sure why AC ordered the A340-600 in the first place. From my understanding, these aircraft were to be used on high-density international fligh
36 Post contains images Westjet_737 : Im happy to see that. I've always wanted to see an AC A321. And with the new 767's coming they will keep some boeing in their fleet. I would like to s
37 Boeing747-700 : Will these Boeing 767's they have on order feature the new flight deck of the 777/764? with the 777/764 cabins as well? Because if they do you can bet
38 Sammyk : If they chose the 777 style interior or cockpit (which is not officially available yet) then it would be uncommon with all their other 767s. So why wo
39 CPDC10-30 : I am pretty sure Air Canada will be going with the standard cockpit and interior so that the new AC don't stand out in terms of training and maintenac
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