Mr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 20 Posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2502 times:
I guess this is crucial. I don't wish that OneWorld will break up. AA may be leaving... and CO may join... read below for the complete story.
Qantas's Oneworld Alliance is in danger of breaking up after its biggest partner, American Airlines, said it intended to quit the group.
The move by American Airlines resulted from the breakdown in discussions between the US and UK governments over the airline's bid to form a tighter code-sharing alliance with British Airways.
US authorities had set as a condition greater access to landing slots for other airlines at London's premier airport, Heathrow, something the UK authorities and British Airways rejected.
British Airways has also been discussing mergers with airlines such as KLM, which is in an alliance with Northwest Airlines, a competitor of American Airlines.
Mr Peter Harbison, managing director of the Centre for Asia-Pacific Aviation, said the Oneworld alliance was breaking up.
"It is a very volatile situation, the alliance is fragmenting, it's effectively imploding," he said.
Qantas is putting on a brave face and officially saying it's business as usual for Oneworld.
But that business, says Mr Harbison, is very promiscuous, with airlines jumping in and out of bed with each other to gain short-term advantages.
In fact, not one major alliance that existed 15 years ago is in place today.
Even within Australia, airlines have swapped partners. In the early 1990s Qantas was a shareholder in Air New Zealand and teamed with Ansett on domestic routes.
All that changed when Qantas bought Australian Airlines in 1994.
It dumped Ansett and sold its 19 per cent holding in Air New Zealand in 1996, when that airline bought 50 per cent of Ansett.
Oneworld has already lost its founding partner, Canadian Airlines, which was absorbed by Star Alliances' Air Canada.
Mr Harbison noted that another Oneworld partner, Cathay Pacific, has long been a bitter rival of Qantas and the fragmentation of the alliance might result in the Hong Kong-based airline also looking further afield.
There has also been speculation in the past year that British Airways might divest itself of its 25 per cent shareholding in Qantas but most analysts dismiss this.
American Airlines is in discussions with the small Swissair-led Qualiflyer Alliance. If it joined that, Qantas and British Airways might look to the uncommitted US carrier, Continental Airlines, as a new partner.
Continental, after years in the doldrums, has been revitalised to become one of the US's most successful and profitable carriers.
While the Oneworld Alliance is breaking up, its arch-rival, the bigger Star Alliance, is moving from strength to strength.
There are 13 airlines in Star, including Ansett, Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines. The group has a turnover of $119 billion.
There is also a significant equity tie-up between some members, with Singapore Airlines holding a 25 per cent stake in Air New Zealand and that airline having 100 per cent of Ansett Australia.
Many analysts have been sceptical of alliances, suggesting that in many cases airlines scrambled to join for fear of being left out.
"In many cases, these alliances have been mismatches," Mr Harbison said.
Airline2000 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2394 times:
I have confirmed this article from The West Australian Newspaper by a senior management of oneworld alliance member and am please to announce that the rumours about oneworld alliance breaking up is NOT TRUE.
Geoffrey Thomas (writer of The West Australian newspaper --- where this rumour has originally statred from) is no loger reputable in his stories and I have spoken to many tourism industry collegues about him and they confirm his credibility.
Mr Thomas is well know for taking BIAS views about airlines IF they offer him free tickets in First or Business Class. Do not believe a word Geoffrey has to offer.
As they say: oneworld alliance revolves around you!
Aer Lingus From Ireland, joined May 2000, 1599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2367 times:
Well this story would seem a lot of cock'n'bull as
Aer Lingus and Lan Chile just joined in June. Why would they bother doing so if an alliance was breaking up ? Besides I think OneWorld will now go from strength to strength as BA and KLM have now gone their separate ways since negotiations recently concluded.
Mountainridge From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2335 times:
I dont think Oneworld will break up. That newspaper article sounds like BS! American and British Airways are going to make stronger ties. Also Qantas has just signed a Code Shared thing with American so they would be stupid to give that up
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2330 times:
Before making remarks about a person's reputation and credibility (and from afar if the location in your profile is correct), try getting some facts together. Where is your proof that Geoffrey, who might I add is a great journalist and 95% of his predictions are correct, has written good stories in return for FREE First Class tickets. I want facts, not just a hit and run.
One need only look at your email address in your profile to see why you are against this report. If you are a journalist, as your profile suggests, how about showing a bit of credibility yourself, and admitting that there are some Oneworld members who are unhappy with recent goings on.
As Geoffrey stated, AA was none to happy with BA courting KL (and NW with it), when they had invested so much time and money in building their BA relationship.
In your brief post, you are also bringing into disrepute, Mr Harbison of the CAAA in Sydney, which might I add is a well respected organisation.
But in closing, if you really are a journalist would you please quote verbatim what you were told by a senior management (sic) of oneworld alliance member. I would like to know which airline it was who you spoke too.
Hey, how about you write an article based upon YOUR research, especially for airliners.net?????????
I will be waiting with anticipation for some facts from yourself.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2299 times:
While there may be problems with the credibility of the reporter who wrote this story and/or his sources of information, the Oneworld group is, in fact, having problems getting off the ground due to the inability of its primary members, BA and AA, to develop a comprehensive joint strategy, which, in turn, is due to the failure of the British and US governments to agree on a new open-skies aviation agreement. Oneworld has problems and is certainly not as successful as Star; it is true that AA has now gotten very busy with Sabena and Swissair. I have no idea if Continental fits into any of this - I have never heard anything about them joining Oneworld.
Mr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2269 times:
I agree... I hate alliances and it sometimes mean you would want to see Qantas... you get AA instead... sigh. It's the same for mergers... don't quite like them actually. Just my thoughts... I know lots of you here disagree...
MAC_Veteran From Taiwan, joined Jun 1999, 726 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2250 times:
To be quite frank and honest.....GOOD!
It's about dammn time to break up these "virtual airline trusts"!
I'm frankly tired of "airline alliances" in concept because they are overall ANTI-COMPETITIVE monopolist ventures to begin with. They are "trusts" in every concept of the word.
Why is it so difficult to concieve of the idea that airlines can carry their OWN weight, competing on the merits of their OWN product? Why is it in these days of "alliances" do we see such crap levels of product and service by some of these carriers?
Because they dont have to compete by virtue of product quality anymore. They entwine these byzantine trusts with each other to lock out competitors and carve up everything for themselves.
I've long wanted to vent and ask that question.
20+ years ago, airlines had to do a word called COMPETE. There was something unique about every single carrier out there. Nowadays we have applied and accepted the Walmart or McDonalds "concept" to air travel. One size fitting all.
These days it seems, major airlines have become a sort of elitist "Country Club" of Carriers called an "Alliance" which stack the deck for oneself not having to compete.
Overall I find it hysterical that if this 'Oneworld Implosion' Debacle proves true, that it may serve as the undoing of a huge airline alliance and who knows?..maybe others will follow and we can look forward towards better service in the future. More competition. More carriers, Better prices.
Maybe we wont need anti-trust investigations in the future gobbling up time and resources.
Ahh..the days of 'trusts'..remember them? Remember the former Morgan Merchant Marine Trust at the turn of the last Century which tried to control sea transportation companies around the world? To me this is right out of that playbook..only this time in aviation..to think that the idea may implode upon itself..going down in flames..Gosh I love it so!
Blink182 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 5499 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2218 times:
If any airline should leave(i don't mean to point fingers) It should be British Airways since if American leaves, There is no north american coverage except for the majors. Europe has more coverage with Iberia,AerLingus,and Finnair and with Oneworld airlines getting closer to Qualiflyer airlines, it only makes sense that British Airways drops out. Right from the start, the 1 problem that has not gotten this alliance off the ground is British Airways and American Airlines failed alliance with each other, I think if an airline drops out, it is going to be british airways, If AA drops out, it is much more likely join an alliance faster than BA due to AA's never ending list of partners. Plus-AA will more than likely not want to paint the bottom of their airplane's blue with "Qualiflyer" on it.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2191 times:
I dont understand how BA can go on forever with these failed attempts at either mergers or alliances. It ridiculous. from the sound of things the next scheduled round of talks between the US and UK for next week are being postpones. In the meantime the other alliances are leaving BA way behind. Its all beyond me. With this pattern of sour relations with prospective carriers you think someone at BA would get the message. Unless and until BA shows some good signs of loosening their grip at LHR the talks with other airlines will bound to fail. All the good prospective partners in Europe for BA with the exception of IB have open skies with the US. This is an issue for the UK and BA that will not go away. It must be dealt with. The sooner it is dealt with the quicker it will resolve itself. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Frozensun From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2165 times:
airline2000, how did you suddenly go from being a disgruntled singaporean staff member for "rubbish airline" singapore airline to a london-based aviation journalist? and if you are indeed an airline journalist, you really ought to brush up on your english. please, enough of your anti-SIA, pro-Cathey Pacific ranting on this board thinly disguised as "insider news" from SIA or from your "aviation journalist" job. and by the way, i'm hard pressed to believe an aviation journalist would be so unprofessional as to let everyone know from his email address where his sympathies lie.
LanChileA340 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 101 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (15 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2110 times:
As an active journalist of latinamerican aviation, I follow the strategic steps of each alliance and I am trully puzzled with the oneworld alliance case that has arisen lately. "Rumour" says that KLM and North-West are hot on the list to join the oneworld alliance, but then again it is all on the drawing boards at Sydney and London headquarters. Now about AA, to my knowledge, they have absolutely no intention of staying in the alliance. Qantas and Lan Chile are codesharing even on European sectors, Iberia also has extensive agreements with Lan Chile and then comes in Finnair and Aer Lingus who both play an important part in filling the European gaps for the "big" carriers of the oneworld alliance. Cathay Pacific is a parasite carrier for the alliance.....they are controvertial and they tend to be a terrible rival for both Qantas and BA. THEY SHOULD LEAVE !! not any other airline but them.