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SAA Expansion To North America  
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

I read today that SAA is looking for two widebody aircraft to open a new route to the USA. There have been rumblings for months about SAA opening new routes to North America. Representatives from SAA have at sometime over the last few months visited SAL to evaluate it as tech stop for their new flights. SAA is also looking for four narrowbody aircraft,which is likely related to the start-up of their new low-cost carrier at the end of the month. Does anyone have information when the 2 or 3 A343E aircraft that were leased to Jet Airways are scheduled to return? Speculation continues on the possibility of CPT-MIA restarting as well as ORD and YYZ,which would likely use SAL as a tech stop,at least north-bound.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6532 times:

Considering how horrendous connecting times are at IAD for west coast cities, SAA needs to do something to compete with Delta's ATL-JNB service. The IAD flights, while high in O&D passengers, I'm sure, can't fill the entire plane. Some connecting passengers are needed.

ORD would be a great feed for Star Alliance customers. Best of luck to them whatever they do!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25390 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 1):
Considering how horrendous connecting times are at IAD for west coast cities

Flight times have been rescheduled this winter. Flight departs IAD at 5pm along with UA's first Atlantic wave allowing for nationwide connections. Flight returns to IAD at 6am.

The adjustment however does hurt some regional connections ex JNB which were possible prior.

As apparent it can be quite hard to align schedules on intra-hub flying. Often something must be sacrificed.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

Quote:
As apparent it can be quite hard to align schedules on intra-hub flying.

Good point!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6348 times:
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Quoting 9252fly (Thread starter):
Does anyone have information when the 2 or 3 A343E aircraft that were leased to Jet Airways are scheduled to return?

As far as I know the planes are supposed to come back to SA about March-April 2007. The sub-lease was signed in 2005 for 2 years.


Rgds

SA7700

[Edited 2006-10-21 09:15:59]


When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5568 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6167 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Thread starter):
Speculation continues on the possibility of CPT-MIA restarting as well as ORD and YYZ,which would likely use SAL as a tech stop,at least north-bound.

I think ORD as being a Star hub is more likely than MIA.


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 6139 times:

YYZ, with what equipment? source?

Cheers,
Kaz



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User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6057 times:
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Miami dioes have two advantages, its has been served before by SAA to great success. Geographrically speaking it can be flown from CPT nonstop both ways by A343 or A346 or even the 744, again.

User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5929 times:
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Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 7):
Geographrically speaking it can be flown from CPT nonstop both ways by A343 or A346 or even the 744, again.

Which make me think that SA is looking more intently at ORD. Why would they:

Quoting 9252fly (Thread starter):
Representatives from SAA have at sometime over the last few months visited SAL to evaluate it as tech stop for their new flights.

when a non-stop CPT-MIA route is on the cards?


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5864 times:
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There have been numerous rumors floating around SA that they will recommence MIA-CPT service at least 3-4 times per week. The concern is that there will not be sufficient O&D traffic to keep this flight profitable. When SA last served MIA, they were allied with AA for domestic feed. Current partners UA and US do not have nearly the lift to/from MIA to provide enough connecting traffic to support what O&D demand there might be.

There have also been persistant rumors about ORD. In fact, just prior to the move from ATL, there had been considerable speculation that the ATL flight would be shifted to ORD. Many U.S. staff were dissapointed when it was announced that the service would be moved over to IAD instead. Some still hold out hopes for opening up ORD

Personally, I don't think there's enough demand in the slower months to support both ORD and IAD, especially if ORD is routed over SID. It would be far smarter to route over DKR to generate additional traffic.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Thread starter):
I read today that SAA is looking for two widebody aircraft to open a new route to the USA.

Would SA be intrested in AC's A345's for future expansion to North America?



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineAirportplan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 8):
Which make me think that SA is looking more intently at ORD. Why would they:

Because ORD is one of the largest Star Alliance Hubs on earth and has much, much more feed than IAD.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5702 times:
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Quoting Airportplan (Reply 11):
Because ORD is one of the largest Star Alliance Hubs on earth and has much, much more feed than IAD.

CEO Khaya Ngqula at one stage talked about possible ORD / MIA service alongside with the current SA services to IAD and JFK. I do realise that ORD has more feed than IAD - my guess is as good as yours why SA chose IAD as a gateway to the States, instead of ORD.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

9252fly, do you mean SSA as the techstop? Or maybe Ihla do Sal? I think SAL is a bit less well located (and would be an odd stop).


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User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
9252fly, do you mean SSA as the techstop?

Some time ago I looked at the flight route mapping website and discovered CPT-MIA routes over northeastern Brazil. As far as I know,no tech stop is required for that route. When looking at a potential JNB-ORD route,it looks like SAL and DKR would be closer to a direct routing if a tech-stop is required.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 4):
As far as I know the planes are supposed to come back to SA about March-April 2007. The sub-lease was signed in 2005 for 2 years.

Thanks SA7700 for the information,I knew someone had to know. Was the lease comprised of two or three aircraft? If these aircraft are due to be returned early next year,then it's unlikely SAA will need to source the required aircraft on the open market?


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5611 times:
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Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
Was the lease comprised of two or three aircraft? If these aircraft are due to be returned early next year,then it's unlikely SAA will need to source the required aircraft on the open market?

Only a pleasure 9252fly.  Smile It is three aircraft - ZS-SXD, ZS-SXE and ZS-SXF. The need for additional aircraft will most likely depend on the number of new routes SA are planning to start. ORD / MIA and EZE comes to mind...


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5448 times:
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PA110,

Marginal O & D in Miami is untrue. When SAA started that route once a week in 1992 it didn't have any feed, except what passenger naturally connected to it in Miami. Then it went twice a week then three until daily, this all with a 744. AA didn't start feeding SAA until 1996. Remember alliances were still in their infancy until the mid 1990's. In 2000 they went to Atlanta with Delta and we know the rest. History shows development of this route as one from low expectation to overwelmingly successful results. Feed from United and Usair is marginal but it should not chabge the fact Miami-CPT works. IF feed is so important then Charlotte should be the next destination fro SAA in the USA.


User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

why doesnt SAA make the tech stops in Sal, Cape Verde (SID) when they flew from ATL


Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3278 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
I think SAL is a bit less well located (and would be an odd stop).



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
When looking at a potential JNB-ORD route,it looks like SAL and DKR would be closer to a direct routing if a tech-stop is required.

SAL (San Salvador, El Salvador) would certainly be an odd tech stop location.



.......
User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

i think they mean Sal, Cape Verde they used to have a tech stop there but discontinued it. I don't know why they stopped it but i would like to see them restart it again. <script LANGUAGE='JavaScript' SRC='http://www.airliners.net/photoLink.inc?id=0225429' TYPE='text/javascript'></script>


Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3956 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Well considering that SA had a 2-3 history at IAH, there might be a slight chance that IAH could re-considered. That said, most here seem to believe that the flight will be 'Oneworld' driven thus ORD is frequently mentioned and I would probably agree.

While I was not living in Houston at the time, from old timers (ex PA employees who worked the flight), SA's IAH service was doing fairly well and the reason for the closing of the route was political. The city of Houston (as many US cities were doing during the Aparthied era) divesting itself with all things South Africa including air links and the closing of the S.Af consulate there.



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User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

So long as non-stops aren't in the cards (why a non-stop isn't worked for JNB-JFK, I just don't get), ORD seems by far the best choice for SAA. CPT-MIA makes little sense, JNB-IAD makes little sense, likewise, because of the JFK flight. Too bad they don't have any A340-500s to do this all non-stop.


"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32783 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 21):
CPT-MIA makes little sense,

Miami-South Africa had 220 daily passengers in 2005, and Miami has the largest South African community in North America. It definitley makes sense.



a.
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8453 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4533 times:
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Quoting Walter747 (Reply 17):
why doesnt SAA make the tech stops in Sal, Cape Verde (SID) when they flew from ATL

When I flew to ATL we stopped there. I came back from JFK so that was non-stop.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4476 times:
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Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 21):
So long as non-stops aren't in the cards (why a non-stop isn't worked for JNB-JFK, I just don't get),

The lift of pax and cargo in-and-out of DKR are quite profitable for SA, however the IAD-JNB service will go non-stop in the near future.


Rgds

SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
25 Sflaflight : what? As MAH said, South Florida has the largest South African Ex pats in the US. Plus, it's the natural first stop to the US. Lets' not forget that
26 SA7700 : That is incorrect. SA started CPT-MIA services in 1992, with the American Airlines relationship developing later that year. In 1999 SA "moved shop" t
27 Sflaflight : That is correct! It was MIA first then moved it to FLL because it started code sharing with DL and DL had more feed/rotes to FLL (DL Express I think
28 MAH4546 : Always a triangle route. CPT-FLL-ATL-CPT. After 9/11, because new security rules meant that all passengers on SAA's flight had to get off in FLL, cle
29 Kiramakora : Passengers in other cities in southern Africa do not have competing airlines for their business. Many cities have only got JNB as their true hub link
30 2travel2know : Instead of a DKR stop, I wonder if Brazil would let SA 5th rights traffic between SSA/REC/FOR and U.S.A. destinations (ORD/IAD/IAH/LAX ?); SID could
31 MAH4546 : Dakar is a far better stop than anywhere in Brazil, and the idea of IAD-REC, LAX-FOR, or ORD-SSA as actually being substainable is ridiculous. Dakar
32 FlyDreamliner : I'm acutely aware of the South African population in south florida.... part of my family lived in South Africa for some number of years before emigra
33 MAH4546 : You are ignoring many key details. Firstly, they would not fly to Miami daily. It would be 3x - maybe 4x - a week with an A340. That is pretty health
34 Walter747 : i think they should do stopovers in both Darkar and Sal because Sal is a tourist destination and could be much leisre travel form the us to SID. Some
35 LAXdude1023 : I think LAX might be feasible for SAA. Im not exactly sure what routeing would be good for them, but I think LAX-GRU-JNB might be lucrative. Although
36 Zvezda : ORD is very far north and rather far west for connecting to JNB. CLT might be a better option despite less O+D traffic. Star Alliance doesn't really h
37 FlyDreamliner : ORD is somewhat far, but not any real stretch for a flight coming out of Sal or Dakar. ORD has the most solid all around north american hub, and is t
38 WA707atMSP : SAA already has fifth freedom rights between Brasil and the USA. In the late '60s, SAA flew US-South Africa via GIG. The route was shifted to SSA in
39 Swissgabe : 787 for SA? Did I miss something?
40 2travel2know : If SA does have 5th rights for Brazil-U.S.A. traffic and currently JNB-GRU is on of SA most profitable routes, I doubt SA would add a U.S. (or any ot
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