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PTVs On 787s For US Customers  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

What are the chances of Continental, Northwest, Delta, and American putting PTVs on their 787s in all classes? Yes, I know Delta and American have not ordered the 787 yet, but are indeed likely customers.

For Continental I am pretty sure the chances are rather high, Continental doesn't operate any widebodies without them.

I think Delta will also install PTVs on their 787s. While Delta's international 767-300ER fleet do not and will not have them, Delta actually considered installing PTVs on them. Delta dropped the ball on it as it would add more weight to the aircraft. Delta does intend on installing PTVs on the international 767-400ERs and improving the system on the 777-200ERs, though. The 787-8 is lightweight for its size, and has more powerful engines than the 767-300ER.

AA and NW are tough calls. AA and NW only have PTVs on their 777 and A330 fleets, respectively. They have no plans to put PTVs on any other international aircraft. In fact, NW doesn't have IFE on any domestic flight except for Hawaii.

What are your thoughts?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

All new longhaul jets will have PTV's... its no longer a choice its the standard.


Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5687 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
its no longer a choice its the standard.

Not necessarily, Delta, while their 767-400ERs are prewired for PTV installation, they were not equipped with it except in first class. Delta's 767-400ERs were mainly supposed to be a domestic L-1011 replacement, and PTVs at the time were considered unnecessary for those type of routes. With the shift of the 767-400ERs to international, Delta is adding PTVs to them.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5693 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

I think it's extremely likely that all US carriers who order the 787 or A350WXB will have PTV's in every class.

PTV's with AVOD is a customer demand now, so airlines will meet their demands when ordering new aircraft. Just look at DL and their transcon 757's which will now all feature PTV's.

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10361

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
All new longhaul jets will have PTV's... its no longer a choice its the standard.

Extremly untrue. Just look at Yemenia and China Soutern and their new A330's. Both of these aircraft types are very new and airlines can still opt not to have PTV's. In the future I will also think that PTV's will be optional and not standard.


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[Edited 2006-10-21 19:27:43]

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
Not necessarily, Delta, while their 767-400ERs are prewired for PTV installation, they were not equipped with it except in first class. Delta's 767-400ERs were mainly supposed to be a domestic L-1011 replacement, and PTVs at the time were considered unnecessary for those type of routes. With the shift of the 767-400ERs to international, Delta is adding PTVs to them.

But those a/c were delivered in 2000 when it wasn't yet standard internationally.

Since then, it has become standard and DL got lucky in that their a/c were pre-wired. An issue they're currently facing with the 763ERs which are unlikely to receive PTVs before the end of their service lives.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

The AVOD PTVs CO will have on thei 787s will be wireless, savings weight and thus fuel.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
The AVOD PTVs CO will have on thei 787s will be wireless, savings weight and thus fuel.

It's not just CO and many airlines will have wireless AVOD in advance of CO.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts?

My thought is that you are nearly obsessed with PTVs and IFE......do you fly just to watch TV shows and movies? Cable may be a better option for you.

------------

Advanced IFE systems with PTVs operated through AVOD systems are quickly becoming the norm for longrange travel and are now finding their way into shorter range airplanes as well. Its interesting, the US carriers have lagged behind with their IFE systems (especially in Coach) on longrange flights......a lot has to do with finances as many US carriers simply could not afford to purchase and intall IFE systems into their airplanes. But, US carriers seem to be leading the way with IFE on shorterhaul flights - JetBlue gets credit here and DL and now CO will be adding advanced IFE systems on domestic aircraft...others are likely to follow sooner or later for completive reasons. European carriers are not rushing to add IFE to their short range flights - its a matter of language......its difficult to provide IFE in 10 or more languages.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5564 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1):
All new longhaul jets will have PTV's... its no longer a choice its the standard.

I think you are right. Even LH will have them in economy in the A 380.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6388 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Advanced IFE systems with PTVs operated through AVOD systems are quickly becoming the norm for longrange travel and are now finding their way into shorter range airplanes as well

If PTVs are a standard option on the 787, Boeing should make regular audio/video IFE standard on the 737RS. While there are airlines who don't have IFE on any aircraft (such as Southwest), those airlines would not be required to use the IFE. Northwest's 757-300s were delivered with IFE, but the IFE wasn't used until Northwest started using their 757-300s on Hawaii flights. The NW 757-300 IFE in fact, is ONLY used on Hawaii flights. If Southwest wanted to enter the Hawaiian market, they will definately need IFE to be competitive.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5299 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 6):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
The AVOD PTVs CO will have on thei 787s will be wireless, savings weight and thus fuel.

It's not just CO and many airlines will have wireless AVOD in advance of CO.



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
What are the chances of Continental, Northwest, Delta, and American putting PTVs on their 787s in all classes?

CO and NWA will be in advance of AA, DL, UAL, US getting such a system because none of the latter airlines have ordered the 787 (only CO and NWA).

BTW.

CO now has 20 firm and 20 options (40 total) for the 787, CO reserves the right as they do with their 737 orders to convert them to any model of 787 (787-3,8,9 and 10 if Boeing offers that model).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5286 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
If PTVs are a standard option on the 787

Airliners are not cars....Boeing and Airbus dont have standard features and option packages like Toyota or GM does. Its not as if an airline orders a 787 with IFE, cruise control and alloy wheels, but does not take power seats and the leather interior. Interior fittings are selected by the airline and in many cases sourced from and isntalled by outside suppliers or by the airline itself.

IFE is neither standard or optional on the 787.....the IFE system is something specified by the airline for its airplanes. Boeing will gladly build an airline a 787 or any other airliner without any IFE equipment if thats what the airline desires, the same goes for Airbus.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 5269 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 11):
IFE is neither standard or optional on the 787.....the IFE system is something specified by the airline for its airplanes.

that's not totally correct... Boeing has specific specifications for IFE on the 787 and chose 2 vendors for PTV. The 787 is a departure from the past were IFE/PTV was a an afterthought... So it is a "dealer option" and yes you can get it w/o but I believe very few if any will.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 5242 times:

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 12):
Boeing has specific specifications for IFE on the 787 and chose 2 vendors for PTV. The 787 is a departure from the past were IFE/PTV was a an afterthought

I realize that, but you make a good point, and I was not entirely clear with my post.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 12):
So it is a "dealer option" and yes you can get it w/o but I believe very few if any will.

I agree that very few airlines will take delivery of 787s without IFE systems, but Boeing is willing to build 787s without IFE if the airline so specifies. Does anyone know if ANA's 787-3s, many of which will see service on very short intra-Japan routes, will be equipped with an IFE system?


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 5242 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
PTV's with AVOD is a customer demand now

But until the customer starts paying for it, you won't see it.
In a time when airlines are removing magazines from the aircraft to save fuel, I think there's a very small chance you will see PTV's and especially AVOD systems in coach, on domestic aircraft.

On aircraft flying internationally, the chances are greater but will all depend on the financial situation of each individual airline at the time. Keep in mind that even today airlines like LH still chose not to have PTV's and many more airlines still don't have AVOD, in all classes.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 5215 times:

I think that all jets in the future will come with PTV screens no matter what, if for no other reason than to have forced advertising in your face for the whole trip.

Sure a 1 hour flight on the 783 might not warrant video in Japan, but when I was there they showed something on the TVs on the 744. I think it was news or something. And the 783s will also be flying 3+ hour flights Sapporo to Okinawa (sp?), for example. Long enough for entertainment.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 5172 times:

Air Canada already plan to have PTVs with AVOD on their new 787s along with 777s in both class of service...

User currently offlineSas330got From Sweden, joined May 2004, 252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Look at LH they do not have PTV's in Econ. I actually slept on that flight compared to one that I have PTV's on.

But a unqualified guess... I would say chances are great for american carriers to have PTV all-around. And I based this on that some low coast have it already.

cheers,

sas330got


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting Sas330got (Reply 17):
Look at LH they do not have PTV's in Econ. I actually slept on that flight compared to one that I have PTV's on.

So true! Had the same experience recently flying AMS-PEK-AMS with KL B744 there and CZ B772 back. Guess on which of the two I slept better?!

Get over it people. While a nice thing to keep kids at bay or to have something on your hands to kill time when bored, there are really tons of other criteria which define comfort that come before IFE.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3904 times:
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Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Delta dropped the ball on it as it would add more weight to the aircraft.

No...they made the decision that equipping their 100 or so 767s with PTV at a million or so per airplane did not fit with their lack of cash. $100 mil here $100 mil there and pretty soon you're talking real money.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Delta does intend on installing PTVs on the international 767-400ERs

Are you sure they aren't already onboard these airplanes?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting Sas330got (Reply 17):
But a unqualified guess... I would say chances are great for american carriers to have PTV all-around. And I based this on that some low coast have it already.

Really? Which Southwest airplanes have PTV's? Last I checked Southwest was still the dominant LCC in the US market. PTV's are expensive to carry around and AVOD systems are even more expensive. They are heavy and occupy valuable legroom and offer virtually zero return on investment. I would not pay a penny more to fly on a PTV equiped aircraft on a domestic 4-5 hour flight vs. a non-PTV equiped aircraft, and you won't find many people who will. Contrary to popular a.net believe, PTV's are not a deciding factor in the industry for the average consumer. Especially in an era where virtually everyone travels with a laptop, portable dvd player, or music/video ipod device. I would be very surprised to see PTV's on domestic 787's and even more surprised to see AVOD systems.


User currently offlineB6flyboy From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3700 times:
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here is a stupid question....what does AVOD stand for?


Your Seat Cushion Cannot Be Used As A Flotaion Device...
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3677 times:

Quoting B6flyboy (Reply 21):
what does AVOD stand for?

Audio and Video On Demand


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

NW's system is going to be a wireless IFE system, AVOD with larger screens, and such. I forgot the name of the company that they just looked at.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 23):
NW's system is going to be a wireless IFE system, AVOD with larger screens, and such. I forgot the name of the company that they just looked at.

All 787 with PTV will be wireless and be AVOD.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
25 Mymiles2go : Get off your Southwest high-horse, he said "some" - not "all"... I quoted it below just for you: And yes, it is a deciding factor whether or not you
26 Post contains images Airbazar : The horse can't be that high considering I've never flown on Southwest and don't plan on it anytime soon. I'm not a big fan of the no assigned seatin
27 AA777223 : As much as I hate it when Know-it-all smart a$$es say a previous post is wrong, I think there might have been a slight error. I think it actually sta
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