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PHL-CEP-EIS Meetings Start Tonight (Oct. 18)  
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Since the original thread was either deleted or achrived; I thought I'd post a reminder thread.
Anyway, the first of 4 Public Open House Meetings regarding the PHL-CEP-EIS will take place tonight (Oct. 18) at the Tinicum School Gymnasium.

The Public Meeting list again for all interested parties:

Wednesday, October 18 – 7:00 PM to 8:30 PM
Tinicum School, gymnasium
91 Seneca Street
Essington, PA, 19029

Thursday, October 19 – 7:00 PM to 8:30 PM
Hanby Middle School, cafeteria
2523 Berwyn Road
Wilmington, DE 19810

Wednesday, October 25 – 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM
Atwater Kent Museum of Philadelphia
15 South 7th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19106

Wednesday, October 25 – 7:00 PM to 8:30 PM
Eastwick at the Meadows
6630 Lindbergh Boulevard
Philadelphia, PA 19153

Thursday, October 26 – 7:00 PM to 8:30 PM
Haddon Township High School, cafeteria
406 Memorial Avenue
Westmont, NJ 08108

More info. can be found at http://www.phl-cep-eis.com/public-outreach.asp
and at http://www.phl-cep-eis.com

I will be attending tonight's meeting.

Any other Philly A.netters going to either tonight's meeting or the other one's listed? USAir330, are you still going?

Expect tonight's meeting to be the liveliest since it's being held in Tinicum (where airport-expansion opposition is at its highest). Will it resemble that College football brawl in Miami last weekend... who knows?

[Edited 2006-10-18 16:12:01]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

Here’s the low-down on what was presented last night at the Tinicum School:

1. I inadvertently misread the post-card invite (I am on PHL-CEP’s mailing list) I received and thought that there would be a presentation meeting complete w/discussions & Q&A. In reality, the presentation was on Open-House format that essentially did not involve a formal presentation of sorts. There will be a formal presentation sometime in the Summer of 2007 on the CEP matter.

2. The Open House arrangement started with an 11-minute video talking about PHL’s present conditions and the needs for expansion as the first display item. The video included some good footage of planes taking as well.

3. After the video, there were 22 presentation boards laid out in a semi-circle with various charts, listings, aerial photographs, and the 3 proposed layouts/alterations (which was I was most interested in). Additionally, there were either FAA personnel and/or PHL-DOA people at the presentation boards to answer questions and discuss matters.

The main difference between the 3 layouts presented at the Open House vs. the layouts presented a year ago at the CEP public meetings is that there’s a little more detail to what additional changes (beyond just the runways) would take place for each layout as well.

For spotters, the good news is that Fort Mifflin Road (which stretches from Enterprise Avenue to Fort Mifflin & Hog Island Road) WILL REMAIN as it is regardless of which layout is ultimately chosen. The bad news is that in 2 of the proposed layouts; Hog Island Road will be closed. The Midfield layout lists Hog Island Road as ungoing a ‘minor relocation’. Also, UPS would be relocated to the northwest corner of the airport (change will involve a relocation of Tinicum Island Road) in all 3 schemes.

Since the CEP’s website will not include these charts until AFTER the final Open House on Oct. 26 in Westmont, NJ; I will give you a list of noticeable changes/impacts:

8-26 East Layout involves:

5 runways:
8-26 extended eastward to a total length of 7000 ft.
9L-27R unchanged at 9500 ft.
current 9R-27L to become 9C-27C and extended to 12,000 ft.
new 9R-27L will be constructed at a length of 9,103 ft.
17-35 extension to 6500 ft. would remain

U.P.S. – Relocated
Tinicum Island Road – Relocated
Hog Island Road – Closed
Island Ave. – Relocated

Terminals A-West & East – Unchanged
Terminals B through F – one continuous building with relocated concourses B through G (to allow for parallel taxilanes between concourses) with an additional E-shaped terminal situated east of Runway 17-35. Such terminal would be connected via busses and/or an underground Automated People Mover (APM). Estimated total number of gates would be in the range of 145 to 150.

SEPTA’s R1 Airport line would not be impacted but could be extended to the additional concourses.

8-26 West Layout involves:

4 runways:
8-26 extended westward to a total length of 7000 ft.
9L-27R unchanged at 9500 ft.
current 9R-27L to become 9C-27C and extended to 12,000 ft.
new 9R-27L will be constructed at a length of 9,103 ft.

Runway 17-35 would be eliminated.

U.P.S. – Relocated
Tinicum Island Road – Relocated
Hog Island Road – Closed
Island Ave. – Relocated
Airport Marriott Hotel -Relocated

Terminals A-West & East – Unchanged
Terminals B through F – eliminated in favor of 2 to 3 detached terminals connected w/APM. Total number of gates would range from 152 to 157.

SEPTA’s R1 Airport line would end at Terminal A.

Midfield Layout involves:

4 newly located runways (all existing runways would be eliminated):
8L-26R at 8100 ft.
8R-26L at 2000 ft.
9L-27R at 10,500 ft.
9R-27L at 8,200 ft.

U.P.S. – Relocated
Tinicum Island Road – Relocated
Hog Island Road – Minor Relocation
Island Ave. – Relocated
Airport Marriott Hotel –Relocated
I-95 Airport ramps – Major Reconfiguration

All existing terminals would be eliminated in favor of one Terminal A located near I-95 with Concourses B through J located midfield; all connected via APM (similar to ATL).

SEPTA’s R1 Airport line would undergo a major relocation.

Needless to say, most of the public in attendance were negative on the whole project. Many of them were asking AIRSPACE-related questions (which is not part of the CEP) mainly because the last FAA meetings that took place focused on that issue. A couple of ladies (both of them being Havertown residents) griped about the 17-35 extension project (which is independent of the CEP) and about the increase of air-traffic flying over their homes in the last 2 years; the latter I’m guessing is due Southwest coming to PHL and NOT because of 17-35 (which hasn’t been extended yet). The underlying complaint seemed to be ‘quality of life’ issues and property values going down as a result of increased noise. Others were asking about utilizing PNE or Willow Grove to take additional commericial aircraft. One individual suggested building a brand new airport somewhere in the vicinity of southwestern New Jersey (between Bridgeport & Vineland).  Wow! Good luck trying to get any of those proposals off the ground.

Many people who attended were a bit surprised/disappointed that these meetings only deal w/only one aspect of PHL (be it airspace, CEP or 17-35) expansion and not a combination. One FAA official kept mentioning that each aspect is handled by different branches of the FAA.

I asked one of the FAA officials whether any of the airfield upgrades address the possibility of Group VI Aircraft (A380) being utilized at PHL… especially since UPS & FedEx have placed orders for cargo versions of the type. The official told me that A380 movements were not addressed in any of the schemes but most of the proposed runway spacings are far enough to allow A380 operations. That being the case, the main issue would be the spacing between taxiways. I reminded the official that if they’re going to redo the airfield anyway; why not kill 2 birds with one stone, especially since one potential A380 user (UPS) has to relocate their facilities.

The below-link is from today’s Delaware County Daily Times article on last night’s Open House meeting:
http://www.delcotimes.com/site/news....D=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18171&rfi=6
From the article:

So without details on how the planes will fly in and out of the airport, or how UPS will disappear, the residents who attended the presentation did a lot of grumbling as they toured the circle of easels. Carolann Straubinger of Havertown grumbled the loudest.

"It’s like they’re building a skyscraper and they have the basement done, but they don’t know what the top is going to look like," Straubinger said.


Worth noting: the article erroneously states that UPS’ facilities vanish; all 3 schemes show a relocated UPS building in brown at the northwest corner of the airport.

One of the Havertown opponents, I mentioned was indeed Carolann Straubinger. I was standing nearby when she made her above-quote.

If you can, I would suggest checking out one of the remaining Open Houses.

[Edited 2006-10-19 17:56:56]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Thanks very much Chris for your efforts on the summary. Was there any indication from the FAA as to which of the 3 CEP options was most probable at this time?

User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1865 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1806 times:

PHLBOS On the midfield scenario, 8R-26L shows a 2K ft. r/w...I am assuming this is meant to say 12K? A 2K r/w at this airport would be useless...Thank you for the report

User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

I'm really liking the midfield approach(alternative C). I think a lot of airports are currently moving towards this design and seems to work rather effectively. This design seems most likely to reduce delays in the long term in my opinion. Having the runways close to the terminals but spread out so simultaneous landings could occur is a great idea.

User currently offlineOphila From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined May 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Thanks 4 the summary.....could not get over there last night...I am in agreement that 2birds should be taken care of w/ regards to tha accomodations for cat iv eqp.....they have to give to get....give ups something worth there wild and then some & then you will get that precious land that they own & u need!

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1741 times:

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 3):
PHLBOS On the midfield scenario, 8R-26L shows a 2K ft. r/w...I am assuming this is meant to say 12K? A 2K r/w at this airport would be useless...

Thanks for the heads-up on that. The 2K is indeed either a typo. from my jotting the info. from the display chart or a typo on the display chart itself. When the exhibits come on-line after next week via the CEP's website; I'll verify.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
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