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American Airlines And New Planes?  
User currently offlineTacSupport1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 39 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

After watching the facinating AA documentary on CNBC, I am an even bigger fan of AA now. Their Tulsa facility, which I didn't even know existed, is awesome.

My question is being a new fan of this airline (my other fav is B6), is what is their plans to replace their aging fleet, if any at this time? When would this happen?

I love the MD80, just flew on the other day and a great plane and very good condition and clean considering its age. It also "rode" very nicely.

Also, what make/model do you think AA would use to replace the MD80? Is that in the same class as the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320?

Thank!


No URL in signature please
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFll2993 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11174 times:

Ive heard the AA will replace the 80's with airbus a-320's.

User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11166 times:

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 1):
Ive heard the AA will replace the 80's with airbus a-320's.

No matter how many times I read that I  Smile.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11106 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Hi TacSupport1,
There have been numerous theads about American Airlines future fleet. But I'll go over all this for you:
American signed ten years ago a contract with Boeing for the purchase of aircraft for the twenty years that would follow, that was the time when Boeing was merging with Mc Donnel Douglas. It was then concluded that Boeing would be the sole supplier of aircraft to American Airlines, a long time Boeing and Douglas customer. The idea was to replace in the long run all the MD-80's with Next Generation B737 aircraft. The B737-800's which began to arrive in the late 90's were ordered to replace the last B727-200's, the last one left the fleet in 2002.
But as you know American was in bad shape in the early 2000's, the merger with TWA was costly and many types were phased in, bringing the entire fleet of up to 14 different types. But now the airline is in a better shape with a fleet reduced to only six different types. Gone are the B727 like I mention above, the B717's coming from TWA, the DC-10, MD-11 and F100 aircraft. The next aircraft that are leaving the fleet are the ex TWA 757's because those do not share the same technical data as the regular AA 757's, the TWA 757 being powered with PW engines and the AA 757 being powered with RR engines. When TWA took delivery of the 757's, they were not approved for ETOPS but they did once being flown under the AA operating certificate. But still, there are minor differences between the PW and RR powered birds. So those are about to leave the fleet.

Now that American is slowly returning to profitability, they are evaluating a new airplane to replace all the S80's in the long run. They still have over 40 B737-800's on order to be delivered in 2012/2013, those could still be taken to replace the oldest S80's which are over 20 years old, but the thing is the NG737 may become obsolete by then, Boeing may come up with a new airplane to replace the 737, 757 and MD-80. American is seriously looking at this to replace all the remaining S80's in the long run. That's for the narrowbody fleet.

The widebody fleet, speaking of it, also will need to be renewed by next decade. American is seriously considering the B787 to replace the remaining aging B767-200ER's(the original non ER's which date from the mid 80's are already removed from service, the ER's date from the mid to late 80's) which fly daily on the transcon runs, and the Airbus A300. The A300-600 is American's only Airbus product, the only Airbus they ever had in their whole history. American was thinking of adding the A330 and A340 to the fleet but this is very unlikely for threereasons:
1. AA and Boeing signed a contract like I mention above
2. The crash of flight 587 raised disagreements between AA and Airbus
3. The A300 is a so called "nightmare" and more costly to maintain than the Boeing product.
The only positive point the A300 has over the B767 is the A300 has a large cargo capacity, which is why they are based in JFK and MIA and they are flown mostly to Latin America routes where a large amount of cargo has to be hauled.

The B767-300ER's which do most of the flights across the pond are still yound and will still be flying for years to come, the first one dates from the late 80's but the average age is still low. The youngest ones only date from the early 2000's, nine were ordered to Boeing to replace the former 9 TWA B763's, again because of techinical data and config differences. The B777 is American Airlines flagship aircraft, so called the queen of the skies, and is flown on the longest routes in the system. It is very young still and will be in the fleet for many years to come. The reason the MD-11' s were phased out after only ten years of operation is fuel efficiency.

So to summarize all this, the AA fleet should look like in ten years from now:
B737-800
B757-200 (no more ex-TWA PW powered aircraft), gradually on the way out
B767-300ER, retirement of those beginning
B777-200
MD-80, gradually on the way out
B787
The new Boeing aircraft (probably the 797) on order
Gone by the middle of next decade will be the B767-200 and the A300

The American Eagle fleet will consist of Embraer and Bombardier jets only; mostly Embraers. I doubt the Saabs and ATR's will still be around by then.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineArt at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

With the situation regarding AA587 and the fact that AA entered into an agreement with Boeing to be the sole supplier of airframes, I sincerely doubt that AA will get 320s in the future. They may get more 737NG's or next gen versions, and the 787 is almost sure but I don't think 320's are in the cards.

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11021 times:

I believe AA would have already ordered the 787 if it was not for their financial problems. As these problems clear up I believe that Boeing & AA will have their number crunchers (from Accounting & Finance) working together to develop a model (and financing) for replacement planes.

The key will probably be the cost comparisons between the older planes (especially lower fuel efficiency & MX on the older planes) and the newer ones with the additional capital/lease costs. When the total costs of upgrading warrants the shift then the Finance guys will start working out the details and we'll see the orders.

Since AA still has over 40 737NGs on order that will probably be the base for a 737RD order - say, 50 ordered with a ton of options and/or purchase rights.

As far as the 787 goes I can see an order (with maybe a nice escape clause) fairly soon so AA can get some production slots locked up. Delivery of even the best available slots gives AA time to continue to work on the financial position and I believe they want those planes as soon as they can financially take them.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10949 times:

TacSupport1, I agree the special was very well-done, and very good P.R. for AA. And yes, their Tulsa facility is supremely impressive -- it's the largest civil aviation maintenance facility on earth, and it is HUGE.

Quoting TacSupport1 (Thread starter):
My question is being a new fan of this airline (my other fav is B6), is what is their plans to replace their aging fleet, if any at this time? When would this happen?

Well, AA has said on repeated occassions that they really aren't going to focus on replacing their fleet with new airplanes until they can profitably fly the airplanes they already have. That being said, AA is definitely going to be forced into looking into a long-term fleet renewal program at some point in the next 5-10 years, as the airline's fleet of MD80s (which make up almost half of the entire fleet) is aging.

Quoting TacSupport1 (Thread starter):
I love the MD80, just flew on the other day and a great plane and very good condition and clean considering its age. It also "rode" very nicely.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. As long as you're not in the last 5 rows of Coach, the MD80 is one of the best rides in the sky. I love the 2-3 seating, because if you're on the 2-seat side, you only have one person between you and the aisle if you're in the window seat, and it's perfect if travelling with another person. In addition, the interior refurbishment AA did in the 1999-2001 timeframe on the MD80s has upgraded their appearance significantly. And, if you're at the front of Coach, or in First Class, the engines are so far away that it is incredibly quiet.

That begin said, the planes are aging and not as fuel efficient as next-generation (NG737/A320) replacements. However, as AA's CFO recently said on their Q3 conference call, the MD80s are still "great planes," the workhorses of AA's fleet, and as many have noted recently, while they may be more costly on fuel, the fact that AA owns outright virtually the entire fleet cuts down dramatically on ownership costs.

Quoting TacSupport1 (Thread starter):
Also, what make/model do you think AA would use to replace the MD80? Is that in the same class as the Boeing 737 and Airbus A320?

It's anyone's guess at this time. AA's CEO and CFO alluded to a long-term MD80 replacement program during the recent earnings conference call, and hinted that the company may begin intensely looking towards a next-generation MD80 replacement sometime early 2007. However, I would not expect an order or any large-scale replacement to take place anytime soon. It probably isn't going to happen for several years.

As to what will replace the planes, the latest rumor seems to be that AA may move up some of the 47 737-800 deliveries it deferred following 9/11 as a stop-gap measure. AA has 47 737s on order for delivery in the 2013-2016 range, but may move those up to 2008-2010 in order to begin pulling out of service some of the oldest MD80s that are now over 20 years old. Then, with these planes out of the way, AA could keep operating some of the younger MD80s (some of the ex-TWA planes, the last ones built, are less than eight years old) for another decade. Eventually, so the rumor goes, AA will replace the MD80s with the long-anticipated Boeing 737 replacement airplane, tentatively dubbed "Y1," but when that will happen or when that plane will even be offered is very "up in the air" (pun very much intended).

One thing is for sure, though: AA's MD80 fleet isn't going anywhere anytime soon. AA has more than 320 MD80s in daily operation, with another 26 parked that could be put back into service on a few weeks notice. Even if AA purchased enough aircraft to replace the MD80s on a one-for-one basis, and took delivery of a new replacement plane once per week, it would still take well over five -- and closer to six! -- years just to get rid of the entire fleet!


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10597 times:

I've often wondered if American would order a smaller 100 seat plane like the E90 to bridge the gap from Eagle to mainline. Also, does anyone know if American Eagle would ever order more CR7's or perhaps order some E70's?

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 7):
I've often wondered if American would order a smaller 100 seat plane like the E90 to bridge the gap from Eagle to mainline.

It is a touchy issue that AA is likely not going to address, if ever, for several years. After the Fokkers and ex-TWA 717s left the fleet in 2002-2003, AA was left with a gap of what is now 70 seats between the 70-seat Eagle CRJs and the soon-to-be-reconfigured 140-seat MD80s. This is an enormous gap that has led to AA mainline pulling out of many markets in the last few years, Upstate and West Chester, New York, Providence and Chicago-Hartford among them.

That being said, however, AA seems to regard this fleet arrangement of only flying mainline to places that can support MD80s as at least acceptable, as they've shown absolutely no sign of moving towards an order in the 100-seat range. Indeed, some markets, shockingly, have responded to the loss of Fokkers by not only supporting MD80s but actually taking more service, like Birmingham, Alabama, which had its 3x daily D/FW Fokker service replaced with MD80s and actually got a 4th daily frequency recently.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 7):
Also, does anyone know if American Eagle would ever order more CR7's or perhaps order some E70's?

Even more touchy that whether AA will ultimately get a 100-seat airplane is the issue of who will fly it if they do. Obviously, both AA and Eagle pilots want the flying, and it is very 'up in the air' as to who would get it. AA's contract with its pilots says that mainline pilots get any flying on jets over 70 seats as long as it is "cost-neutral" to the company versus sending the flying to Eagle. Without a major concession on the part of AA's pilot union, which is unlikely, it it is almost inconceivable how their compensation could ever be "cost-neutral" versus the much lower-paid Eagle pilots' contract. In addition, AA's contract with its mainline pilots stipulates no more 70-seaters, so no more CRJs will be coming anytime soon. In fact, back when AA still had Embraers on order (they have all since been cancelled) AA was actually in active negotations with Horizon Air to sell all 25 of their CRJs. This would have smoothed things over with the mainline pilots, and helped standardize the fleet on a single regional jet aircraft type, but the deal ultimately never went through.

Long-term, I would say that if AMR decides to buy a plane in the 100-seat range, regardless of whether it was Eagle or AA mainline on the AOC, the odds are -- at least given current market offerings -- that the Embraer EJet family would likely get the business. However, AA may wait to see what Boeing's new Y1 offers in terms of capacity flexibility. If Boeing is able to offer a full family of narrow-body products spanning the 100-200 seat range, AA may just lump in a 100-seater buy with their long-term MD80/737 replacement. All of that, of course, is still years off, though.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10445 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):
When TWA took delivery of the 757's, they were not approved for ETOPS

My Mother flew STL-HNL (with a tech stop in LAX) in 1999 on a TWA 757. How'd TWA manage that without ETOPS?


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1158 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):
When TWA took delivery of the 757's, they were not approved for ETOPS

My Mother flew STL-HNL (with a tech stop in LAX) in 1999 on a TWA 757. How'd TWA manage that without ETOPS?

Correct. They also flew across the atlantic from JFK to LIS, BCN and even LGW from STL occasionally.

My only guess is that TWA's ETOPS certificate was not transferrable and AA had to apply for their own ETOPS operating certificate before they could use the aircraft as such.

Regards



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12185 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9189 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
It is a touchy issue that AA is likely not going to address, if ever, for several years. After the Fokkers and ex-TWA 717s left the fleet in 2002-2003, AA was left with a gap of what is now 70 seats between the 70-seat Eagle CRJs and the soon-to-be-reconfigured 140-seat MD80s.

AA could fill that gap with B-737-700s.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 8851 times:

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 1):
Ive heard the AA will replace the 80's with airbus a-320's.

Nice try.... The MD-80's are already being replaced (slowly) by a very large B737-800 order. The rate was slowed down after 9/11, but I have already have seen 737's on former MD-80 routes.

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 10):
My only guess is that TWA's ETOPS certificate was not transferrable and AA had to apply for their own ETOPS operating certificate before they could use the aircraft as such.

ETOPS has to do with how the crews are trained and how the aircraft is flown. Very little of it is a physical thing and can not just be 'transfered'.

[Edited 2006-10-22 15:17:03]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8747 times:

I don't AMR will replace the MD80's anytime soon. There are simply too many in the fleet and the economics around the maintenance are simply too great to touch. I think the MD80's will become AA's version of the NW DC9 fleet. They will keep ripping them apart (as shown in the CNBC documentary) and retroffiting them. They'll be in service for up to 40 years.

User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8619 times:

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 1):
Ive heard the AA will replace the 80's with airbus a-320's.

How  silly !

I personally don't think AA would want to buy those  crazy  airplanes. If AA was to buy those  yuck  airplanes, they will spend quite a good amount of money on training their pilot. Right now the best replacement for AA's MD-82/MD-83's, is the Boeing 737NG since they already operate the 737-800. AA could possibly do what CO did. CO converted orders for 12 Next-Generation 737s to the new 737-900ER model. So AA could do the same by converting their remaining 738 orders (47) for the new 737-900ER model.

Also the Boeing 777-200LR, 777-300ER, & 787 can become part of their future fleet modernization. The 772LR could open new routes from DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX, JFK, to countries like Singapore, Malaysia, New Zealand, Australia, UAE, South Africa etc.

So here is what I think their future fleet will be:


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And obviously the 787 might become part of their new fleet modernization program.

Regards,

JOE.  airplane 


User currently offlineTom12 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 1078 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8462 times:

The Boeing-American agreement is not legally binding, i do doubt they will purchase the Airbus a/c though.

I read recently that the 737's will replace the MD-80, as mentioned above.

Tom



"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8517 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8290 times:
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AA should take early deliveries of the 738 since they need those airplanes now. 47 new 738 are 47 MD80 that could be retired. The domestic short haul fleet has the biggest number of airplanes and the oldest too, that's wear the newest airplanes should go to.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8182 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 16):
AA should take early deliveries of the 738 since they need those airplanes now. 47 new 738 are 47 MD80 that could be retired. The domestic short haul fleet has the biggest number of airplanes and the oldest too, that's wear the newest airplanes should go to.

Indeed, this is the plan that has been getting the most rumors of late. It seems fairly plausible, too. With their long-term agreement with Boeing, AA has great flexibility in moving up or deferring delivery positions on orders, and the company could easily move up the pending 47 737 deliveries by a few years (currently they're slated for a 2013-2016 delivery window). However, AA would have to find the money to arrange financing for these planes, which may be problematic if the company doesn't want to outlay great deals of cash at the moment, understandibly. As the theory goes, these 47 737s would be used to begin pulling the oldest and most expensive MD80s out of service, and serve as a stop-gap measure until the 2010-2015 range, when Boeing will apparently have a Y1 family of derivatives to offer AA, which could then commit to a much larger purchase that would replace their entire MD80/737 (and possibly 757) domestic fleet.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8096 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Well, AA has said on repeated occassions that they really aren't going to focus on replacing their fleet with new airplanes until they can profitably fly the airplanes they already have.

The question I have is how the financial models change when the company goes through a cost bump, like the last major jump in fuel prices. At some point the balance may shift to a 787.

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 15):
The Boeing-American agreement is not legally binding, i do doubt they will purchase the Airbus a/c though.

Was the entire agreement voided, or just a clause or two?


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7895 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
The question I have is how the financial models change when the company goes through a cost bump, like the last major jump in fuel prices. At some point the balance may shift to a 787.

You're trading long-term operating expenses for up-front cash outlays, though. It might save AA millions each year in fuel to transition their fleet of MD80s to, say, 737s, or their fleet of A300s and 767s to 787s, but the up-front capital expenditures associated with this type of a fleet renewal program are immense, especially when we're talking about the sheer numbers that AA's fleet entails -- over 100 A300s/767s, over 300 MD80s, etc.

It has to make sense at both the operating expense and upfront cash ends -- when AA determines that the return on investment of buying newer, more fuel efficient planes is economically viable because of cost savings from fuel, maintenance, etc., it will no doubt make that decision. But because it is going to cost billions, upon billions, upon billions to upgrade AA's enormous fleet, it is a decision they are not likely to make anytime soon. The MD80s may not be as fuel efficient as 737s, or its 767s as efficient as 787s, for example, but in most cases, AA owns the planes outright, with no monthly ownership cost expenditure, and that is a big cost component that also must be factored into long-term fleet planning decision-making.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
Was the entire agreement voided, or just a clause or two?

The E.U. [Airbus] complained about the deal, and so the two parties agreed to scrap the exclusivity clause of the agreement. However, unspoken, there is still a strong working relationship between the two companies despite some recent bumps along the road. In addition, AA still has at least some form of agreement worked out with Boeing that gives it enormous flexibility in managing aircraft deliveries so it can speed up or slow down aircraft purchases as it needs to.


User currently offlineCharger From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 273 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7744 times:

Quoting Tom12 (Reply 15):
The Boeing-American agreement is not legally binding, i do doubt they will purchase the Airbus a/c though.

OK guys please don't flame me, because I'm new here and this question may have been answered before, but why is this agreement not legal? Why can't an airline make a deal with a manufacturer to get the best price.
My company buys thousands of cars, vans and trucks every year. We had a agreement with Dodge to provide all the cars and Vans at "Prefered prices". We also had an agreement with GMC to provide the larger trucks. Since Dodge stopped producing the standard van, and came out with the Sprinter, We negotiated a new agreement with GM to provide all the vehicles we buy. Wouldn't it be the same deal with an airline or is there something I am missing?

I should also add that if for any reason GM can't provide the vehicle(s) in a specified time frame, we do (and have) buy from a different manufacturer. I'm sure the airlines could do the same.

[Edited 2006-10-22 19:48:40]

[Edited 2006-10-22 19:51:03]

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11983 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Quoting Charger (Reply 20):
why is this agreement not legal? Why can't an airline make a deal with a manufacturer to get the best price.

Because Airbus and the Europeans got pissed off that they didn't get the deal.


User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1158 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7560 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 10):
My only guess is that TWA's ETOPS certificate was not transferrable and AA had to apply for their own ETOPS operating certificate before they could use the aircraft as such.

ETOPS has to do with how the crews are trained and how the aircraft is flown. Very little of it is a physical thing and can not just be 'transfered'.

The fact that an ETOPS certificate cannot be transferred was exactly my point. You are correct in saying that crew training and procedures play a part but a lot of it is relevant to the aircraft and the airline who operates it



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineBaron52ta From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

AA has made it well known that they have no plans to get Airbus as they were planning to narrow down the number of types within the fleet due to the high cost to maintain a diverse fleet.

User currently offlineAmerican777 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

Quoting Baron52ta (Reply 23):
AA has made it well known that they have no plans to get Airbus as they were planning to narrow down the number of types within the fleet due to the high cost to maintain a diverse fleet.

 checkmark 


Regards,

JOE.  airplane 


25 Ckfred : This is what I've heard from a friend of mine who is a pilot with AA. Remember, the rumours that a pilot hears are just that, rumours. First, AA's del
26 CWFan : I read somewhere (just googled it, but now can't find it!) that the deal between Boeing and American was scrapped in order for Boeing to get EU antri
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