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Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!  
User currently offlineCoelacanth From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 15299 times:

It's Boeing's race to loose at this point . Also worth mentioning is the A350 and its delayed launch . The guys at Airbus , without doubt , have a lot on their plate .

Coelacanth

 old 

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...ile=Business_News2006102044047.xml


Boeing aims to keep Airbus at 'bay'
Web posted at: 10/20/2006 4:40:47
Source ::: AFP
shanghai • Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.

"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."


[Edited 2006-10-20 04:32:41]

148 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 15203 times:

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project,

Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3186 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 15190 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?

Well he isn't exactly being loud. They do need to publically state every once in a while that things are ontrack. It's important to remember that Airbus's woes have shaken not only confidence in Airbus, but in Boeing as well. As long as it isn't a rubbing it in their face, and sticks to facts, and isn't every other day (ala Leahy) then it's a good move IMHO.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 15145 times:

I agree; they are just making a comment, but I also agree that all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08, as they originally said they would and that would speak louder than any words they could possibly say. And those who particularly need to know it - the airlines - would hear it loud and clear.

User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 15093 times:

I agree with you guys , as a public company they have to occasionally come and state what and how the progress is with their high risk - high payoff efforts specially when due to A380 troubles the opinion of shareholders and market analysts can get cautionary regarding boeing aswell as it is also in the process of developing a new aircraft .

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9116 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 15045 times:

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
Boeing aims to keep Airbus at 'bay'
Web posted at: 10/20/2006 4:40:47
Source ::: AFP
shanghai • Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08, as they originally said they would and that would speak louder than any words they could possibly say. And those who particularly need to know it - the airlines - would hear it loud and clear.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! "Victory is mine!" - Stewie Griffin, and anyone working for Boeing once this occurs  Wink



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21420 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 15009 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! "Victory is mine!" - Stewie Griffin, and anyone working for Boeing once this occurs

He never wins though. His grand schemes are foiled by lack of planning or inability to control the scale of the endeavor or the unintended consequences or the unforeseen obstacles. Sounds more like Airbus right now...
'

[Edited 2006-10-20 05:43:59]


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14851 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?

Like Leahy?  Smile


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14748 times:

US NEWS did an interview With Randy Baseler who talks about airbus troubles , 787 etc here -

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/061019/19boeing.htm


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2038 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 14704 times:

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

That was a fair comment and informative to those who have a stake in the B787

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14634 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
That was not necessary and rather cheap.

I dont think that it was cheap . Not necc. maybe but nothing cheap , It was an accurate assesment of when Airbus is going to land its cometition in the market and that factually is going to be several years ( atleast 4) after the EIS of the dreamliner . I think talking about market strategies and how one company's market outlook varies from the other is perfectly ok it is when one starts to trash other's product or gain mileage out of other's current woes is when it gets out of hand. I think Boeing has so far shown a good calculated response to questions regarding the 380 delays and production troubles at airbus and have taken the conversation to their own products and their strategy and market outlook . It is perfectly Ok for the PR and program guys to boast of their own market strategy and the competance or timing of the product while it inst all that ethical to trash the other's product or current state of affairs .


User currently offlineM27 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 14571 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

We don't know the context of these statements. It seems the "we are confident we won't have those problems" was in response to some question, but we don't know exactly what that was. Also the "They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace" could be a response to a question such as-What do you think of the new A350XWB from Airbus? Perhaps there was more to this answer than was quoted.


User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1368 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 14479 times:

I think the most interesting part was the last paragraph:
Now that the 787 Dreamliner is underway, what's the next airplane you have to think about? We're thinking now about the follow-on to the 737. ...
pointing out that they are looking at the tradeoffs of price, maintenance costs, and fuel economy.


User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 14377 times:

I thought that Mr. Baseler's (Randy's) comments were very fair and even-handed, even though he is obviously very proud of Boeing, and rightfully so.

I'm pleased that Boeing believes in healthy competition, because a decrepit Airbus really doesn't benefit anyone. A monopolistic market stands a good chance of stagnation -- until the next big upstart overturns the apple cart.

If, as I think it will, Airbus regains most of its health in a few years, then we could soon have the kind of competition between Boeing and Airbus that could be to the advantage of all -- the passenger, the airline, the manufacturer, and everyone in between.

Being arrogant or complacent in this business -- something that, perhaps, some people in management at various companies were, in the past -- doesn't usually lead to good things. Boeing cannot afford to sit on its laurels in a rapidly changing economy, and I'm glad to see from Randy's comments, as well as from other comments coming from elsewhere in Boeing's executive suites, that it isn't about to do so.

Well done, Boeing. Well done. Keep up the good work.

[Edited 2006-10-20 08:55:51]

User currently offlineRheinbote From Germany, joined May 2006, 1968 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14210 times:

That suggests that Boeing is confident they can recover from the schedule slips they had so far. Word is that Alenia currently is the weak link in the fuselage structure supply chain. Boeing has reportedly dispatched an additional 200 engineers to Italy. Things like this are inevitable in a program of this magnitude and are no drama, especially given the comparably high level of innovation. It would be quite naive to assume that Boeing will execute exactly to plan. Nevertheless, based on what I know at his time I'd regard speculation on overall 787 program delays of more than a few months as "wishful thinking".

User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 14112 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):

Like Leahy? Smile


Where is the Big mouth, hiding behind a rock somewhere? I am starting to miss him


User currently offlineCoelacanth From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13931 times:

 checkmark 

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
I agree; they are just making a comment, but I also agree that all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08,



Agreed Irish,
It's a simple plan for Boeing , don't F it up and deliver the 787 on time !!! Another question is how much Boeing can take advantage of Airbus's weak Widebodies segment . Which is soft since Airbus have very little to offer until , [possibly] , - 2014 !

Coelacanth

 old 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-10/20/content_713052.htm

Boeing 787 set to fly past rival A350 in China
(Shanghai Daily)
Updated: 2006-10-20 11:15

Boeing Co's new 787 Dreamliner is expected to beat rival Airbus SAS 350 jetliner in the Chinese market as the company has secured 60 orders from Chinese airlines, Boeing officials said in Shanghai yesterday.

"It's a competitive market but Boeing is expected to take more than half of the market (on such planes) as we have the advantage in timing," said Michael Bair, vice president and general manager of the 787 Program at Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

Robert Laird, BCA vice president of China sales, said China is set to be the world's fastest-growing aviation market in the next 20 years with an annual nine percent growth in passengers and 15 percent in cargo.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13845 times:

http://81.144.183.107/Articles/2006/...ssenger+747-8+order+this+year.html

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.

"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

I wouldn't get to emotional about it. Earlier this year Baseler said he expected 747-8i orders this year ( http://81.144.183.107/Articles/2006/...ssenger+747-8+order+this+year.html and he was "confident in the campaigns going on” with 25 airlines and sell 600 747-8's.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...&s=747-8i+boeing+expects#ID2439125

Now the situation has changed, the 747-8i has been further improved. Boeing is happy with where they are, the airlines show overwhelming interest and the first orders for the 747-8 passenger are expected early 2007.

What?


User currently offlineWingman From St. Vincent and the Grenadines, joined May 1999, 2103 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

Really Keesje, nowhere in the printed world does anyone at Boeing ever make such a comment. You just pull these fantastic lies right out of thin air. Are you a graduate of the John Leahy School of Drivel? Why just check out the link to the right of the linked "proof" to see what you should really be concerned with...that would be John Leahy word for word saying Boeing are fools and that he'll sell 1600 380's. Great sales guy once upon a time but now reduced to inane comments that are based on delusion.

User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13704 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

I agree, I bet Airbus didn't expect the current problems at a similar point in the Superjumbo program. And Boeing might even not know the timebombs simmering in the Japanese plants. But let's keep our fingers crossed they do deliver the B787 on time, Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2004 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13661 times:

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

In this case perhaps, but

The 737NG was several years behind the A320 family

The 777 was several years behind the A330/40/MD11...and Boeing used this time to make a better plane

The 787 is several years behind the A330 (especially the A332), which has had an effective monopoly of this segment for several years

The 747-8 would have been several years behine the A380, if Airbus hadn't cocked it up so badly!

Pride cometh before the fall...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13627 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?

You forgot to say the 767 was several years after the A300  butthead 

Thank god we have Airbus or Boeing would never be able to come up with a fresh idea


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2038 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13597 times:

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 21):
Pride cometh before the fall...

Indeed. I don't mind a little pride now and then and a proudful blanket statement like the one above ("They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace.") is not that bad. It could have been way worse.

I'm not up in my arms about this, it just struck me as a cheap shot. Which it is.

Maybe Airbus will respond to a little prodding by Boeing with redoubled efforts to get back on track..

cheers

Asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5675 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13567 times:

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

Since the 777 was delivered in 1994:

737NG off the ground and doing extremely well vs the A320
772LR/773ER - drove the A340 off the market. Airbus should just close up tthat line as far as the airlines are concerned.

So your ridiculous assertion that Boeing hasn't gotten anything off the ground since the 777 is ludicrous. If I were you I would be worried about the bloated wire-challenged A380 and the A350hwatever non-starter.

I guess this is your idea of fighting back since your beloved Airbus became a victim of its own hubris and arrogance....demeaning the competition that has been putting together a string of sales vistories since early 2005.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJohnny From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13568 times:

@ Clickhappy

"isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?"

Isn´t that cool that since the start of the A32x-Family Airbus has sold more A32xs as Boeing 737s..?

"You forgot to say the 767 was several years after the A300"

- yes, but only later than the old A300B2/B4s...
- the A300-600 came out 1984 and the A310-200,which is part of the A300/310-Family and competes with the B767-200 came out in 1982...

I guess it is fair to say that both A and B came out later with some models, that is normal!


25 AirbusA6 : My point is that the original quote from Michael Bair is dubious, as there's no set time for when an aircraft should be in service. Is I wanted my 25
26 Floridaflyboy : That's not cheap. That's simply fact!
27 Post contains images Glideslope : Words of Wisdom for the Flag Waivers.
28 NYC777 : Uh, 787 delivery date to ANA is April 28, 2008. 18 months from now.
29 PolymerPlane : Apples and oranges. You're comparing Randy's comment which the he does not have any control whatsoever to the end result, while Bair has control over
30 Mptpa : Face it...it is a fact! Let the customers and market decide, and the Market has spoken. Boeing has to give an assessment of how heir projects are goi
31 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Right, Keesje. Once someone makes a statement, they are forever after bound by it. NASA originally projected the Apollo moon landing for 1968, so by
32 Revelation : Some more truthful words of wisdom: "It is the very future of Airbus which is in the balance." - Louis Gallois What can you say? The airliner industr
33 Zvezda : While the WhaleJet always carried more market risk than the B787, the latter always was more technically ambitious and carried more technical risk. Th
34 Post contains images PlaneHunter : If he is wrong he will have to eat his words - but why not showing confidence when everything seems to be fine? Definitely not - considering that the
35 Post contains images Coelacanth : Lets not forget the 747-8F , which happens to be doing quite well for an over the hill ....... 40 plus year old . Coelacanth
36 Keesje : There are no Two Boeings Randy's en Mike's. Two years ago Mike Bair said 2008 and 2009 Boeing would produce 95 787's, production rate for 2008 and 20
37 Ikramerica : You do know that isn't true, don't you? I mean, are you just guessing because you assume it must be true, or have you looked at the numbers and disco
38 Zvezda : It would be cool if it were true. Will you show us the numbers?
39 LTBEWR : There is need for the heads of Boeing to be resonably optimistic to keep up orders from and deliveries to customers and keep the shareholders happy wi
40 Post contains images Revelation : Zvezda asks, Ikramerica delivers!
41 Areopagus : Boeing 707 first revenue flight: 1958 Airbus A300 first revenue flight: 1974, 16 years later, and 32 years ago. For perspective, one of Airbus's pred
42 Post contains images Adria : Boeing has made many low level statements in the past (including the one when the A300 was coming to the market ) and time always proved them wrong s
43 Supa7E7 : August 2007, first flight expected September 2007, flight testing begins .... April 2008, first delivery That is a tight schedule. Very impressive
44 Stitch : A more accurate term would be "unavailable" as 2005 was never a proposed delivery date for the 787 nor 2010 for the A350XWB (though it might have bee
45 Post contains images Thebry : WOW! Nothing speaks louder than facts, eh Johnny I've often wondered why people keep claiming what Johnny claimed -- he's not the first to suggest th
46 Post contains images MCIGuy : Technically, Boeing has been in business as Boeing since 1916. Of course they weren't making jets the whole time.... Congrats to Boeing and here's to
47 BoomBoom : Perhaps because the schedule doesn't call for one to be assembled yet? Where is the "word" coming from? You provide no source.
48 N844AA : Ha, somehow I'm not surprised. I know, that's such an interesting statistic. What's the most widely produced civil aircraft of all time? DC-3? Piper
49 NYC777 : Proof has come from other posters on this thread which I will not re-hash since you wish to live in your own dreamworld.
50 Adria : Since you obviously don't know how to read I'll sum it up for you...they were talking about two generations of the 737 family...
51 PlaneHunter : The B707 wasn't Boeing's first commercial plane. That's not Airbus. Both manufacturers have bashed the competitor's products - though Boeing has a lo
52 Post contains links and images Coelacanth : If Boeing can deliver on the 787 on time and as promised . Then Boeing will have a few Sweet Spots to savour on . 1st , the late EIS for the A350 . An
53 Post contains images Ikramerica : Because the A320 was targeted at the 737 (and MD80), the poster made a claim about the 737 and the A320, and the 737 family was not "complete" until
54 Post contains images Beech19 : Though i agree this might be a good idea in some situations. I don't beleive he said anything attacking Airbus. RFLMAO!!! w00t!!! Bring it on! Here w
55 Bringiton : The Streiff comment on " It may take upto ten years to...." is starting to make some sence now as the saga unfolds although i still believe that airbu
56 Stitch : Because that is what Johnny did when he said "families", though I imagine he only wanted to compare 737NGs to A320s because that improves the A320's
57 Adria : The 777 came four years later and Boeing used the additional time to make it more competitive (like Airbus did with the A332 against the 767 or the A
58 Ikramerica : And one can't just ignore the 733/734 (+752) because they competed with the A320 family for some time until Boeing was delivering the 737NG. If you j
59 Nudelhirsch : Late EIS is not the biggest problem out here. In fact it gives Airbus production slots while Boeing's are taken for a while. It also gives Airbus tim
60 Post contains images Stitch : Why? If Boeing never sold another 733, 734, and 735 the day Airbus announced the A320, fine. But that didn't happen. Airlines still bought 737 Classi
61 PlaneHunter : There's no strict 10 years advantage because the A320 family has been updated (e.g. engines just to name one aspect). Btw - don't forget what you sai
62 Post contains images PolymerPlane : Wow... now we are complaining about Boeing making improvement?... . Bair said the production was going to be 95 2 years ago. Now, considering the dem
63 Post contains images TeamAmerica : You are comparing several cases where new-design aircraft bettered an older rival against a case where a derivative of an old design matched a newer
64 Beech19 : Is that 118 aircraft (78/year) or is that 118/year(up from 95/year) for the first 1.5 years? None of these numbers match eachother... i'm confused...
65 787engineer : Actually the biggest advantage for the 777 isn't simply the additional years. The 777's biggest advantage is that it's development coincided with the
66 Post contains images Asturias : Fact? No it was a cheap shot, completely unnecessary. However if that's what Boeing needs to make itself look good, then whatever. I don't care. I'm
67 Co7772wuh : With the help of EU government Launch Aid , of course ...
68 Post contains images PlaneHunter : As I said - they can easily rely on their products. Remember the "Chinese copy"? So which Boeing models missed performance targets? PH[Edited 2006-10
69 Beech19 : Airbus makes them look good. They don't need to say anything. Um... every Boeing aircraft has been launched meeting or exceeding every promise set by
70 Post contains images Asturias : They did, which makes them look bad. Source please. Oh, so why don't they? Heh, yeah I remember. Also a cheap shot. I'm sure you agree. Excuse me, wh
71 Areopagus : Neither was the Caravelle the first commercial plane (or even jetliner) from Airbus's antecedents. Airbus has a video commercial on the FI site claim
72 Post contains images N328KF : I have an idea — let's start referring to any pre-2005 Boeing aircraft produced in Wichita as "Stearman" aircraft.
73 Post contains images Areopagus : Cool!
74 Irishpower : Remember guys--Who owns Boeing?----The Shareholders. This is a comment for Boeing's stockholders. This isn't a comment to ridicule Airbus--at least no
75 Adria : Yes if good for you means just enough... The 737NG has a new wing and cruicial systems so from that point of view this isn't just a warmed up 737. La
76 Post contains images AutoThrust : Thank you for doing another A vs B Thread, thats great!    Btw maybe some Boeing Die-Hard -Fans can stop hyperbole and come down then we could talk
77 BoomBoom : it's not so much that Boeing caught up, it's that Airbus fell behind by embarking on the disastrous A380 program. Airbus should not count on Boeing m
78 Post contains images Coelacanth : AutoThrust, My apologies . However , in my and the rest of some A-netters defence , this was not meant to flame anyone . It is a very significant dev
79 Post contains images Steeler83 : Hmmm... that does sould more like Airbus... "lack of planning or inability to control the scale of the endeavor or the unintended consequences or the
80 Post contains links and images Coelacanth : More pressure on Team Airbus ! Coelacanth http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/10/20/AR2006102001152.html UPS says evaluating Airbus A380 or
81 Post contains images Dougloid : There's a bad moon rising for sure...I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop.
82 Post contains images TeamAmerica : Umm...the A350 prior to XWB also had a new wing and crucial systems (e.g. engines!) so your point is not made. Boeing was successful taking the 737 a
83 Aither : If i may ask : how do you know that ? do you know some people at Airbus to back up this statement ? So far the strategic mistake has been on the A350
84 Post contains images Coelacanth : As a result of the A380 ! The A350 was a mistake because Airbus was unable to dedicate the adequate time and resources required on the A350 to comple
85 Aither : The entry into service of the A330/A340 was in 1994. Do you believe Airbus should have started a new program 4 years later to replace these aircraft
86 Stitch : I'm not so sure. The original A350 would have covered the A332, A333 and A343 markets, as well as put pressure on the 777-200. That's not bad, especi
87 Osiris30 : Have you even read this thread? The Boeing fans are the least of its problems. ROFLMAO! The 380F is going to be cancelled.. not by UPS, but by Airbus
88 Calags : Considering the situation at Airbus today I think it makes sense defer the A380F in order to free up engineering resources and cash flow while they f
89 Osiris30 : Well with UPS squaking, that really only leaves Fedex that has shown any interest in the damn thing. And while Fedex can soak up some frames, the 380
90 PlaneHunter : They do - and show confidence. It's neither a claim nor unsubstantiated - source is the market. Which carrier has complained about missed performance
91 BoomBoom : If that were the case they would have gone forward with it.
92 Post contains images 787engineer : My point was that it isn't just a matter of waiting a few years. It's a matter of pushing for and waiting for certain new, applicable, technologies t
93 Rheinbote : Probably not. If ">90% of development work done on time" had been done properly, the remaining 10% would have gone smooth. If Airbus had tackled all
94 Rheinbote : At least partially, because the underlying paradigm change in the design approach was demanded by the (engineering) management: capture the threshold
95 Post contains images Coelacanth : Hi Stitch, I was primarily trying to demonstrate that Airbus was simply too pre-occupied with the A380 to devote enough time on any project ! Due that
96 Adria : Ok there are only to options 1.) you don't want to understand me or 2.) or you are not able to...I never said the 737NG is an "underachiever" but sin
97 AutoThrust : Bullsh*t, the 737NG still dont have fly by wire or such a sophisticated systems like the A320. With the 777 Boeing cought up in terms of technology l
98 Post contains images Osiris30 : Agreed. However; I'm not sure it would move them that much further from break-even. There are extra costs with the 380F version and we really don't k
99 Adria : and my point is that althought the NG is good (and I never said it is bad compared to A320-but people like you don't read carefully) Boeing didn't ta
100 Bringiton : Ofcourse boeing made many many mistakes the recent ones being the production problems in the 90's however after they adressed some of the managment is
101 Zvezda : You're trying to judge Boeing by a ficticious standard. Market share is not the objective. Profit is the objective. Boeing chose to pursue profit by
102 Adria : Of course ROI is more important than market share I was just referring to the 777 and A340 that's why I took this measurment (which is not strictly c
103 N844AA : Can we stop with this ridiculous canard? Yes, the 767-400 sold minimally, but it was a relatively simple, low-cost stretch that kept two important Bo
104 Osiris30 : No actually you said (and I quote) So it's not actually myself that "don't read carefully". It's you who can't figure out what your statement is. Tho
105 TeamAmerica : Then there is the third option, which is that you mistated facts and I called you on it. Your exact words were "far from good". B737NG is a warmed ov
106 Post contains images 787engineer : My mistake, that's what I get for posting so late at night . Ultimate load is 1.5x design limit load, and it broke at 1.45x which is ~96.7% of ultima
107 BoomBoom : SOURCE: For Airbus, Making Huge Jet Requires New Juggling Acts, WSJ May 27, 2004.
108 Post contains images Stitch : That might not be a bad idea. A larger A389F would carry more even more freight the same distance of a 747F as well as offer the package carriers eve
109 Asturias : So does Airbus. PIA Asturias
110 Zvezda : A stretched A380F would carry even less freight (by weight, which is what counts about 99% of the time) that the planned A380F. OEW would be higher a
111 Stitch : Which doesn't bode well for an A389 being a winner as a passenger plane, either, I guess. They'll be able to pack the passengers in, but if she only
112 WingedMigrator : You must be assuming constant MTOW. That has room to grow, from 590 to 650 tonnes. The main gear can have a fifth bogie without significant structura
113 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 'switch' was made in the summer of 2001. First metal was cut in January 2002. Therefore, the notion
114 Osiris30 : No it doesn't. It proves the teams where FORMED in Summer of 01.. I doubt they reached a conclusion in 6 months and did all the design in that amount
115 TeamAmerica : With respect, I disagree. According to the article cited by BoomBoom, the switch to aluminum was made after some major design work had been done (the
116 BoomBoom : Who said it was a "mid-stream" design change? That's just something you made up. However, it's clear from the article that the switch came very early
117 Post contains images Ikramerica : So? Being loaded with technology does not mean that a plane is superior. It just means it's loaded with technology. Is it the lack of FBW or the othe
118 Post contains links AvObserver : Granted, Boeing may miss its target to get a 747-8I order this year but never have I read they'd sell 600 747-8s, overall. This might be possible ove
119 Ikramerica : I think the 600 comes from 50% of the overall VLA market for pax and freighter aircraft over the next 20 years from today, which is somewhere between
120 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Actually, Austrius, it was a bad journal article..from what I know, the -200LR has been performing exceptionally well for Boeing... cheers friend....
121 Post contains images Asturias : Thanks for the heads up Jacobin! I am not surprised that the T7LR has been a victim of bad journalism in this case.. Journalists can rarely tell the
122 Post contains images Coelacanth : This swapping of copper to aluminum wiring has been greatly over looked . Many trades man or people familiar with aluminum wiring , would look the ot
123 PlaneHunter : Showing confidence while delaying important projects several times does not increase credibility... As others have already pointed out, the example i
124 Joni : I think what Randolph ("Randy"!) Baseler meant was that they could be in negotiations that could result in that many sales, if Boeing won all the cam
125 Asturias : There is no official displeasure with the performance of any plane, from either Airbus of Boeing. So stuff that argument already. You don't have a po
126 Boeing767-300 : Ironically and PlanesNTrains Dave will be able to back this up but GE Transportation Systems (ie Locomotive Division) tried Aluminium wiring for the
127 Rheinbote : Again, there was no switch. Aluminum wires were selected quite early in the program and had been evaluated for other Airbus aircraft as well. Again,
128 Rheinbote : No, a public source may serve as a reference, but it doesn't necessarily prove anything. Many independent sources may provide evidence, but still no
129 Post contains images Zvezda : If the source provided by BoomBoom is correct, then the switch to aluminium was early enough in the program (before the design of wiring harnesses) t
130 Post contains links and images PlaneHunter : http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+integrate+A350+technology+on.html http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...5/05/03/197483/The+long+hello.html h
131 Post contains links TeamAmerica : Are you saying you know this to be a fact, or is it just your interpretation? And I again respectfully disagree. I repeat: According to the article c
132 AirSpare : I don't think that was the problem. The WSJ said that there were different "final" designs of the plane in use. Hence the harnesses didn't fit. The v
133 Rheinbote : Factual knowledge. The "wiring mess" is largely due to a loss of configuration control and oversaturation of change management, both from a plethora
134 Asturias : Bad journalism. Asturias
135 TeamAmerica : I accept your word on this. Can you share any more detail? What is the exact nature of the installation problems? For example, is it that the spaces
136 N844AA : Is this your opinion, or can you provide examples of poor journalistic practices by Flight International? For you to demand facts and then dismiss po
137 Post contains images PlaneHunter : How are direct quotes by airline officials "bad journalism"? Btw - Flight International is one of the most reputable and respected magazines in the i
138 Zvezda : In the summer of 2001, Airbus would not yet have detailed designs for wiring harnesses. They would have good estimate of how much total wiring would
139 Rheinbote : I have done so in similar threads before. I second your assessment that problems mostly lie with physical installation. While you were writing your r
140 Post contains images TeamAmerica : I was thinking of the wireways and bulkhead penetrations, not the wiring harness. The sizing of such facilities would be in accordance with the expec
141 Post contains images Beech19 : Here we go... Listen Up: (all numbers straight from the Boeing website). 747-300 Basically a 747-200 with the 23ft longer upper deck. Same everything
142 Asturias : They're about teething problems that have been sorted out, so if that is supposed to be something to support your claim that Airbus doesn't deliver w
143 Osiris30 : " target=_blank>http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles....html Something interesting in the first article (dated 5/5/06): Amazing how little information
144 Ikramerica : Joni, please provide the link where Randy discusses 600 orders, offers, conversations, etc. for the 748. I have never heard this before. The 600 numb
145 N844AA : Actually, that's not bad journalism. Possibly they're misleading sources for what was asserted, but unless what was reported was inaccurate at the ti
146 PlaneHunter : It seems you haven't read carefully...the article (even certain direct quotes) disproves what you claimed earlier: Btw - don't slam the messenger whe
147 Post contains images SparkingWave : I disagree 100% with your comments. Perhaps Boeing was actually very generous - they could just have easily said that the 787 would never have a dece
148 Joni : I was referring to Reply 17 in this thread and offered a way to explain what he could have meant. The links in that post, however, don't contain thos
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