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Honda Aerospace: A Threat To Aviation?  
User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8002 times:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1127670/L/

http://hondajet.honda.com/

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/10/19/025665.html

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/c061017HondaJetNBAA/

I have been thinking lately, could this prove beneficial for the aviation industry or a total disaster? In the past we have seen Honda spawn from a little egg to this enormous monster which dominates the world market in the automotive industry. Is it possible that Honda will do the same type of action but in the aviation world? Could it be possible this will start a chain reaction to other automotive corporations getting involved in aviation design? Wouldn't this on a realistic level, make aviation less appealing and interesting to the common person?. Please dont quote me in a negative manner , but who wants to see these little Honda jets flying around EVERYWHERE! They are reporting over 100 orders in three days! Couldn't this just spark ideas for other automotive cooperation's and possibly in the future change the uniqueness of aviation? I also posted a link which states it will take production in the United States in 2010!!! Could we see the end of Learjet, Cessna(citations), Gulfstream? I understand these are VERY fuel efficient, very revolutionary, but could this inflate aviation and create a jammed interstate / QEW / Motorway in the air?

Your inputs please

[Edited 2006-10-23 03:26:16]

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Quoting CF188A (Thread starter):
but who wants to see these little Honda jets flying around EVERYWHERE!

Well, VLJs are here and Honda has little to do with it right now. Hundreds of Eclipses have been sold and it's now fully certified I believe.

Sure Honda may play a role in the future, but they have some catching up to do right now.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

I often wondered why the japanese did not get in the business of building airplanes. Were they, until recently, restricted from this field? they do, after all, have a long tradition in aviation, at least until WWII.

User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6105 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7923 times:
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If Honda can build great cars, motorcycles, outboards, lawn mowers, etc, then they should be able to build a quality airplane.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 1):
Sure Honda may play a role in the future, but they have some catching up to do right now

It took them a while to break into the car industry too. Their first cars were not all that great. But after a while they earned a great reputation. I agree they have a lot of catching up to do, but I bet they will catch up rather quickly.


I have a very tired 85 Accord. I drive it around when the weather is too bad for either of my two good cars. While they are safe in the garage, the Honda comes out (actually it is always out, It doesn't deserve the garage). It was free because the owner thought it was junk. $98 later it was back on the road. Everything works, including the A/C and power antenna. If they can build a plane like that they may give everyone a run for their money.
Big version: Width: 793 Height: 354 File size: 155kb
Very tired 85 Honda Accord



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

that thing is going to give me nightmares!

User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
Their first cars were not all that great. But after a while they earned a great reputation.

Right, but you cannot compare the 70's and 80's car industry to the 21st century aviation industry.

The Japanese cars win because of quality over price ...the quality of a Camry or Accord is second to none...but they don't win on price..a comparable Saturn is much cheaper. The aviation industry doesn't currently have a quality gap that needs filling...like the automobile industry did. Cessna have been making quality aircraft for decades, as have the other manufacturers. The VLJ business today is largely based on price...getting a small jet for one million bucks.

Time will tell....for Honda and the other VLJs.

Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 1):
Hundreds of Eclipses have been sold and it's now fully certified I believe.

Nowhere near full certification. Actually the only certification it technically has is the FAA acknowledging that the Eclipse 500 can fly. It doesn't have certification above FL250 or flight into known icing among other things, and it's still a good 2 years away from full production. By comparison, their nearest compeditor, Adam Aircraft, is just about to have full certification completed with their A700 VLJ.


User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
If Honda can build great cars, motorcycles, outboards, lawn mowers, etc, then they should be able to build a quality airplane.

Honda products are overrated. When it comes to cars, and anything mechanical, German made products are #!. Good example: BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,
AIRBUS.

Yanni



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
User currently offlineCF188A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

back to the topic at hand please !

User currently offlineSuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 7):
Honda products are overrated. When it comes to cars, and anything mechanical, German made products are #!. Good example: BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! You seriously think a German made car is better than a Honda (or Toyota) for that matter. My family has been a BMW family for 20+ years and a Honda family for 8 years. We have had one Honda CRV that I have personally driven (quite hard actually, I am a bit of a lead foot) for 187,000 miles and NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. Now that is quality. Our BMWs seem to break at least ever 20,000 miles (and this has been more than one BMW). Don't get me wrong, BMW are nice, super nice, but they don't have the quality.

I say ALL of this of course to say that I can't wait for Honda Jets...it is practically the reason I am pursuing my pilots license. If you can own one of these jets for under 2 million, and SUPER fuel efficent, with HONDA quality, MAN THAT'S EXCITING!



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7761 times:

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 7):
BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,

You'd better check the JD Power ratings before you make such comments.

I've owned 3 Lexus's (Lexii ?) and now a Mercedes, and the difference in quality is huge and very clear (with Lexus being the clear leader by far).

The Merc looks good, and performance is fine ...but reliability no.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 6):
By comparison, their nearest compeditor, Adam Aircraft, is just about to have full certification completed with their A700 VLJ.

Yes, but I guess the hype is with the numbers, and if you believe the Eclipse guys, they have orders for many more aircraft than Adam, and plan to produce around 4-5 times as many a year.

Like I said....early days yet...we'll see.


Jimbo



I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4331 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting CF188A (Thread starter):
Wouldn't this on a realistic level, make aviation less appealing and interesting to the common person?.

Why? Isn't [more] competition a good thing?

Quoting CF188A (Thread starter):
Please dont quote me in a negative manner ,

Ok, I won't, but...

Quoting CF188A (Thread starter):
Couldn't this just spark ideas for other automotive cooperation's and possibly in the future change the uniqueness of aviation?

I can't help but wonder that you have issues when it comes to change.

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 7):
When it comes to cars, and anything mechanical, German made products are #!. Good example: BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,
AIRBUS.

I'll give you Airbus, but I have to say, BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche are highly over-rated in my opinion.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 2):
Were they, until recently, restricted from this field? they do, after all, have a long tradition in aviation, at least until WWII.

Japan does not have a long tradition in civil aviation. GA as we know it is severely restricted in Japan.

Honda does not pose a threat (yet) to the Gulfstreams and Cessnas of aviation, because they have a tremendous history of success and knowledge behind them, which Honda doesn't have (yet). I think it's great that Honda's selling an aircraft for the first time, especially since my school (Miss. State) and Honda partnered to develop the prototype for it.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Honda does not dominate automotive sales around the world. The premise is faulty.

VW, Toyota, GM, Ford are the biggest.

Anyway, I don't really get the question.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 3):
I drive it around when the weather is too bad for either of my two good cars.

I don't get people like you.

The "beater" owners. You drive an old car with poor braking, poor handling, etc. during the bad weather to protect your nice car. But it's during the bad weather when you NEED the modern features, including air bags, crumple zones, etc. The only accident I've ever had was in the snow, and if I was in your car, I would have been dead. You voluntarily drive a metal death trap during the highest risk weather, and are proud of it.

I don't get people like you...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSjcrrpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Honda does not dominate automotive sales around the world. The premise is faulty.

 wave  Hi Ikramerica,

You need to ignore Honda lovers. They are brain washed at birth. I have never seen anything like it. I expect it on the car forums, but I was hoping I could have a break from it on an airline forum. No use to argue, just agree with them that hondas last 1,000,000,000 miles and never break down and out perform everything else on the road and cost less to purchase and have a far higher resale value and that way you can avoid a confrontation with the H people.

For the record the worlds largest car companies.

GM
Toyota
Ford
Renault-Nissan
Volkswagon
Damiler-Chrysler
Peugeot-Citron
Honda
Hundai (Sales about equal to Honda)
Fiat (Honda sales 1.5x bigger)


User currently offlineBandA From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 338 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7593 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
I don't get people like you.

The "beater" owners. You drive an old car with poor braking, poor handling, etc. during the bad weather to protect your nice car. But it's during the bad weather when you NEED the modern features, including air bags, crumple zones, etc. The only accident I've ever had was in the snow, and if I was in your car, I would have been dead. You voluntarily drive a metal death trap during the highest risk weather, and are proud of it.

I don't get people like you...

I agree, I used to be the same. Now I drive the heck out of any car I buy.

Regarding HondaJet's, they've got some catching up to do but already the engineers have done well and their partnership with GE has atleast some benefits. Time will tell. Afterall people really doubted honda cars at first but look at them now, keep in mind they are a very small company compared to the big 3 and the euro big players but they have done well.

and finally regarding the statement made earlier about german cars being more reliable than Honda/Toyota, based solely on personal experience and not on heresay I disagree, in our family we have an almost even mix or domestics, german and japanese cars... I would rate in terms of most relaible to the least reliable as

1) Lexus and Toyota (Though lexus has a far superior customer service than toyota),

2) Honda,

3) BMW,

4) GM TRUCK,

5) Mercedes,

6) AUDI

This is from personal experience from atleast the last 20 years with our oldest car being a 1992 Toyota Camry. Most of the BMW, MB and AUDIS (330, 540, 740iL, M6, E320, S600, A8, A6), are 1-5 years old while Lexus, Toyota and Honda cars between 1-20+ years old and GM Trucks being 3 and 5 years old.



"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6196 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7584 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 6):
Nowhere near full certification. Actually the only certification it technically has is the FAA acknowledging that the Eclipse 500 can fly.

Eclipse Community Celebrates as Eclipse 500 Earns Full FAA Type Certification

http://www.eclipseaviation.com/index...oom&task=viewpr&id=1142&Itemid=348

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 6):
and it's still a good 2 years away from full production.

Eclipse spokesman Andrew Broom said 23 of the aircraft are in production in addition to two that already have rolled off the assembly line. He said the first delivery to a customer would take place in a matter of days.

Over the next few years, the company will aim on fulfilling more than 2,500 orders customers have placed for this jet,


http://www.eclipseaviation.com/index...ask=viewarticle&id=1145&Itemid=347

If what you say is true, then Eclipse is truly BS-ing.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 6):
By comparison, their nearest compeditor, Adam Aircraft, is just about to have full certification completed with their A700 VLJ.

I would have said the Cessna Mustang that beat Eclipse to full type certificate.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 12):
Japan does not have a long tradition in civil aviation.

Not nearly as extensive as the US but still fairly impressive nevertheless. Certainly their programs for Boeing and the 3 major engine manufacturers have been very successful.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 12):
Honda does not pose a threat (yet) to the Gulfstreams and Cessnas of aviation, because they have a tremendous history of success and knowledge behind them, which Honda doesn't have (yet).

As was suggested in another thread... suppose another Japanese "car manufacturer" just happens to buy an existing player?



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6105 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7406 times:
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Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 7):
German made products are #!. Good example: BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche,

Mercedes-Benz are nice cars, I have one of those too. 240,000 miles and it still looks and runs great!
Big version: Width: 900 Height: 546 File size: 102kb
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300TD, Blue Water Ferry, in MI.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7392 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Honda does not dominate automotive sales around the world. The premise is faulty.

VW, Toyota, GM, Ford are the biggest.

GM and Ford dominate only in terms of numbers....thanks to their (now dwindling) US market.....in terms of quality, the Toyota's and Honda's of the world are head and shoulders above any American company.....


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12564 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7349 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 18):
GM and Ford dominate only in terms of numbers....

As the old saying goes: eat shit - billions of flies can't be wrong!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7271 times:

Quoting Sjcrrpax (Reply 14):
You need to ignore Honda lovers. They are brain washed at birth. I have never seen anything like it. I expect it on the car forums, but I was hoping I could have a break from it on an airline forum. No use to argue, just agree with them that hondas last 1,000,000,000 miles and never break down and out perform everything else on the road and cost less to purchase and have a far higher resale value and that way you can avoid a confrontation with the H people.

Unfortunately, unlike the A vs B debate, there are very many reports/studies/ratings that prove the point that Japanese cars are far superior than most others when it comes to quality...and yes, true for resale value (although German cars the same). Actually nobody said they cost less to purchase, in fact I said they were more expensive than a comparable American car....hence not really what people are looking for in the aviation industry when comparing the two.

In business and VLJ jets, quality, which like it or not, is where the Japanese car makers have won over most others, is not really an issue. The reliability of small jets and engines is excellent...from all manufacturers, so it's not easy to bring a new model to the market just on quality. The VLJ market is based much on the price to the customer (with expected performance of course), and to compare with cars again, the Japanese actually charge more for their cars on average....so again, it's a tough world to compete in and very different from competing with GM, Ford etc. in the car markets.


Jimbo

[Edited 2006-10-23 15:19:43]


I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
User currently offlineCongaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 12):
Honda does not pose a threat (yet) to the Gulfstreams and Cessnas of aviation, because they have a tremendous history of success and knowledge behind them, which Honda doesn't have (yet).



Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
The VLJ market is based much on the price to the customer

In the spirit in which "CF" started this thread, I believe Honda, and the VLJ manufacturers at large, are targeting a new niche market. It does not threaten GA, corporate, and luxury. It is after new market potential, admittedly at the expense, if anything, of the upper end of commercial aviation.

Honda, Eclipse, Adams, and others seem to want to sell jet aircraft for primarily air taxi. They can certainly serve a second-tier corporate market as well, but the biz traveller who wants to fly from local airport to local airport for a slight premium in cost is the sweet spot...and when someone finds the right biz plan using these jets, I predict this will be rather popular.



"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 9):

You have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! You seriously think a German made car is better than a Honda (or Toyota) for that matter. My family has been a BMW family for 20+ years and a Honda family for 8 years. We have had one Honda CRV that I have personally driven (quite hard actually, I am a bit of a lead foot) for 187,000 miles and NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. Now that is quality. Our BMWs seem to break at least ever 20,000 miles (and this has been more than one BMW). Don't get me wrong, BMW are nice, super nice, but they don't have the quality.

Look at my profile under "occupation" it says TECHNICIAN. I worked on all cars. I don't think German cars are better I know they are built and engineered better. I owned a Bimmer with 250,000 hard trouble free miles, and will blow the doors off any Honda.  yes 

Yanni



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 17):

Mercedes-Benz are nice cars, I have one of those too. 240,000 miles and it still looks and runs great! 1980 Mercedes-Benz 300TD, Blue Water Ferry, in MI.

Nice Benz! And no rust like those Hondas, Toyotas, etc.

How many 1980's Accords and Civics you see still on the road?

I don't think that Honda jet will be successful. Too much competition in the biz jet market.

Yanni



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
User currently offlineOlympic707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 266 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 11 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 10):

You'd better check the JD Power ratings before you make such comments.

I could care less what JD power says. They are "brain washed" like the rest of the Honda lovers.

Yanni



Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
25 Post contains images Eatmybologna : Will it blow the doors off this? [Edited 2006-10-23 17:05:49]
26 Post contains images Bond007 : Stories and anecdotes about the car you owned really don't 'prove' anything (even though I did it myself ). Like I said, you might not like studies a
27 N328KF : The Germans use a different grade of steel. That's why it's rare to see rusted German cars. I could never figure out why more manufacturers didn't us
28 Post contains images CF188A : Competition is a good thing to an EXTENT. If flight bookings begin to have 1 year waiting lists due to time restraints / take off times at airports b
29 Bond007 : OK, but the reasons you think that are?? Because flying is no longer unique? It's not as cool anymore to be a pilot? It might not be cool to you, but
30 Tjwgrr : And that would be a bad thing like what happened to the automotive industry? We all drive higher quality cars today thanks to competition from Honda,
31 SJCRRPAX : I hate to break this to you Honda lovers, but if the Japanese make a commercial airliner of significance Honda will most likely not be involved. The t
32 Gr8Circle : Read the market reports and JD Powers surveys, buddy....you'll know who's right and who's wrong.....and please take a lesson in 'good language'....
33 Post contains links and images Planemaker : WARNING: Watching this NASA video will cause feelings of hate! http://sats.larc.nasa.gov/downloads/SATS_Vision.mov You can get ill watching more movi
34 Post contains images Olympic707 : What's "this"? Looks like a piece of crap. Not all studies and ratings are correct. I still own a Bimmer. I'm ready for another one. Your joking righ
35 Bond007 : No, that's why we keep saying to read the studies and facts rather than quoting personal preferences. It's obvious tens of thousands of people love M
36 Planemaker : Please, try to know something about the thread before you post. This post is littered with links to the HondaJet in flight.
37 Post contains images CF188A : The point of the thread was to create a discussion so please do not make it personal. Now does over productions / bringing more public make aviation
38 Post contains images Bond007 : Sorry, didn't mean to, but after all you did say one of the reasons you thought Honda was a threat was because you thought they'd be so many planes a
39 Post contains images Planemaker : CF188A, Awww, you obviously didn't look at ANY of the videos!!!!! Nor the presentation. They have NOTHING to do with 85k+ altitude travel and EVERYTH
40 Post contains images 727200er : I wish Honda (or Toyota) would build a GA piston engine. 5000 hr TBOs anyone?
41 Post contains images SuseJ772 : You crack me up. Yeah, we are a violent group sometimes That's amazing. You are the first person (out of probably 20) that I have talked with about t
42 Virgin747 : I havent read this thread.... I just wanted to comment on the title for this thread.... Whoever though of that has to be crazy..... come on lets be re
43 ThePRGuy : Did you know that NOT ONE v-tech civic engine has ever been returned as faulty or malfunctioning? Thats a fact. Thanks Alex
44 SCCutler : You're dreaming. The reason you find so little changing in the aviation engine designs, is that hey are awfully good as it is. Remember when Porsche
45 Post contains images Irobertson : Is this an aviation thread or a car thread??! I can see it now, we'll go from A vs B wars to Honda vs Eclipse. Has anyone mentioned Embraer's slick li
46 SuseJ772 : I knew someone would say that sooner or later. I haven't heard much about Embraer's jet. Is it a VLJ? Although this brings up a good question, how do
47 Bond007 : ...and apart from Porsche, the next German manufacturer, BMW is #11 on the overall list, Mercedes #28, with Audi and VW even lower! From the Initial
48 Post contains links N328KF : The aerospace firms are more driven by engineering and performance than by marketing and consumer flash. It's a different philosophy and it's one whe
49 Post contains images Lightsaber : Honda has an interesting product: From the 3rd link: So now they oficially have their foot in the door. Will their first aircraft have honda car relia
50 RODNAWACS : I have to agree that neither American or European autos compare favorably to their Japanese counterparts. I know this is not a aviation post but my go
51 Bond007 : Although I don't see the range as an issue. It's surprizing that the average leg distance for ALL corporate/business jets, for the top 10 busiest rou
52 MD-90 : Personally, I don't really find the YS11 or the Mu-2 (nice plane) or that 4-seat Fuji Aero Subaru to be all that impressive. Has any Japanese company
53 Post contains images SuseJ772 : Not so much. I only make 45k a year, so you probably have me beat. BUT I produce a radio show that in 3 years or so (we think at least) will have the
54 Post contains images SuseJ772 : Ummmm....SDL-LAS is 4,400 nm. So I am assuming you mean something else (although I am not sure what, SNA? SLC? SAN?) [Edited 2006-10-24 04:51:31]
55 PPVRA : I agree. But it would be nice to be able to do transcon with a single stop mid-way. I think range is not a necessity, but a luxury. Beeing abe to fil
56 Post contains images T prop : The simple fact is they can't. They don't know how to build and engine that will outperform and old American Lycoming or Continental, meet all FAR's
57 N328KF : Not only that, but when Honda did go to build a turbine, they concluded that the only way to make it feasible was to partner with the Big Dog. And th
58 Post contains images CF188A : No i did not. My media player would not load them. I was judging from the information he put in the post it had to do with space travel seeing as how
59 Post contains images Lightsaber : ok, true point. But most of these have an option head. (Although, the WSJ article noted, if it was used, you got to know your fellow passangers a lit
60 Mir : No. About the only thing Honda's jet is competing with is the very low-end Citations - the CJs, as well as the Mustang. The VLJ market (which Honda i
61 Planemaker : Yes, the Beechjet.
62 Post contains images Bond007 : Well, all valid FAA codes and if you stick a 'K' at the beginning...all valid ICAO codes. KSDL being Scotsdale, AZ....unfortunately I forgot about th
63 Post contains images Bongo : Me!
64 Katekebo : Do you remember how Honda started in the US market? They launched the Civic, a tiny, toy-like car with a motorcycle engine. It wasn't particularly rel
65 N328KF : The problem is that the Japanese auto manufacturers do best against stagnant incumbents. In this case, they are dabbling in an area where there is cu
66 Post contains images SuseJ772 : Ohh silly me. Should have thought of that one. I was doing it from memory, but at the same time trying to think of what was in the region that starte
67 PPVRA : I think that depends on the model you are looking at. Surely the Eclipse, you're right, but then some people to cross-country on Cessnas... remember
68 Bond007 : The Cirrus clearly isn't designed for cross-country flight, and nobody in their right mind flies a single engine, light GA aircraft from coast to coa
69 Post contains images 727200er : Actually the problem isn't building a better engine, that's been done many times. As just one example I present the thielert diesels. The problem is
70 Aerodog : Mitsubishi was not turning a profit on the Diamond. They sent exec's to both Cessna and Learjet to see how those companies were building airplanes an
71 Arffguy : Clearly, and as a matter of fact, you know little about the Cirrus. Or travel by light plane in general. While not ideal for true coast to coast flyi
72 Post contains images Bond007 : You mean apart from the fact that I own one Not 'ideal for true coast to coast flying' ??? It's almost the worst type of aircraft to do that kind of
73 MD-90 : Oops, forgot about the Mu-300 Diamond. At least Mitsubishi's proven that they can design competitive aircraft. Bingo.
74 Virgin747 : Honda is doing what boeing did with the 707, trying to bring aviation to everyone. And the more people that Honda, Boeing, Airbus reach, the stonger
75 Bond007 : The problem is that currently they are the back of the line (unlike Boeing was)...after Embraer, Eclipse, Adam, Diamond, Swearingen, Cessna, etc. etc
76 Post contains images Lightsaber : Cheaper isn't that difficult. Its not purchase price, its TCO. Business jets currently are not built well enough to high cycle duty without a lot of
77 MD-90 : I disagree with that statement. Cirrus would be the best example of an aircraft manufacturer trying to "bring aviation to everyone."
78 SJCRRPAX : What's wrong, you don't got 3.65 million laying around? "Scheduled to go into production in the U.S. in 2010, pricing is set at $3.65 million for Hon
79 MD-90 : Nope. Don't have $300-400k, either. Cirrus was the first to put a CAPS system on a production plane, and really increase the comfort levels with an au
80 Bond007 : Actually Honda isn't doing anything yet that the other manufacturers haven't done already. The main reason we're talking about Honda is because they a
81 Post contains images CF188A : GOOD point well is it fair to say its the engine... that will seperate this to lets say the Gulfstreams / Citation X?
82 Post contains images Lightsaber : The engine placement does provide quite a nice weight/performance advantage. Its also composite (a la Adam A700). The main risk to other's is Honda's
83 Aerodog : Only in your dreams. Contemporary composite airplanes have no better empty weight fractions then their aluminum brethren nor do they cost any less to
84 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : No better weight? Not on the projects I've worked. We've seen huge weight drops for composite components over aluminum. But hey, that's only my exper
85 Aerodog : For over 40 years we have been hearing how composite aircraft will revolutionize the aircraft industry, it has not happened yet. There have been many
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