Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2403 posts, RR: 6 Posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7310 times:
Searched and was surprised that no one posted this, but Piper unveiled their first ever jet aircraft today at NBAA 06 in Orlando... Production starts in 2010, but I wasn't able to get more info... Will get more tomorrow...
Cessna also unveiled 3 new aircraft cabins... CJ4, a new XLS, and an awesome new widebody cabin aircraft... Here are a couple pics of the Citation Widebody... notice the cabin height in relation to the people inside.
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 4407 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7311 times:
Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
Beech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7296 times:
Not a big fan of Pipers but this Jet is very intrigueing. Single engine in the tail from what it looks like? Very interesting...
Awesome to see Cessna going full strength into even more BJ markets.
I wonder if Cessna would ever build a High wing Citation? (since they are a high wing manufacturer for pistons)
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 5750 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7286 times:
Quoting Corey07850 (Thread starter): Searched and was surprised that no one posted this, but Piper unveiled their first ever jet aircraft today at NBAA 06 in Orlando... Production starts in 2010, but I wasn't able to get more info... Will get more tomorrow...
Let's not forget that Piper sells the HA-420 as well, so their dealer/service network now has two jet aircraft on offer.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
Corey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2403 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7281 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1): Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached spin
It actually looks more like a mini DC-10 with a single engine in person
Jdl1527 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7256 times:
Slap 2 engines on the fuselage and now were talking
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1252 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7236 times:
I like the looks of the Piper jet! It does look like a DC10 tail, I'd love to see on in person.
Beech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7229 times:
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1): Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached
CannibalZ3 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 385 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7064 times:
BlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1697 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6993 times:
800 lbs of payload for the Piper? Is that normal for a 6 seat biz jet?
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4542 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6968 times:
Hmm single engine jet? I am not so sure.
While I am not too technically inclined when it comes to the mechanics of aviation, jets being heavier that a single engine prop, what happens with engine failure?
Pikachu From Bhutan, joined Feb 2002, 88 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6962 times:
Give the reliability of jet engines I guess Piper is willing to take the risk with a single. Big jets are heavy but keeping that in mind an A330 has a better engine out glide ratio than a C172.
Captaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 4542 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6958 times:
Quoting Pikachu (Reply 14): A330 has a better engine out glide ratio than a C172.
Yeah i have heard of the A330s, in fact isn't true that a A330 landed quite successfully without engine power?
I am sure Piper knows what they are doing... just my little concern.
BTW gotta love a.net. I went to Pipers site just check out more on this jet, and the only thing is that it will be unveiled at the NBAA show. Guess what, we (a.net) already been there done that..
AirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6914 times:
Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 11): 800 lbs of payload for the Piper? Is that normal for a 6 seat biz jet?
Is that with full fuel? Because if it is, then it's at least 200 lbs more than many other small jets, which makes it very attractive for people wanting to take a good load with full fuel. 800 pounds is enough for nearly 4 people and their bags. Other light jets have a full fuel payload of about 600 pounds, which is about 3 people.
If the opposite is true, people plus fuel cannot exceed 800 pounds, then this jet is not very good IMO.
Rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1755 posts, RR: 11 Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6908 times:
Quoting Captaink (Reply 13): Hmm single engine jet? I am not so sure.
While I am not too technically inclined when it comes to the mechanics of aviation, jets being heavier that a single engine prop, what happens with engine failure?
Ask an F-16 pilot.
Or a Pilatus pilot, for that matter (OK, a turboprob, but turbine powered nonetheless). Seems OK for them.
Is a jet engine really heavier than a piston?
Interesting at any rate! Does the Piper count as one of those "VLJs"?
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6896 times:
The Piper's going to focus heavily on owner-flown jets -- the shortest overall step up from the Meridian. So with one engine it will cost considerably less, probably be a bit slower (but easier to handle and easier to insure with less experienced pilots). So the 800 pounds with full fuel isn't bad -- it's roughly a 4 seater, same as the Malibu and Meridian.
KSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6691 times:
I like the look of the Malibujet as well. Like a Falcon 7X minus the two other engines. I hope it becomes popular.
Doug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2728 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6639 times:
Quoting Rampart (Reply 18): Is a jet engine really heavier than a piston?
As far as LBS per SHP is concerned, a turboprop is much lighter than a piston. Jets are (and most modern turboprops) are much more aerodynamicly clean than single pistons. The reltaively dirty DHC-8-100 is supposed to be able to get 2.5 nm per 1,000 ft with both feathered (I think thats around 15:1). A swept wing might not do as well (not sure), but those wings look fairly straight.
Falcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6597 times:
You can add Raytheon to the list of announcements with the creation of the Hawker 900XP and Hawker 750 as successors to the Hawker 800XP. NetJets is the launch customer.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 3191 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6554 times:
Quoting 727200er (Reply 20): I really like the look of the piper Malibujet NP-10
Piper's teaser website reportedly suggests that the jet would be called "FREEDOM".
Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 17):
Is that with full fuel? Because if it is, then it's at least 200 lbs more than many other small jets, which makes it very attractive for people wanting to take a good load with full fuel. 800 pounds is enough for nearly 4 people and their bags. Other light jets have a full fuel payload of about 600 pounds, which is about 3 people.
It is believed the Piper Jet will be powered by one Williams FJ44 engine. The Cessna CJ4 will use Williams' FJ44-4 with 3,600 lbs of thrust.
Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 23): You can add Raytheon to the list of announcements with the creation of the Hawker 900XP and Hawker 750 as successors to the Hawker 800XP.
With the advances in composite technology as used on the B787, I wonder if Raytheon could leave behind their unpleasant experience with the "2000" and be persuaded again to come up with a single-jet "STARSHIP" using Williams FJ33 and with broadly similar specs as the Cirrus. Aren't attempts to divest of RAC still fruitless?
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 5750 posts, RR: 7 Reply 25, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6541 times:
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 24): Piper's teaser website reportedly suggests that the jet would be called "FREEDOM".
That would be a real disaster, since Spectrum Aeronautical has a competing offering already named "Freedom." As a coincidence, the Spectrum Freedom will use the GE Honda engine, and Piper will do sales/support/distribution for the HondaJet.
[Edited 2006-10-22 08:11:48]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
KSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 6 Reply 26, posted (3 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 6538 times:
Will jets like the Piper-Jet and Cirrus' offering be for personal use, or do you think we will see them also enter the corporate jet market. If the speed is still pretty good on the Piper-Jet I'm sure it must cost less than a jet with two engines.
DEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 3191 posts, RR: 2 Reply 27, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6418 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 25): That would be a real disaster, since Spectrum Aeronautical has a competing offering already named "Freedom."
I wonder if Piper was late in copyrighting the name. But given that "Piper Jet" is already emblazoned on the engine, they would most likely stick with it. And speaking of disasters, what could be more disastrous than having a sole prototype crash, sadly taking the two pilots with it? Perhaps that explains the renaming from "33" to "Independence" - to avoid the stigma of the terrible accident.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 28645 posts, RR: 70 Reply 29, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6337 times:
I am not sure about having the engine directly in back of all roof area.
At some point there will be antenna's will be mounted on it, and if they break off, or more likely, pick up ice that sheds off it is going right into that intake.
There is a reason why the entire roofline of the 727 is a critical surface for deicing purposes.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
CRJonBeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 6 Reply 30, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6295 times:
from what i've heard, piper and honda were going their separate ways. makes sense since piper was assisting honda in marketing/sales of the HA-420.
from the piper brochure...
Dimensions
33'9" long
16'6" tall
44'7" span
Performance
max cruise speed guaranteed: 360ktas (+5%/-2.5%)
full fuel load on standard equipped guaranteed: 800lbs (+/-5%)
max range guaranteed: 1,300nm (+/-5%)
Specs
6 seats guaranteed, 7 optional
optional lav, entertainment center, utility loading configs
auto throttle (optional)
engine trend monitoring
FADEC engine
FIKI (approved for Flight into Known Icing)
performance computer
RVSM certified
my guess for the flight deck would be avidyne, following in the steps of all their other glass cockpits
Boeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 34, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6107 times:
I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.
I think it is a very poor, non creative attempt by Piper.
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 5750 posts, RR: 7 Reply 35, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6078 times:
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 34): I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.
Boeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 36, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6070 times:
Quoting N328KF (Reply 35): Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 34):
I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.
CRJonBeez From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 317 posts, RR: 6 Reply 37, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6007 times:
2.2 million isn't as bad as you make it out to be. the guarantees in performance, especially compared to the other VLJs can warrant the price, especially from piper. the largest payload in the class, along with longest range. 3rd fastest behind the Phenom 100 and Eclipse (380 and 370 respectably). 2.2 million will get you a used beechjet, which has a tried and true program, but used regardless. many buyers want new. cheaper operating costs never hurt either. i'm not predicting success with the program, just playing devil's advocate to your opinion.
Cruzinaltitude From United States of America, joined May 2004, 415 posts, RR: 2 Reply 38, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5929 times:
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