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CO Seeks Renewal Of Moscow Route  
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5498 posts, RR: 7
Posted (8 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf98/420505_web.pdf

CO asked the DOT for renewal of Moscow authority, saying they intend to request allocation of US-Russian frequencies "shortly". Maybe Moscow is Plan B if they don't get Shanghai.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6734 times:

Not that it's really competition per-se since DL is Skyteam as well, but this is competition on the route for DL- why don't they just do some codeshare (if they aren't already)

If they do get the route, maybe they'll codeshare then and Skyteam overall would benefit.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25759 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

Funny timing. I believe this is a defensive move by CO to both lock in its designation and also posture a little bit as their is another US carrier looking at serving Moscow and is likely to file for its own authority this winter.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Funny timing. I believe this is a defensive move by CO to both lock in its designation and also posture a little bit as their is another US carrier looking at serving Moscow and is likely to file for its own authority this winter.

A defensive move to posture, sure. It's no secret (or at least it shouldn't be, since I've been blabbing about it for a few weeks) that US desperately wanted to fly to ATH this year, and that they were willing to use very-inappropriate equipment on the route specifically so that they could beat CO into the market; since it appears that US won't be able to get its planes all the way to ATH regardless of how much it might want to weight-restrict them, US has set its sights on SVO, again with the intention of beating CO into the MOW market even if it meant using sub-optimal equipment. While I'm sure CO would have been interested in the cities anyway, it might be trying to do the same and get into the cities quickly to beat US to the punch. CO could make the first move, though, if it wanted to, as I don't expect US to make an announcement until it completes talks with Boeing regarding the possible increase of the MTOW on their 762ERs.

As for keeping the designation/frequencies, that's not an issue here, as there are more than ample of both available.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

Didn't CO want to fly into Domodedovo Airport? And what has been holding them back - lack of equipment? Bureaucracy?

And how is Delta doing with its SVO flights?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

DL's SVO flights are some of the most profitable on its system. ATL has spooled up very quickly which was part of the motivation for expanding its Eastern European presence.

CO and DL may both be in Skyteam but they are fierce competitors. I don't believe either codeshare on any flights over the Atlantic but even if they do, they do not participate in any way on originating traffic from any hubs or gateways. The government would not approve any codeshare arrangement between domestic carriers that involves cooperating for local passengers but no airline wants to share its hard earned local business with anyone. And neither CO, NW, or DL share any revenues at all. DL and CO both operate independent gateways and they compete for local passengers very aggressively.


User currently offlineMbm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 844 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6504 times:
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Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Didn't CO want to fly into Domodedovo Airport? And what has been holding them back - lack of equipment? Bureaucracy?

I think a lack of equipment, some bureaucracy, and Aeroflot joining SkyTeam put things on hold.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3011 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Didn't CO want to fly into Domodedovo Airport? And what has been holding them back - lack of equipment? Bureaucracy?

Because SU joined SkyTeam and are opening up a brand new terminal in Moscow next year, Co will definitely have to serve SVO. It's going to be a SkyTeam terminal (as well as a few other airlines). There is no longer a logical reason for serving DME. SkyTeam will be brought together.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
The government would not approve any codeshare arrangement between domestic carriers that involves cooperating for local passengers

The government would indeed approve codeshares between domestic carriers for local traffic; they do it all the time. What they generally don't allow is carriers codesharing on local traffic on *routes where the two carriers each compete with nonstop flights*, but even then there are exceptions.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7688 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

CO is a great airline and this is wonderful news for them. Does anyone know what kind of equipment would be used? My first guess is a 762. Im sure CO would fly a 757 (or even a regional jet) if it had the range.  crowded 


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 21 hours ago) and read 6016 times:

I think this has to be a Plan B...Moscow has been on the plate for a number of years...in fact DME was planned for last summer and then was pulled off...as far as equipment goes a 767 will have to be pulled from another destination again, as the 757 will never cut it...the 787's can come fast enough!!

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5498 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 21 hours ago) and read 5969 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 1):
why don't they just do some codeshare (if they aren't already)

Because they don't make any money on a codeshare. I'm not even sure they get a standard agency fee for selling the ticket.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5166 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (8 years 20 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 1):
Not that it's really competition per-se since DL is Skyteam as well, but this is competition on the route for DL- why don't they just do some codeshare (if they aren't already)

Continental has served Edinburgh for a couple of years now, but last summer Delta launched their own service to EDI, much to the annoyance of CO. There wa sno codeshare in this instance, and both carriers have continued to do well on the route.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 17 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 10):
the 787's can come fast enough!!

The way they are expanding internationally, it sounds like they might even need a seccond order of them! It seems like between Aeroflot, DL, and CO, and possibly US as discussed here, service from NY-Moscow might get a bit crowded.....



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 17 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

I hope CO gets the route. Not everyone on the planet wants to fly thru JFK you know!

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Funny timing. I believe this is a defensive move by CO to both lock in its designation and also posture a little bit as their is another US carrier looking at serving Moscow and is likely to file for its own authority this winter.

And that airline is?


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

CO has had this route for so long, hopefully the DOT will tell thim this is their last renewal, or AA/US/whatever will get the route
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 11):
Because they don't make any money on a codeshare. I'm not even sure they get a standard agency fee for selling the ticket.

While I couldn't comment on the CO/DL codeshare, the UA/US codeshare gives the booking carrier a 2-3% commission when all travel is on the other airline's metal.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):
It seems like between Aeroflot, DL, and CO, and possibly US as discussed here, service from NY-Moscow might get a bit crowded.....

Any US service would be PHL-SVO, not NYC-SVO.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 15):
And that airline is?

Read my reply 3.  Wink



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

i thin PHL-SVO for US is a good move


Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 3):
CO could make the first move, though, if it wanted to, as I don't expect US to make an announcement until it completes talks with Boeing regarding the possible increase of the MTOW on their 762ERs.

How are they going to increase the MTOW? Is it just a paper re-certification process or do they need to make new structural changes, or are the MTOWs going to be recertified to existing changes which occured after the last certification, which I assume was at delivery? Does US use the center 762ER fuel tank and was it assumed to be used (or not used) for the initial MTOW certification?


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Too bad AA isn't showing much interest in Moscow. I would think ORD-SVO would be a very good flight for them.

User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

Didn't AA try to enter Russia in the 90s and have trouble with the government?
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
My first guess is a 762. Im sure CO would fly a 757 (or even a regional jet) if it had the range.

Doubtful...CO is using 757's on routes that otherwise wouldn't have service for the most part...places where a 757 is maximum capacity on the route. Moscow is far from this - they should have no problem filling a 767.


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7688 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):
Doubtful...CO is using 757's on routes that otherwise wouldn't have service for the most part...places where a 757 is maximum capacity on the route. Moscow is far from this - they should have no problem filling a 767.

I was being sarcastic. A 757 much less a regional jet would never have the range. I occasionally poke fun at CO for flying narrowbodies like the 757 for very long distances as well as flying EMB145's for flights that are over 3 hours long. I have no doubt that CO can fill a 767 between SVO and EWR.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 23):
I was being sarcastic

Well you said if it had the range, and I could totally see CO opening up a TON of eastern european routes if the 757 had the legs. Not necesarilly Moscow, but St. Petersburg, Helsinki, Warsaw, Budapest, maybe even Kiev...the list goes on and on.


25 A330323X : Just a software change, nothing structural. And it certainly won't get them to anything near the MTOW of CO's birds, just more than they have now--wh
26 WorldTraveler : I believe you pretty much repeate exactly what I said although I didn't include exceptions because there aren't a whole lot of them, esp. in markets
27 SW733 : Well...not long ago most people thought Bristol-Newark was a zero carrier market...but with the 757, they made it work. I'm not arguing that they wil
28 Klwright69 : That was just hysterical, we were all laughing our heads off! We haven't seen that kind of humor here in a long time. But they don't have the range..
29 Levg79 : NYC has the biggest Russian community in the US so JFK-SVO flights just simply have to be profitable. But what about ATL? Do they have a lot of conti
30 WorldTraveler : as I said, ATLSVO has quickly become one of DL's best transatlantic routes... the DL insiders will have to tell you how they do it but DOT statistics
31 UN_B732 : SU is not flying to ORD. UA might have a chance with ORD-SVO, but I don't know. VV (AeroSvit) has applied to fly ORD-KBP, but since ukraine is a categ
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