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BA, Bmed And GB.  
User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

I will start by saying that the following is internal gossip.

There is much talk going on within BA and BMED as to the future direction of the franchise agreement.

A friend who works for BMED has been told an announcement on the 'companys direction' is being made on December 18th.

The joint aircraft order that has been placed with Airbus has now been cancelled.

Crew at both GB and BMED who were recently recruited have now been sent letters saying there are 'no jobs available' and they will be notified in January the future of their position.

My friend at BMED says loads have dropped right off. They are lucky if they get 20 or 30 passengers on the average flight now whereas they used to be packed.

The TAS service has now been cancelled completely.

Rumour within the BA side is that either a) the franchise agreement will be done away with altogether, or, b) BA will take BMED 'in house' as a subsidiary company.

Anyone else heard anything of the sort lately?

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

There was a rumour speculating that GB Airwways was set to part ways with BA and that BA was to integrate BMed.


Think they were dismissed though by some insiders on A.net


BA Europe is a mess! It needs soerting out!


User currently offlineLGWspeedbird From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

BA Europe does seem to be in a mess I'm wondering if we will loose GB completely but if we do wasn't some of the routes they operate BA's anyway would we take them back from GB?

As for BMED the last rumor i heard about them was that they were going to merge with GB and move their joint operation to LGW to free up slots for mainline BA at LHR?

Dont you just love rumor's

LGWspeedbird



upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Why do there have to be separate divisions?

Can't it just all be called "British Airways" ?


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Quoting BA787 (Reply 1):
BA Europe is a mess! It needs soerting out!

A mess ? How exactly ?
Look, short-haul is hard to make a profit with, it's much easier to do long-haul, however, BA have a strong customer base, and therefore scrape through, short-haul has always been a question for BA, especially after 9/11 as to whether they were to carry on operating S/H.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineBAKrew From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

I think it's highly unlikely that BA mainline will want to aquire BMed especially if it's true that their flights are operating with only 20 or 30 pax on-board.

BA mainline used to fly to many of Bmed's destinations but they were simply not making any/enough profit on them to make those flight viable,hence the reason Bmed have been doing them under a franchise agreement.
If a small organization like BMed can't make those flight work,then I can't see a much larger organization like BA being able too.

I've also heard that Bmed may be getting A330's in the future.This idea would seem like 'commercial suicide' especially taking in to account the poor load factors they are reportedly experiencing.

Perhaps a closer link with GBAirways would be a sensible move as they are both similar sized A320/A321 operators.

Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

BAKrew  Smile



"Thanks for flying with British Airways-A member of the OneWorld alliance"
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 4):
short-haul has always been a question for BA, especially after 9/11 as to whether they were to carry on operating S/H.

Really? BA were considering stopping short-haul flying?!


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

I have also heard the GB rumours. The amount of CANX they have done have not impressed passengers, and staff.

User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2098 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

Yet it ignores the fact that GB are a shorthaul operater, whilst BMED are a longhaul one. I wouldn't be surprised if GB went and operated entirely under the BA Connect banner, with BA EuroGatwick doing the same now that it operates mainly leisure routes.

As for BMED, Air France have shown it is possible to have an in-house unit operating A319 aircraft on niche lobghaul routes, mainly to oil destinations. Maybe BA will look at taking BMED in-house for the same reason, or BMED will look at going that way itself, perhaps introducing a greatly enhanced Club product, World Traveller Plus and a much reduced World Traveller section to focus on yields. This could be coupled with a reorganisation of the route network.

But I guess apart from the fact people just love rumours on A-Net so much, I'll wait for the actual announcement - if there is even to be one.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

GT is following BA at Gatwick and doing longer sectors. Short routes such as OPO NTE and SVQ (winter ski excepted) are disappearing and longer routes such as CFU JMK DLM SSH are being started.

GT's cancellation and changes are very annoying, I fly from LGW frequently and never book GT's flights early in advance, am sure others resist this aswell.

GT hasn't followed BA's £50 per sector upgrades from LGW to Club Europe, they must be doing reasonably OK.


User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5354 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 3):
Why do there have to be separate divisions

Arn't they seperate compaines that operate under the BA brand?



Living the jetset life! No better way to be
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

GT operates charters from LGW-GNB with a GT code, not sure if they wear a BA uniform though.

GT is part of http://www.blandgroup.com/home-page/


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting BMED (Reply 10):
Quoting Vasu (Reply 3):
Why do there have to be separate divisions

Arn't they seperate compaines that operate under the BA brand?



Lovin bmi regional

Two things have affected the reasoning for 'divisions' within BA: Cost savings and/or mergers.

BA itself (mainline) pretty much wants to operate only to safe, proven cities with year round premium traffic, or to destinations that give their long-haul operations good feed.

The 'mainline' division consists of the former BOAC (BA Long-haul routes @ LHR and some at LGW), BEA (BA short-haul routes at LHR), Caledonian (BA Long-haul routes @ LGW) and DanAir (BA short-haul routes ex LGW) companies/routes/staff. This covers BA's operations at LHR and LGW (with exception of BMED/GB Airways flights of course). Crews at LGW now operate under a different contract to the LHR crews, which is less generous in terms of money, time off etc but gives the crews down there increased flexibility (they will crew a mixture of long and short-haul routes).

Then we have BA 'wholly owned subsidiary' companies. These are companies that BA have aquired and are owned 100% by BA, however they retain their own management structures, working conditions and work as an independent force. An example of this was CitiExpress which then become BA CitiExpress and is now BA Connect. They operate routes from the UK to domestic and european destinations (plus MAN-JFK) and have a much lower cost structure and are a leaner operation. 'Eurogatwick' also used to be a subsidiary company.

Finally, we have franchise airlines. BMED, GB etc. These airlines pay BA a fee to use the BA name, colour scheme, uniform, inflight product etc. BA obviously gains by appearing to fly to more destinations than they actually do, and the franchise airlines gain by having the worldwide sales and marketing force of BA (as well as the name) behind them. BA reduces their own risk by not flying to destinations that with their own cost structure, they would not make a profit on.

BA franchised out many middle east routes to BMED as BA wanted to reduce the risks of operating in an ever changing and volatile region which BMED unfortunately seems to be facing now. BA mainline used to fly to many of the destinations BMED now fly. BA itself will face no losses.

As for GB, they fly on european leisure routes that BA mainline would never make a profit on itself due to employee costs, working agreements etc.

Of course the general idea is, that 'average joe' travelling on his flight from New York to Seville (BA & GB), or San Francisco to Baku (BA & BMED) thinks they are using only BA.


User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

If the BA/BMed franchise ended, who would bget the LHR slots - BA or BMed

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 2):
As for BMED the last rumor i heard about them was that they were going to merge with GB and move their joint operation to LGW to free up slots for mainline BA at LHR?

And bang goes most of BMed transfer passengers and the loads end up nosediving with AF/LH etc having a very big smile on their faces



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

One thing that is without doubt is that BMED routes have been very lightly booked for some time.

I doubt that this is entirely due to BMED's strategy of adding stopovers on virtually its entire network as, ultimately, the economy traveller is price driven and will tolerate waiting for an hour in Yekaterinburg or Alexandria for a lower price. The services should stilll appeal to business class passengers whose alternatives to places like Addis, Bishkek etc will either require an aircraft change with another airline, or the direct alternative will not be very appealing for the mileage whore. Although the Tashkent withdrawal slaps this argument across the face.

It will be interesting to see how BMED address this problem as I cannot see it being remedied by going alone, and I think BA would ransack BMED if mainline got its hands on it.

As for GB Airways............people like myself, Treksuit and others who handle these bookings in whatever way all, uniformly and without exception, despise the airline. I cannot see GB Airways staying afloat if they cannot hide behind the anonymity that BA affords them. How could you trust an airline that makes 6 schedule changes on your booking within 8 months, then changes departure airport from LGW to LHR, then changes the day of travel entirely, then cancels the route and offers no reroute alternative. I would dance around the streets of Manchester wearing a Liverpool thong if GB Airways either (a) buggered off, or (b) were put under the control of a chimp with a dozen brain cellls. This would make life so much easier for me and for passengers.

Intriguing as to whether anything happens at all. It probably won't, but BMED loads have been worryingly low.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

But if GT and KJ leave BA, it is BA who's gonna suffer the most. Remember the stranded passengers in east Africa after the demise of Regional Airlines of Kenya. If BA looses GT and KJ, BA's network will shrink a lot and the route netzork won't be as attractive as it is now because these airlines feed into BA's network. And recently, most of the new routes and destinations were added by franchise partners not by mainline BA which is less dynamic...


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBAxMAN From St. Helena, joined May 2004, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5202 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
But if GT and KJ leave BA, it is BA who's gonna suffer the most. Remember the stranded passengers in east Africa after the demise of Regional Airlines of Kenya. If BA looses GT and KJ, BA's network will shrink a lot and the route netzork won't be as attractive as it is now because these airlines feed into BA's network. And recently, most of the new routes and destinations were added by franchise partners not by mainline BA which is less dynamic...

Obviously, nobody would want an unannounced, immediate buggering-off of GB Airways. But, if they refuse to amend their ways, I don't think many people in BA would shed too many tears if a gradual withdrawl was made.

Hopefully, it won't come to that but it does not change the fact that GB Airways' flight scheduling over the past couple of years has been nothing more than shoddy.



I need to get laid
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7641 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
Of course the general idea is, that 'average joe' travelling on his flight from New York to Seville (BA & GB), or San Francisco to Baku (BA & BMED) thinks they are using only BA.

If this is true I take it that your 'average joe' does not read in-flight magazines. Every time I have flown GT the in flight magazine has been distictively GT and very different to the in flight magazine supplied on BA flights.


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
If this is true I take it that your 'average joe' does not read in-flight magazines. Every time I have flown GT the in flight magazine has been distictively GT and very different to the in flight magazine supplied on BA flights.

Yes VV you are right. BMED has also just very recently also began printing their own magazine. They used to offer BA's 'Highlife' in-flight managzine.

A sign (albeit small) that Gb and BMED wish to distance themselves from BA?


User currently offlineBAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
But if GT and KJ leave BA, it is BA who's gonna suffer the most. Remember the stranded passengers in east Africa after the demise of Regional Airlines of Kenya. If BA looses GT and KJ, BA's network will shrink a lot and the route netzork won't be as attractive as it is now because these airlines feed into BA's network. And recently, most of the new routes and destinations were added by franchise partners not by mainline BA which is less dynamic...

BA would suffer a hell of a lot more if it was BA itself operating these routes though.

That is the great benefit of the franchise agreement. If BA was flying these routes with 20 or 30 passengers as BMED are at the moment it would be bad news for BA. But as it is, BMED shoulder most of the losses.

The problem BMED will likely have if they go it alone, is that BA will identify routes that could be profitable in-house and compete with them. Before the BMED franchise agreement, BA used to serve the likes of Baku or Tehran with 767's. BMED have shown that airbus narrowbodies can also work on these routes (and are probably a lot better suited than a 767). BA isn't short of of short-haul aircraft like they are of long-haul a/c. If they needed to launch new services due to the pull-out of BMED they could do very quickly.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7641 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Quoting BAStew (Reply 18):
A sign (albeit small) that Gb and BMED wish to distance themselves from BA?

I do not think they would do this. Remember Duo Airways (formerly Maersk Air UK). Having been a BA franchise partner based at BHX they went independent and did not survive for more than seven months.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Quoting BAStew (Reply 18):
Yes VV you are right. BMED has also just very recently also began printing their own magazine. They used to offer BA's 'Highlife' in-flight managzine.

A sign (albeit small) that Gb and BMED wish to distance themselves from BA?

I don't know about KJ but GT has alwas had the Med Life magazine plus High Life... So nothing there to speculate about...

I think GT could go its own way because it is easy to fill planes to Malaga or Faro but not BMED. BMED relies on transfer passengers to feed their flights. GT don't.

But I think BA should stick to GT and KJ (buy them) because they are adding a nice network to BA (Have you tried to imagine BA's map without them?)



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 4):

I mean the whole BA Connect fiasco. They are trying to compete with the low cost carriers a competition that they can never win. I still stand by the theory that BA should stick to what it is best at, Full service flights for the business and premium leisure passenger, maybe operating an LCC on the side.


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 6):
Really? BA were considering stopping short-haul flying?!

Yes, they weren't making as much money as they wanted (but as I've stated, this was always the case) and since the airline was in a lot of debt, they needed money earning divisions, not divisions that just scraped through.
However, BA didn't sell it off, but instead cut lots of routes and schedules, as they did at long-haul, although I somehow thing S/H suffered worse.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 22):
I mean the whole BA Connect fiasco. They are trying to compete with the low cost carriers a competition that they can never win. I still stand by the theory that BA should stick to what it is best at, Full service flights for the business and premium leisure passenger, maybe operating an LCC on the side.

It's true that they can't compete with LCC's like your favourite FR, but the idea was that 'thinner' routes would go to BA Connect, which BA don't make huge amounts of money on, leaving their more proffitable business route mainline (the LCY routes still have the mainline offerings beucase they make money). BA Connect isn't a true LCC in the sense that they offer hot food, leather seats which recline etc, which they no doubt hope will draw customers in. I'm pretty sure this is a ploy by Willie Walsh to see how an 'alternative' LCC goes, if it doesn't do well, then bye bye BA Connect.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3755 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4918 times:

GT's franchise agreement with BA ends 2010, BA would be very sensible to sort out the cancellation problem with them, perhaps only allowing GT's core flights to go on sale up to 355 days in advance, the others at twice yearly intervals a la easyJet.

GT have got to be careful because the cancellation reputation is increasing.


25 BA787 : Fair enough, I hope the "favourite FR " bit was sarcasm lol I just think the whole BA europe thing is going in the wrong direction and I have visons
26 Post contains images Blueshamu330s : Well, this is just my scratchings on the back of a beer mat, but: Consolidate long haul ops at LHR Do a few token non-Bermuda II routes ex LGW Ditch t
27 BA787 : lmao so true
28 HUYfan : Actually BMED have had their own inhouse magazine for some time, and just to point out, they also have a copy of Highlife in every seat pocket. I'm no
29 Post contains images BAStew : Some good ideas Blue! But a lot of what seems crazy to many of us sorta work in a strange way. BA would LOVE it if they could do this. But LHR is jus
30 Theginge : The slots are BMED's not BA's, so if the franchise agreement ended BA would not get them and they wouldn;t be freed up for BA mainline. If bigger airc
31 AIR MALTA : BA has sone slots used for Cargo only services out of LHR. BA can change the cargo ops to LGW and use these slots instead...
32 FlyCaledonian : But maybe those cargo flight feed belly cargo on the BA short and long haul passenger flights at LHR? I'm sure flying them into LGW, then sending it a
33 Theginge : I have never seen a BA all Cargo Aircraft at LHR, unless they let other airlines have them.
34 VV701 : I think the Chairman of BMED, Lord Hesketh, is very much his own man and in any circumstance could do what is least expected. In 1971 when he was 21 h
35 ANstar : I couldn't imagine BA giving up shorthaul - even if it is making a small loss. Imagine all the slots they would lose at LHR to competitors (I'm sure
36 BAStew : Shorthaul LHR is now profitable, albeit not hugely. This was announced at their last annual financial report.
37 Theginge : Would make sense for them to keep Shorthaul then if they are making cash, feeds the long haul as well!
38 AIR MALTA : I think BA has a 49% stake in GT, isn't it? So I don't think GT can easily go away... Am I wrong?
39 Theginge : As far as I know GB Airways is in Private hands and BA don't have any stake.
40 BA787 : I think GT is strictly just A BA franchise, contrary to popular belief! Am I imagining things, or weren't GT considering oprating a seperate LCC not
41 Post contains links Richardw : BTW GT have a stretcher conversion A321, for transporting patients. Similar to this http://www.lifeport.com/sitemap02.cfm?pid=25&pgid=3&cnt=4[Edited 2
42 Theginge : A lot of airlines are able to put in Stretchers, just a case of losing a few rows of seats down one side of Economy to fit the stretcher in across the
43 VV701 : Until 1996 BA had a 49 per cent stake in GT. But when GT became a BA franchise operator that year BA sold their stake to Donaldson who already owned
44 BCAL : BOAC never had any aircraft based at LGW or services from LGW. Until their murder of, sorry, merger with British Caledonian, even BA had very little
45 Rtfm : No they don't. BA don't operate any scheduled all cargo flights to LHR. They share space on JAL, Korean and Eva freighters and use DHL freighters for
46 BAStew : Latest rumour on the BA internal crew forum is that BA will take over BMED/GB's A330-200 order and base them at LGW. Then transfer an equal amount of
47 AIR MALTA : I did not know that BMED/GB are ordering A330s...
48 Trekster : Since when have GB or BMED had any orders for the 330-200. I cant see anything anywhere.
49 HUYfan : BAStew is the same poster that posted rubbish about BMED's inflight mags. BA/GT have no 330s on order. Not sure who or what he/she is, but they don't
50 Trekster : Also, unless crew have a different intranet system to me, where is this crew forum that talks about it
51 BAStew : Who/what i am? I am British Airways Long-Haul Cabin Crew based at Heathrow. I DID start this post with the RUMOUR heading. All what I have included o
52 Theginge : The announcement on the 18th Dec? Have you ever heard any companies be so specific with announcing their future direction on a specific date. Why woul
53 BCAL : I had always believed that VS Engineering can only undertake base maintenance up to an A-Check/Minor Check, with C-Check/Major checks outsourced to S
54 HUYfan : Sorry but I stand my ground. This is not an exclusively rumour based forum. Please check your 'facts' before you post them. Regards Mike
55 Theginge : Maybe they might be employing some Airbus A320 qualified engineers?
56 BAStew : Mike, you are more than welcome to stand your ground. But perhaps you shouldn't open/contribute to threads that explicitly use the word 'RUMOUR' and
57 BAStew : Again to those whom have read the thread starter I posted: So if you have read the thread starter and wish to contribute, please don't complain about
58 BA : This is sad. I've flown BMED many times to BEY and flights have always been full. Infact, BEY was BMED's first destination when they started back in
59 Raffik : My Dad has flown twice since the war with BMED and said the flights have been full.. I think it depends on the particular day you travel.
60 BMED : I didn't think BA Connect operated routes in Scotland. I know they fly out of the airports and I think that there is a crew base at EDI surely you me
61 Humberside : No internal Scottish routes, just these non stop ones GLA-MAN/BHX/BRS EDI-MAN/BHX/BRS/LCY/CDG/HAM Plus some one stop flights from GLA and EDI through
62 Humberside : Also ABZ-MAN/BHX and INV-LGW (I appear unable to edit my orginal post to include these)
63 Theginge : Wonder if BA selling BA Connect to Flybe will affect GB in any way?
64 Humberside : I wonder what wil happen to MAN-TFS/SZG/PFO and BRS/NEMA-TFS which are operated as BA Connect - will these return to operating under the main BA brand
65 Richardw : Probably, but with a buy-on-board service, no different to a BA code on an IB economy flight LHR-MAD. Although they could become GT flights with GT f
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