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American Airlines In Michigan  
User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1657 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

I was just looking at the Route Map for AA and was wondering why AA doesn't serve LAN? I mean, even like 2-3 daily to ORD would give Lansing Area customers more options than NW and DL. There is nothing wrong with the service there, but living near by, I haven't seen much change in the landscape of service there since G4 announced and FlyI pulled out.

Any thoughts?


Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

AA used to fly to Lansing with ERJs from O'Hare 4-5 times per day up until 2000 or 2001. They cancelled the flights, IIRC, because they cited "rising energy prices." And that was 2000! Besides, AA covers the central Michigan market in a way they are satisfied with by having flights from O'Hare to GRR, FNT and AZO, plus DTW.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

I know why. But if I told you,.......oh, you know it goes

hint........the magic word here is Politics

safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 2):
hint........the magic word here is Politics

Care to expand? How would politics play into that decision?

I have a better idea as to why they pulled out of LAN ... maybe "economics?"



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22926 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6204 times:

This may be callous, but there's really nothing in Lansing besides MSU and the Michigan government. So while AA could pick up plenty of $200 connections to TPA, MCO, and CUN for spring break, I'm not sure what else would support the flight.


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6100 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
This may be callous, but there's really nothing in Lansing besides MSU and the Michigan government. So while AA could pick up plenty of $200 connections to TPA, MCO, and CUN for spring break, I'm not sure what else would support the flight.

What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city.


User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city

well AA doesnt serve Flint either

although i do hope MQ can reenter LAN with 4 ERJ135 flights a day to ORD and maybe send 2 RJ's to FNT too

i know wishful thinking



AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6030 times:

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 6):

well AA doesnt serve Flint either

although i do hope MQ can reenter LAN with 4 ERJ135 flights a day to ORD and maybe send 2 RJ's to FNT too

i know wishful thinking

AA flies to FNT from ORD 3x daily with ERJs.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2899 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city.

A few things to point out....

(a) Greater Flint is not just a bunch of closed auto factories. Indeed some of inner-city Flint rivals the poverty of many big cities, and the area has more than its share of economic wounds. However Flint itself still has business, industry, and well-off people.

(b) Like it or not, the geography significantly favors Flint, not Lansing. The location of DTW is physically a bit closer to the city of Flint (77 highway miles) than the city of Lansing (88 highway miles), but there's a lot more Detroit traffic to fight on the trip from DTW to Flint, so it's roughly a wash.

What's not a wash is the relative position for LAN and FNT to serve well-off suburban Detroit residents and businesses. To the north/northwest of metropolitan Detroit is Flint. To the west/southwest of metropolitan Detroit is Lansing...and Detroit Metro Airport. Were Detroit's main airport on a different side of town, Lansing could siphon off a lot of traffic from the west/southwest part of greater Detroit and Ann Arbor. Instead, DTW's location siphons some traffic that might rightfully belongs to Lansing.

Flint, on the other hand, benefits greatly from the geograpahic layout of greater Detroit and the relative position of DTW. The biggest economic growth engines in the region around Troy, Pontiac, Bloomfield Hills are faster, easier drives to FNT than DTW. Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW.


User currently offlineScintx From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 270 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5902 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
Flint, on the other hand, benefits greatly from the geograpahic layout of greater Detroit and the relative position of DTW. The biggest economic growth engines in the region around Troy, Pontiac, Bloomfield Hills are faster, easier drives to FNT than DTW. Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW.

I agree with this statement. I moved from Novi to DFW 5 months ago. I flew often and generally it was out of FNT. The airfares were generally better and the parking was far cheaper and easier to deal with. Flint has a great airport and has mainline service too. Side note here, my last NW DC-9-10 flight was DTW-FNT on January 2, 2005. Very special memory.



Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
User currently offlineFll2993 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

I think some airlins should start serving benton harbor again. Reasons for this near south beend and chicago. Near detroit grand rapids and lansing. Cheap to fly in. Whirlpool headquarters. Ad the tourist spot of st joseph. Northwest use to make daily flights from detorit to benton harbor. I think It is a great airport ready for bussines

User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
AA flies to FNT from ORD 3x daily with ERJs.

I didn't know they went to 3x daily...when did they do that?


User currently offlineAIR757200 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
I didn't know they went to 3x daily...when did they do that?

When they operate a normal operation, it's three daily..  Wink

Sidebar: FNT AE operations are contracted-out.


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Thread starter):
even like 2-3 daily to ORD would give Lansing Area customers more options than NW and DL

Soundly managed airlines do not choose which routes to fly for the sake of giving customers more options...

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Thread starter):
There is nothing wrong with the service there

In that case, why do customers in the LAN area need more options?


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5617 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 13):
In that case, why do customers in the LAN area need more options?

Because after 10 or so years, flying NW/DL Connection out of LAN gets old and I don't really want to drive to FNT (although they do have a nice airport). I do like to Drive to FNT if we are flyin FL though.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7565 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5564 times:

The drive to FNT from LAN is under an hour, its not an unreasonable drive either.

Farmington Hills/Novi closer to FNT than DTW? I don't think so. People greatly exaggerate how DTW is an inconvience. In reality it is one of the most efficient large airports in the country to get in and out of. FNT becomes a viable option if you live along the I-75 corridor in Northern Oakland county or along US-23 in Livingston County. Even then, only if you are flying to one of the nonstop destinations from FNT. Otherwise, its a wash as to whether there are any perceived savings over DTW, especially now that AirTran is flying from DTW.

That said, there are many airports within driving distance of each other that steal each other's traffic. Including passengers that will always end up driving to DTW no matter what.

BEH (Benton Harbor is done with commerical service, due to its proximity to other, larger airports (GRR, AZO, MKG, SBN) that effectively box-in its catchment area.
AA has limited resources in terms of available slots/movements from ORD, thus they feel there are better opportunities elsewhere. PLN has approached American to begin ERJ service over the past few years and been turned down.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2899 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
Farmington Hills/Novi closer to FNT than DTW? I don't think so. People greatly exaggerate how DTW is an inconvience. In reality it is one of the most efficient large airports in the country to get in and out of

I didn't say Farmington Hills and Novi were closer to Flint than Detroit. Here it is again::

"Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW."

I speak from personal experience because I use FNT 80% of the time when I'm going to those places. With no checked luggage and Avis Preferred service, I'm usually getting on US-23 about ten minutes after the door of the aircraft opens. Done it in as few as 8 minutes. A huge airport like Detroit simply can't come close to that. Add to this the difference in freeway congestion at peak times, and FNT is not an unreasonable option.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
Even then, only if you are flying to one of the nonstop destinations from FNT. Otherwise, its a wash as to whether there are any perceived savings over DTW, especially now that AirTran is flying from DTW.

Definitely true that Flint will probably always have a very short list of nonstop destinations, and a connection out of Flint versus a nonstop out of Detroit isn't going to get anybody from someplace like Novi to head to FNT.

I'm sure that the large majority of traffic from fast-growing Oakland County will probably always go to DTW rather than FNT. But from the perspective of Flint, the minority of Oakland County traffic using FNT is a big boost and is largely responsiblity for the rapid growth there in the past decade or so.


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2435 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

Mark my words... my crystal ball says:

  • AA will never serve LAN again in the next 10 years unless NW goes under or pulls out of LAN. UAX has ORD already covered.

  • B6 will never serve LAN. My bet is on DTW and/or FNT. GRR needs to sharpen their pencil if they want to woo B6.

  • LAN will never see nonstop service to BOS, LGA, JFK, etc. in the near future unless another upstart tries it with 6-7 flights per day, in which case NW will respond by starting their own flights. Then said upstart pulls out of LAN because of financial difficulties and a very low yielding route. NW then abandons route. (remember Indy Air?...)


I grew up in Okemos. We always drove to DTW for flights, and that was before FNT was an option. Half an hour drive to LAN, or an hour and a half or less to DTW. More options and much better fares at the time.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 14):
Because after 10 or so years, flying NW/DL Connection out of LAN gets old and I don't really want to drive to FNT

Also... how long you been drivin'? Your profile says you're 16-20.....  Wink



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5420 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
I grew up in Okemos

My uncle lives in Okemos...small world it is!



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
What's not a wash is the relative position for LAN and FNT to serve well-off suburban Detroit residents and businesses. To the north/northwest of metropolitan Detroit is Flint. To the west/southwest of metropolitan Detroit is Lansing...and Detroit Metro Airport. Were Detroit's main airport on a different side of town, Lansing could siphon off a lot of traffic from the west/southwest part of greater Detroit and Ann Arbor. Instead, DTW's location siphons some traffic that might rightfully belongs to Lansing.

Or if Lansing's airport were on the southeast corner of Lansing rather than the northwest it could also capture some of that Urban sprawl from places such as South Lyon, Milford, Brighton and Howell that may wish to use LAN instead of DTW. I-96, 275 in the afternoon is a nightmare for those people to get to DTW. I am sure I-94 between Ann Arbor and DTW isn't much better either.

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 10):
think some airlins should start serving benton harbor again. Reasons for this near south beend and chicago. Near detroit grand rapids and lansing. Cheap to fly in. Whirlpool headquarters. Ad the tourist spot of st joseph. Northwest use to make daily flights from detorit to benton harbor. I think It is a great airport ready for bussines

Never will happen. They are lucky they have Mesaba service as is and I think that is due to Whirlpool. Although St. Joseph is nice, I don't think it is big enough to support regular additional airline service except maybe seasonal. Who wants to go to St. Joseph from Oct - April with the lake effect snows?

Also, for the rich tourists in St. Joseph, I think a lot of them aren't crazy about driving through "the city on the other side of the river" Benton Harbor. The main road between St. Joseph and the airport takes you through parts of Benton Harbor that looks like some of the worst areas of Detroit. Again I think it was perhaps a bad location for the airport. Had it been built closer to I-94 or I-196 or at least south of St. Joseph there would have been potential for additional service.


User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
They are lucky they have Mesaba service as is

I believe they just pulled out of BEH



AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 20):
believe they just pulled out of BEH

I take that back. BEH WAS lucky it had Mesaba service as long as it did.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2222 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

Not many people know that there were two big infrastructure projects proposed in the 1970s that would have changed the catchment areas of FNT and AZO significantly.

The first project was an extension of I-275 from its current end at I-96/I-696 north, to meet I-75 in Clarkston. I-275 would have followed Haggerty Road north, then veered west through Commerce Township. Northwestern Highway would have also been made limited access, and extended northwest from its termination at 14 Mile Road and Orchard Lake, to meet the extended I-275.

If this freeway had been built (it was cancelled in 1976), it would have made FNT much easier to get to from West Bloomfield and Waterford, because residents of these cities headed for FNT wouldn't have had to go west to US-23, or east to I-75, to get to FNT.

The second project was a planned West Michigan regional airport, which would have been built between AZO and Battle Creek, replacing both cities' airports. This proposal was made when North Central still flew to Battle Creek, on their Chicago-South Bend-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek-Jackson-Detroit route. By combining the two cities' airports, planners hoped to have one airport covering both cities, instead of having two airports competing for passengers.

The airport was never built, North Central suspended Battle Creek after deregulation, and now many passengers from the east side of Battle Creek, or Marshall, find it's almost as easy to drive to Lansing, or Detroit, instead of driving to Kalamazoo.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 16):
"Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW."

Someone needs a geography lesson..Novi and and Farmington Hills to Flint is a nightmare commute.

It's a 20 min drive on 275 from Novi and F.H. to DTW, Flint on the other hand would be closer to an hour, with no traffic!


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
how long you been drivin'?

Who said anything about driving, the topic is about FLYING out of Lansing, so what if I am in that age group, that has nothing to do with it.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
25 2H4 : Rest assured, it isn't. 94 is awful all the way to AZO, thanks mostly to semi trucks that pass each other at 1 or 2 mph closing speeds and clog the f
26 Knope2001 : I don't need a geography lesson. I have several clients in that part of metro Detroit and use both FNT and DTW. I'm quite familiar with the geography
27 Dtwclipper : Perhaps from Bloomfield Hills, Macomb or Troy, but not from Novi....I live in Northville and am at DTW every week... No way getting from Novi to Flin
28 Knope2001 : If you're getting on 696 at rush hour to go from Novi to Flint, no wonder you say what you say. Also, please tell me where I ever said that it was qu
29 PSU.DTW.SCE : Knope, you are talking about a different thing, you are throwing in the rental car process, which I agree may take longer at DTW. However, for local p
30 Dtwclipper : Look, I live in Northville, and am at DTW every week, I make the trip in 20-25 min. Even during peak periods, it never takes me more then 30 mins. to
31 Knope2001 : You know I don't think we really disagree that greatly. Depending on where you exactly are in Northville, 20-30 minutes to the airport sounds reliabl
32 Isitsafenow : Keep the wallet in your pocket. Let me make a couple of calls and I will clear up your crystal ball a little. Give a day or so on this.... As Arnold
33 Post contains images Flyinryan99 : While you're at it safe...can you check and see if TOL-DFW is coming back too?? Would love to hear what your crystal ball is saying
34 AirCop : Call me crazy, but I believe service to LAN would work out. American Eagle already has a maintence facility at Marquette, instead of routing one of th
35 PSU.DTW.SCE : Are there still a few junked-out American Eagles Saabs rotting away in LAN still? I know there were a few being parted out/stored/non-airworthy up the
36 NASCARAirforce : Ummm yeah, because I lived in Livonia about two miles from the Novi and Farmington Hills border and it was definitely quicker to DTW than FNT. Had th
37 Post contains images N723GW : Hey TJ, long time no see. LAN isn't that great one way or another...YX completly pulled out of there, they were struggling to get more then 5 people
38 777ER : How would politics come in this when Lansing is the capital of MI? When I visited Lansing, I found it a nice city, but I only went to the base ball s
39 PSU.DTW.SCE : I disagree with this comment, since when AirTran would announce new routes from FNT, NW would copy them within a day. NW didn't feel threatened by th
40 Isitsafenow : Your learning. Greasing pockets has quite a bit to do with it. Lansing has a deal with DL that if the LAN-ATL doesn't make money, LAN will reimburse
41 MichiganMAN : I live in Sterling Hts, the suburb next to Troy. DTW all the way for me. I-75 south to I-94. and if I lived in Novi Or Farmington Hills, there is no d
42 AIR757200 : Here are some numbers: When I lived in Farmington Hills, I would simply take Merriman Rd to DTW and it took about 30 mins (19 miles), compare that to
43 NASCARAirforce : Especially if you live in South Farmington Hills or Novi and try to go through that I-275, I-696, I-96, M-5 Clusterf**k that is really bad in the aft
44 Flyinryan99 : So far, airnav.com isn't showing an ILS approach. Maybe they just installed it and it isn't live yet (except the approach lighting). I'll keep an eye
45 MichiganMAN : The closest airport with regular scheduled service to some parts of Detroit is probably Windsor is it not?
46 Tjwgrr : REILs (Runway End Identifier Lights)
47 AIR757200 : Wouldn't those be right at the end of the runway? I went to airnav and looked up DTW lighting system, and I'm assuming its: "approach lighting system
48 N723GW : FL announced FNT-LAS, and FLL or TPA ( I can't remember) and NW had it covered within a month. I am just saying NWA is very protective of MI. And I k
49 Hjulicher : I think that this is one of the most idiotic threads that I've read in a long time. Who cares which airport is more convenient/closer. It all depends
50 DTWAGENT : FNT gets alot of DTW traffic. For those business and leisure travelers that live in N. Oakland county and St. Clair counties, it is much easier to go
51 N723GW : I agree completely. To give my answer...AA wouldn't be able to fill a mailine jet one way or another. Simply because of the presense of papa bear NWA
52 Post contains images Tjwgrr : AA in Michigan.... Remember the AA Mad Dogs and the AA 727's in GRR? Boy I miss those.....
53 Post contains images Isitsafenow : You forgot the Air Califonia 737's in AirCal colors for a few months in the 90's. safe
54 KingAir200 : Where was AA's gate at GRR? I'm pretty sure it was on the A concourse, and I think I remember using it once. I want to say that it was red and blue on
55 Post contains images Tjwgrr : Yeah- wish I had taken some photos of those rare birds.... AA was at Alpha 5 at GRR. Now occupied by NW.
56 KingAir200 : OK, thanks. I thought I remembered that. It would be hard to imagine NW without A5 now.
57 RedTailDTW : Northwest uses A2, A5, and A6 right? BTW, how is the status on the new gate B6?
58 Tjwgrr : Yep, NW uses A2, A5, and A6. The jetbridge on A6 can actually be used for two aircraft parked in different spots on the ramp- NW does this with their
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