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Island Air Signs LOI For S/H On West Coast  
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

Island Air may expand to Vegas
The interisland carrier has signed a letter of intent
to begin short-haul flights on the mainland

By Dave Segal, Honolulu Star-Bulletin

Island Air, seeking to reduce its risk in the crowded interisland market, has signed a letter of intent to conduct mainland operations with an undisclosed party using the 78-seat Bombardier Q400 airplane that Island Air recently took out of service and two other Q400s ordered but not yet delivered.

Chief Executive Robert Mauracher confirmed the deal yesterday but said final contract negotiations were still being worked out, and he wasn't prepared yet to disclose the location of the operations or the routes that will be served.

However, a person familiar with the situation said Island Air was going to be operating out of Las Vegas, possibly from a regional airport, to other cities in the U.S. West.

Mauracher said he could neither confirm nor deny the hub city. He said Island Air will be flying on behalf of another company.

"It will be very similar to what we do here, except that we'll do it on the mainland," he said. "It won't be Island Air, but our contract will be an outsourcing of services to a different party. The name will be different, but it will be operated under an Island Air certificate using Island Air employees. If things materialize like we assume, we hope to be operating by the end of the first quarter of next year."

Mauracher said Island Air still plans to remain in the Hawaii market. The regional carrier operates 103 daily interisland flights with eight 37-seat Bombardier Dash-8s. Island Air had planned to bring the three Q400s to Hawaii, but later reconsidered that move after the new interisland carrier go! stormed the market with low ticket prices.
...to finish article

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Photo © Je89 W.



[Edited 2006-10-24 17:00:31]


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5892 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5936 times:
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Very interesting! I wonder if they'll work with fledgling Vision Air to expand service.

User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5858 times:

Definitely a great way to out the Q400s to use. Smart move on WP's part.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5808 times:

Do I see a pending tie-in with those Animal-Tails from DEN?...

I guess if Mesa can GO! Hawaiian, then why shouldn't the Islands go to Vegas...

The plot continues to thicken (and boil!)

bb


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3412 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5798 times:

I too instantly though about an F9 partnership - but if it's Vegas - maybe it's US(HP)?

A longshot could also be a tie-in with WN (I know it's unlikely, but you they seem overdue for one of thier 'surprise' announcements).

How about Allegiant Express or Allegiant Connection???


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 4):
I too instantly though about an F9 partnership - but if it's Vegas - maybe it's US(HP)?

That is possible, but Frontier has already gone to work creating a wholy-owned subsidiary to do the Q400 flying. I am thinking more of a HP/US thing to reduce their CR2 flying with Mesa and improve economics on a lot of routes.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 4):

How about Allegiant Express or Allegiant Connection???

Not a chance. It doesn't fit their business model



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21477 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5785 times:

This might just be a stab at Mesa. You come into our turf, we'll go into yours.

For all those who said Go! would help the hawaiian market, what do you think now? You are now about to lose your newest airframes to Las Vegas, and they have been replaced by old CRJs instead. The fares are too low to sustain, and you will see fallout.

You want something but expect to pay next to nothing? Expect to get next to nothing in the long run.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5784 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
This might just be a stab at Mesa. You come into our turf, we'll go into yours.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too

Still, someone needs to learn their geography, because Vegas isn't on any coast.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1023 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 5755 times:

Check out this article from the Denver Post dated 9/10. It doesn't say any thing about Island Air but look at the pictures of the Q400 in Denver carefully. Click on the small picture in the article. Interesting...

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4316084


T prop


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3412 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5732 times:

from the above posted article:

"It won't be Island Air, but our contract will be an outsourcing of services to a different party. The name will be different, but it will be operated under an Island Air certificate using Island Air employees."

Maybe Lynx is the "differant" name (party) and the planes will be wholly owned by F9. Maybe Island Air will "operate" Lynx for F9 "under an Island Air certificate using Island Air employees."

seems to match up pretty well to me...


User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1980 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

Question for the DEN spotters...

Was this N539DS or the second one that never made it out to HNL? The pictures on the post don't shed a clue as to the tail number.

Thanks



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21477 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Still, someone needs to learn their geography, because Vegas isn't on any coast.

But the claim was they would be flying to the west coast. Vegas to LA/SF/SD, etc. Maybe Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, SNA, etc.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5609 times:

On a recent thread, there was a discussion about F9 announcing SFO-LAS service. I proposed the idea of a F9 mini-hub/mini-Key/mini-Focus in Vegas with service to other F9 cities in CA. This thread's announcement, and my post earlier on this thread...

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Do I see a pending tie-in with those Animal-Tails from DEN?...
I guess if Mesa can GO! Hawaiian, then why shouldn't the Islands go to Vegas...

...more (smaller cities) than I originally envisioned... more puzzle-pieces fitting together?

What do ya' say, Mariner?...

bb


User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

Quoting Kalakaua (Thread starter):
78-seat Bombardier Q400

What is the seat pitch with that many seats? A normal QX Q400 has 74 seats at about 31" pitch, so Island Air's must be around 30". That's pretty cramped! Q400 service to LAS from other western cities (TUS Big grin) would be nice. I'd probably buy a ticket just for the ride.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25015 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5554 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
What do ya' say, Mariner?...

I'm scratching my head. It certainly fits - but for one thing:

Quoting Kalakaua (Thread starter):
Island Air was going to be operating out of Las Vegas, possibly from a regional airport

A "regional" airport? That isn't the standard Frontier pattern, they would use LAS. Or, let me correct myself, they always have. But life is about change?

Hey - it's possible, it would make a great deal of sense and fit in with Frontier's new California/West strategy.

It wouldn't answer the question about a provider for regional jets (CR7 or E170?) for Frontier Jet Express, though.

 confused 

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

Maybe they will be serving VGT to various short hop citys. I personally have seen a 737 at VGT, and it is right next to numerous smaller hotels and casinos. Not to mention, it is only 20-30 minutes from the Strip.


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5358 times:

N539DS "Island Beauty", was the Q400 that was flown in Hawai‘i. N814WP "Island Style", was supposed to be the next Q400 to arrive. Each of the Q400s would have each of the 3 tail designs.

If there is an F9 connection, it could also tie into the Hawai‘i market, since AQ and HA have a code-share alliance with WP. One thing is certain, F9's Airbus fleet would have to be ETOPS-certified, should they plan to expand westward.

Should be interesting to see what continues to evolve out of all this.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25015 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5214 times:
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I've thought bout this one, and I've asked around - and I'm still scratchin' my head.

If it is Vegas (or near), then the simple answer is to assume that it isn't for any airline, but for a hotel/casino operator - Harrah's? - and that it could as easily be out of Bullhead/Laughlin.

Against that is the fact that it is only a 3 x Q400 fleet, which is not necessarily a problem if it is, say, IFP or a regional Vegas airport.

I guess it could be a major, but it is only a three aircraft fleet, with little chance of getting more for a year or so.

Which leaves - Horizon?

They are losing 16 (?) x Q200's but getting back (over a year) 9 x CR7's from Frontier. They already fly the Q400's, so a sub-fleet of 3, even operated by someone else, could be a nice addition to the fleet, and cover any schedule issues from the loss of the Q200's.

But somehow, it doesn't feel like Horizon's style. Nor - quite - Frontier's.

The big virtue is it means that they could get Frontier Express flying in time for the busy summer.

Presently, the first (F9) Q400 arrives in May, and the second in July. Buena fortuna getting any halfway decent network up before the end of summer.

Tom Nunn of Lynx has said that the first destinations will be "non-mountain". That would be right for Vegas, but this would mean that Frontier's "western dreams" are as big as some hoped, but bigger than we had all suspected.

The small Island sub-fleet could be flying from March but against that - would it take the gloss of Frontier's own operation?

Then again - a few of us have been wondering what Frontier is going to do with all their aircraft, in the sense of where to put them.

Assuming everything goes to plan, Frontier will be adding a minimum of 30 and probably as many as 40 aircraft over the next two years.

Is there room for all these aircraft at DIA given the gate space limitations of terminal A? I have assumed that some of the aircraft (some of the Jet Express fleet?) will be based "somewhere else".

And if it is Frontier/Lynx/Island, then Frontier, with all those Q400's on order, could easily assign a couple to Island if they wanted to build up that fleet.

And if Island is based in (say) Vegas, then it provides some clear sky between the Frontier/Lynx operation at DEN and the Lynx/Island sub-fleet at LAS (or where ever).

But - would it be overly complicated for Frontier/Lynx and, again, would it take the gloss of that? So - I can argue my way around both sides of this, and the simple answer is:

I'm still scratchin' my head.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Mariner, I'd be scratchin' my head too if wasn't spinning so fast! Yes, I think you covered every pro-and-con of every situation possible; very complete coverage of a large and growing puzzle... Thank you.

I could certainly envision lots of Qs running around the desert to/from and in between LAS, PHX, LAX, SAN, FAT, including places like Bullhead, Yuma. Flagstaff, Kingman, St. George, El Centro, Palm Springs, Bakersfield, Palomar/Carlsbad, etc. Eventually, more intra-CA service would logically follow...

Kinda reminds me of the route maps in the old days of Bonanza and their fleet of hard-working F-27s buzzing all over the Southwest corner of the country.

bb


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
But the claim was they would be flying to the west coast. Vegas to LA/SF/SD, etc. Maybe Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, SNA, etc.

I really doubt they could compete with the much larger traffic from the majors flying on Vegas-LA/SF/SD/SNA. SBA and SBP are possible, though they already have competition at SBA and SBP already is being drawn from by G4's SMX-LAS flights.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
Very interesting! I wonder if they'll work with fledgling Vision Air to expand service.

Very much doubt it; the beauty about Vision Air from IWA to VGT is no TSA involvement, which would happen with the larger aircraft.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25015 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5016 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
I really doubt they could compete with the much larger traffic from the majors flying on Vegas-LA/SF/SD/SNA.

But - who couldn't?

If they - whoever "they" are - have any Harrah's (say) backing, they'd probably be okay, especially if it was for Bullhead/Laughlin. Or Elko, perhaps?

If it is Horizon, they could probably compete. And these do seem to be changing times.

I was checking Travelocity SFO-LAX earlier today, and, for the next three days in that direction, Frontier was not the cheapest fare.

The majors - UA, AA and AS - were all undercutting, by $10, the LCC.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21477 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4997 times:

Quoting RW717 (Reply 15):
Not to mention, it is only 20-30 minutes from the Strip.

That's 1 hour of not gambling and drinking. Doesn't fit with the vegas vacation model for regional flights. Is it all business they are after?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4986 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
If they - whoever "they" are - have any Harrah's (say) backing, they'd probably be okay, especially if it was for Bullhead/Laughlin. Or Elko, perhaps?

Laughlin is a different place than Las Vegas. The last casino backed airline flying into Vegas, National, failed despite using very low CASM, mainline aircraft that they could actually sell seats on.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
I was checking Travelocity SFO-LAX earlier today, and, for the next three days in that direction, Frontier was not the cheapest fare.

The majors - UA, AA and AS - were all undercutting, by $10, the LCC.

And don't forget OAK, which is just as easy to San Francisco as SFO.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25015 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4973 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Laughlin is a different place than Las Vegas.

But we only have an assumption by the reporter - or the "person familiar with the deal" - that it is Vegas, or a regional airport nearby.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
The last casino backed airline flying into Vegas, National, failed despite using very low CASM,

I doubt that Harrah's would back (at least, entirely) an airline flying into LAS. I'm not sure they need to.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
And don't forget OAK, which is just as easy to San Francisco as SFO.

Sorry, I am probably being dumb, but I'm not sure how that affects the point that I was making about the majors versus the LCC.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Alias1024 : I agree with Mariner. This doesn't feel like Frontier or Horizon. What about AQ? Wasn't there a rumor that Aloha was looking to expand their west coas
26 AirTranTUS : Something to link cities that cannot support direct Hawaii service or are too far awya for the 73G's? Aloha only operates 4x weekly to LAS though, an
27 Post contains links Clickhappy : any connection to this RE: Unknown Airline Plans Hub At CHD/IWA (by Thegooddoctor Nov 26 2005 in Civil Aviation) And wasn't there a thread about some
28 FATFlyer : I'm beginning to lean toward Wedgetail's thought in the 1st post. Vision Air has wanted to develop a network of small cities to Vegas. They've started
29 Post contains links Bluewave 707 : The Q400 has left HNL for the mainland today. http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2840877/
30 PVD757 : so if the first aircraft has already left, we should hear something pretty soon about what is actually going on - no?
31 PSA727 : I think that US would be the best choice. If they're going to use these planes to fly out of smaller markets on the West Coast to LAS, then they will
32 Post contains images Mariner : Sorry, but I don't see that one, and for a reason you state. As far as I know, US has no other Q400's on order (?), so it would be that - a sub-fleet
33 Hawaiian717 : Frontier does make some sense. The Island Air aircraft could be used to help jump-start their Q400 operation, and once Lynx gets their own Q400 fleet
34 PSA727 : Actually, I believe that USex carrier Piedmont is looking at the Q400s as a replacement/upgrade to some of their Dash 8s.
35 F9Animal : Harrah's got burned by National, and they are doing fine with charters. I can't see them jump-starting F9's operation. It would not be a long term $$
36 Mariner : I'm sure that's so. I'm sure a lot of people are looking at them. Someone called the E170/E190 an "industry changing aircraft", but I suspect the rea
37 Hawaiian717 : Island Air. At least what I take away from the press reports is that Island Air really does just need something short term. go! has destabilized the
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