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Norwegian.no Just Cancelled My Flights!  
User currently offlineReifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1361 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4194 times:

The time has come, there's something worse than Ryanair...

I booked a flight WAW-MXP on Norwegian.no for NEXT SUNDAY (in 10 days!). As a routing I always check my flights on checkmytrip but got an error message.

So I called Norwegian, well my flight is cancelled since 23sep! As they say, they sent me an email and tried to call me several time. I asked for email-adress and phone number they have in the booking, and they are right, but NEVER EVER they sent an email or called me.
They also say the amount was booked back on my CC, which is NOT the case (I just checked again online).

I asked the agent to connect me to her supervisor, she put me on hold and then said she can not connect me, I have to write to customer relations and she gave me an email. She also said they will be back on monday and taking care of my email may take up to "several days" (yeah I fly on Sunday and need a flight!). I then said that I need this to be solved and that if she can't help me there must be someone in the office I can talked to, but then they just hanged up...

I told them they have to rebook me on another airline, they just said "NO WAY, we don't do this kind of things". I would like to take the Alitalia flight instead, which departs at the same time.
I'm aware Norway is not EU, but as the flight departs and arrives in the EU, EU-regulations shall apply and they have to rebook me or not?

What you guys think and would do?

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

According to article 5, paragraph 1, part a, the airline is required to offer you the provisions covered in article 8 (don't you just love these cross-references in laws?) - and article 8 states that you can chose between the complete refund within 7 days, alternative transport to your destination at similar conditions and at the earliest possible time, or alternative transport at a later time should you wish.

You can read the whole thing here...
German: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/de/.../l_046/l_04620040217de00010007.pdf
English: http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/.../l_046/l_04620040217en00010007.pdf



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineDYflyer From Norway, joined May 2006, 676 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

In this case there are two points. First is that DY claimed they cancelled the flight on 23. September. In witch case Article 5, paragraph 1, part c(i) comes into play (basically you have no rights, except your money back, since they cancelled more than two weeks prior to scheduled departure).

However since you claim you never got any notice it is Article 5, paragraph 4 that is interesting. It is the operating carrier that has the burden of proof that they tried to contact you. So basically if they can prove they tried to contact you (and it would surprise me if an airliner didn´t have any routines for this since the rules are so clear), you get nothing.



Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1274 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Since when Norway is not part of the EU ?


Fly easyJet
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1846 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 3):
Since when Norway is not part of the EU ?

you should go back to your books ! Norway has never been part of EU  crazy 


User currently offlineFeroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 3):
Since when Norway is not part of the EU ?

Since always. It is, however, a member of the European Economic Area and the European Free Trade Association. Hence, in the UK, at passport control there are queues for
1. EU, EEA and Swiss nationals
and
2. Other nationals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association

[Edited 2006-10-20 22:50:16]

User currently offlineJuniorSpotter From Sweden, joined Mar 2004, 225 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 3):
Since when Norway is not part of the EU ?

Dood! Have you been sleeping your way through school?  Big grin Not joining the EU is one of few smart things the norwegians have done.  Wink (Note: inter-country-kidding)



If something can go wrong, it will.
User currently offlineReifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

Quoting DYflyer (Reply 2):
In this case there are two points. First is that DY claimed they cancelled the flight on 23. September. In witch case Article 5, paragraph 1, part c(i) comes into play (basically you have no rights, except your money back, since they cancelled more than two weeks prior to scheduled departure).

This is not correct. This paragraph only mentiones that I'm not entitled to the fee of in this case 250 €, which I'd get if they inform me within 2 weeks prior the planned flight.

But they still need to accomodate me on another flight if I wish so, which is clearly stated in Article 8. (Article 5 (1) says that in case of cancellation (no matter the date I was informed) I have the right to get what is written in Article 8.).


User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1274 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3892 times:

I was probaly sleeping, and was so sure about it as they also signed "schengen agreement" etc. Anyway for the travelling public there is no difference about EU or not EU when travelling to Norway. For flights departing from EU country the EU rules apply.


Fly easyJet
User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 8):
I was probaly sleeping, and was so sure about it as they also signed "schengen agreement" etc. Anyway for the travelling public there is no difference about EU or not EU when travelling to Norway. For flights departing from EU country the EU rules apply.

I believe you're correct on this one.

Norwegian has been growing rapidly over the past 4 years, and I simply sense that this rapid traffic growth has resulted in operational inefficiencies for the airline - let alone passenger rights or not. The anger and frustration of stranded passengers is what this airline is facing more of today as a result.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

Don't you just love clearly written, easily understood EU regulations?  crazy 

User currently offlineDYflyer From Norway, joined May 2006, 676 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

Quoting Reifel (Reply 7):
But they still need to accomodate me on another flight if I wish so, which is clearly stated in Article 8. (Article 5 (1) says that in case of cancellation (no matter the date I was informed) I have the right to get what is written in Article 8.).

I still don´t agree with you there. I´m not sure you are reading the hole paragraph. Notice the "and" at the end of Article 5 paragraph 1 part a, linking it to part b and then again to part c witch end with "unless: (i) they have informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before scheduled departure". This means that both part a (and through that Article 8), part b and part c does not apply since they cancelled the flight more than two weeks prior.

Quoting JuniorSpotter (Reply 6):
Not joining the EU is one of few smart things the norwegians have done

I´m not sure that was smart either Big grin. Through the EEC we pay as much to the EU as we would if we were members, and we get less back than if we were member. Also we are forced to follow most of the rules the EU makes, but has less influence on their design. It is actually a joke here in Norway (but with some truth to it) that Norway is more EU-adjusted than any EU-member.



Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 9):
Norwegian has been growing rapidly over the past 4 years, and I simply sense that this rapid traffic growth has resulted in operational inefficiencies for the airline

It is actually the other way around. DY is now "too" efficient in it´s operations. The fleet is now so utilized that a small "snag" can have big influences on several routes. DY is still not big enough to be flexible and move planes around, or have a "spare" plane.

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 9):
The anger and frustration of stranded passengers is what this airline is facing more of today as a result.



Unfortunately this summer has not been to good with DY regarding this. They had several new planes that was delivered late. A few of their planes went "tech", and when some of the wet-leased planes went tech it became problematic. When Israel attacked Lebanon, and many nations tried to get planes to evacuate their citiesens, it was also difficult for DY to get wet-leases on short notice. Now when all the planes are in the fleet things are going much better. DY closed the route WAW-MXP because it wasn´t profitable, and didn´t show any signs of improvement in the near future. DY is to small to support a non-profitable route.



Life is like a book. If you don't travel, you only read one page.
User currently offlineLN-KGL From Norway, joined Sep 1999, 1039 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Edit:
I see the reply from Ikramerica has been deleted - therefore I have deleted my answer to him.

[Edited 2006-10-21 20:44:57]

User currently offlineReifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1361 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting DYflyer (Reply 11):
I still don´t agree with you there. I´m not sure you are reading the hole paragraph. Notice the "and" at the end of Article 5 paragraph 1 part a, linking it to part b and then again to part c witch end with "unless: (i) they have informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before scheduled departure". This means that both part a (and through that Article 8), part b and part c does not apply since they cancelled the flight more than two weeks prior.

Well we seem to have different opinions here. I still think they need to accomodate me. Everything else would mean that any european carrier could cancel a flight 2 weeks prior departure and would have to do nothing but to refund the ticket. If one considers that people book trips to Australia, expensive hotels, important business trips and so on, this would mean airlines could do what they want and cancel a flight as soon as they see it would not be profitable. This is exactly what happened in the US and also in a smaller scale in Europe. And this is why the regulation has actually been adopted.
The LBA, which is the institution in Germany which enforces this regulation, does see it like me on page 5:
http://www.lba.de/cln_004/nn_53936/S...tionFile.pdf/Informationsblatt.pdf

Actually, sorry to say this, but you are not reading the paragraph right. This article says that I get a) to be rebooked (which is basically said in article 8, as this links to there) *AND* b) that I get phone calles, vouchers etc if applicable (this is basically said in the article 9 which it links to) *AND* c) that I get some money, UNLESS (and the "unless" only refers to c) ) I was informed more than 2 weeks prior departure. That meens that the still need to provide a) and b).
Also, in my case, I was informed 9 days prior departure. They claim to have me informed, which is defintely NOT the case. Article 5 (4) says that they need to proove that I was informed, and I rather doubt they can.

But still, even if they would have me informed 4 weeks prior the flight, they would still need to offer some alternatives, even if they have to book me on another carrier. That's exactly why this regulation exists.


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