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Any Chance Of IND-SAN Non-stop?  
User currently offlineConjureMe From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

I remember reading that Northwest was rumored to try a non-stop flight from Indianapolis to San Diego (However this was almost a year ago and it was in this forum). Is there any chance that Northwest or AirTran try this route?

There is the IND-SFO that started about a year ago IIRC, and also IND-LAX. If these are performing well enough, is there a chance that some of Northwest's Indy expansion could include SAN?


Never let the plane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes ago.
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

ConjureMe, you might find this thread of interest: "New Routes For Airtran In '07?"

(BTW, I have noted lots of mention on this forum in the last couple of years about NW and SAN; unfortunately, nothing has ever come of any of it.)

bb


User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

It would be nice if NWA would start to connect the dots to cities like SAN, PDX, year round service to SEA, but i just don't know what the demand is for placed like SAN, and PDX for year round service anyone have any idea?

Eric



"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3121 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5015 times:
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SAN doesn't even have any nonstop flights to Memphis these days unless you travel as cargo on FedEx. How many people travel between SAN and IND on a daily basis? I'd imagine demand isn't really there.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 3):
How many people travel between SAN and IND on a daily basis?

Lindy, to answer your question: according to FareMeasure, 289 O&D pax/day. Not exactly chicken spit. Add some connecting traffic, as FL would, and I see no problem with a n/s a day minimum.

bb


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9405 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

Indianapolis to San Diego is a route that would probably perform well. The problem is, AirTran doesn't serve there from Atlanta yet and I highly doubt they'd go into a new city cold without doing it from Atlanta first. Plus they would need to be committed to flying out west year around, instead of seasonal, if they want to get and keep the business.

Northwest probably won't the start the service first anytime in the near future unless AirTran or another carrier does, then two nonstops per day could possibly ruin the service altogether.

Thinking outside the box a little bit, it would be nice to see maybe Frontier start such a service.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

You would think with the following NWA has here at IND they would atleast try the route? MEM is a different breed I think.


"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3121 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4991 times:
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In the case of AirTran coming to SAN, I'd imagine that gate space could be a problem as the airport gets rather full overnight and again at midday. I'd like to see AirTran at SAN but I worry that they might be too successful and lead Delta to pull back capacity on the ATL-SAN run, which offers some of the only PAX flights on widebody equipment out of SAN. The other heavies at SAN come courtesy of Hawaiian Air and various cargo operators.

User currently offlineFedexexpress From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4983 times:

LoL
I just want IND to get service to SAN i sure would use it alot...



"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting Fedexexpress (Reply 2):
...but i just don't know what the demand is for places like SAN, and PDX for year round service anyone have any idea?

As I've posted previously on this forum, there apparently is a popular misconception in the US (and world?) that the 7th largest city in America is a summer-only, resort-type, seaside town that is boarded up in the winter! Sure, there is a great increase in summer travel to SAN, as there is with any city in the US, but the military, the commerce, the tech and bio industries, the cruise and tourist industries and the weather do not go away from September to April! Grrrr! I could go on and on but I won't.

I am actually in the Pacific Northwest now and there is a tremendous difference between summer and winter here so seasonal service to PDX or even SEA wouldn't surprise me as much.

bb


User currently offlineJeremy From United States of America, joined May 2001, 668 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

I believe there should be a SAN-IND, but will it happen?
Who knows.
With Eli Lilly based in IND and all of the medical labs in the La jolla area it would make sense. That is one reason IND-RDU does so well.



You are now free to be sexually harassed and then terminated for filing a complaint--Southwest Airlines to me.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6775 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Quoting Jeremy (Reply 10):
That is one reason IND-RDU does so well.

Except Lilly pulled out of the RTP area about a month before NW started the RDU-IND service.. so that can't be one of the reasons..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9235 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
Lindy, to answer your question: according to FareMeasure, 289 O&D pax/day. Not exactly chicken spit. Add some connecting traffic, as FL would, and I see no problem with a n/s a day minimum.

 checkmark 

FL is growing IND, so perhaps they would look into this route with one 73G daily. With those numbers anyway, I'd have to say that that should support one daily FL 737...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

It is actually surprising that WN does not operate this route already, IMO.


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

MEM-SAN is the perfect route for an aircraft like the A318... surprising that NW doesn't even place a small order of these for these longer/thin routes from hubs, (DTW-GEG/BOI would be another example)....perhaps the E195 with its 1750 mi range will hit some of these spots, i think the E190/195 could likely hit just about any spot in the continental US from MEM....perhaps NW will choose to deploy some in this manner.


Go Blue!!
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4949 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

Quoting Fjnovak1 (Reply 14):
MEM-SAN is the perfect route for an aircraft like the A318... surprising that NW doesn't even place a small order of these for these longer/thin routes from hubs, (DTW-GEG/BOI would be another example)....perhaps the E195 with its 1750 mi range will hit some of these spots, i think the E190/195 could likely hit just about any spot in the continental US from MEM....perhaps NW will choose to deploy some in this manner.

Yeah, the EMB-195 would be great for restarting MEM-SAN... How many have NW ordered?

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 7):
In the case of AirTran coming to SAN, I'd imagine that gate space could be a problem as the airport gets rather full overnight and again at midday. I'd like to see AirTran at SAN but I worry that they might be too successful and lead Delta to pull back capacity on the ATL-SAN run, which offers some of the only PAX flights on widebody equipment out of SAN. The other heavies at SAN come courtesy of Hawaiian Air and various cargo operators.

If there was no room at the terminal, wouldn't the a/c just be parked at the remotes on the north side of the airport? I see DL and NW aircraft there all the time...

And though I understand the concern about DL cutting back if FL starts at SAN, I don't think it'll have too much of an effect... DL may cut back a frequency, or downgrade a 757 to a 738 or something, but I don't think 1 daily FL flight will spell the end of DL 763s at SAN...

Of course, what do I know? We'll have to see if they actually come to SAN and then go from there...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9405 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):

FL is growing IND, so perhaps they would look into this route with one 73G daily. With those numbers anyway, I'd have to say that that should support one daily FL 737...

yes but would it support both the inevitable Northwest Airbus that gets put on the route in addition to the FL 737?



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9235 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
yes but would it support both the inevitable Northwest Airbus that gets put on the route in addition to the FL 737?

Ugh, you have a point there. NW is the big fish for now in the pond known as IND... Rather interesting though, IND, a duel focus city for NW and FL...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

I assume NW will jump this route before FL does. Just a hunch that is all.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9405 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
I assume NW will jump this route before FL does. Just a hunch that is all.

I doubt that. If they were going to make a move on the route, they would have done it by now. I have a feeling at this point and time they are pleased with the way Indianapolis is going and most of their future moves there will be based on what AirTran is doing.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4570 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

They will no doubt react to FL. But they also have alot of idle time that needs to be filled up to get the most bang for the buck when it comes to their gate leases. 44 or so flights a day for 8 gates seems a little low especially when nearly a third of the flights are gone in the first couple hours of the day.

[Edited 2006-10-26 08:32:37]


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

As I said before...

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
I have noted lots of mention on this forum in the last couple of years about NW and SAN; unfortunately, nothing has ever come of any of it.

Other than 3-4 MSP and 2-3 DTW hub flights, NW doesn't know SAN exists. In the long-ago past, we did have a MEM flight (for maybe a year?) and a LAX flight (a tag-on to the NRT-LAX r/t.) That's it.

I think early last year or maybe in 2004, this forum was ripe with "NW going SAN-Hawaii" rumors. Since that rumor, PDX got a flight to HNL. Therefore, NW now flies from HNL to LAX, SFO, PDX and SEA. What obvious, underserved, West Coast market is missing from this scene? Go figure...

I would be ultra shocked if NW did anything in the way of expansion from SAN. The only thing that intrigues me is the fact that NW still has 2+ gates at Lindbergh, (26, 24, & 22, "shared" with AQ and HP), for 6 or 7 daily flights. I might expect a cx in bk would try to save some bucks by releasing unnecessary airport assets around the system. (Except for the idea of keeping the gates so nobody else can have them...)

I was actually going to say what RW said above:

Quoting RW717 (Reply 13):
It is actually surprising that WN does not operate this route already, IMO.

This is just the kind of route that WN likes to do: unexpected, easy to start as both cities are already healthy WN stations, and good O&D numbers. Look at AUS, ELP, BNA, MSY (pre-Katrina), and SAT -- all served n/s from SAN by WN and not even a glint in anyone elses' eye! You never know what kind of surprises might show up in the next WN flight schedule.

I would be very happy to see a n/s from Lindbergh to IND but I sure wouldn't count on it being a plane with a compass on its red tail!

bb


User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4949 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
I think early last year or maybe in 2004, this forum was ripe with "NW going SAN-Hawaii" rumors. Since that rumor, PDX got a flight to HNL. Therefore, NW now flies from HNL to LAX, SFO, PDX and SEA. What obvious, underserved, West Coast market is missing from this scene? Go figure...

I think NW missed the boat on SAN-Hawaii services, now that 3 airlines serve HNL and OGG from SAN (HA,AQ,UA)... They had a chance when it was just HA, they could have easily put a 757-300 on the route and been successful, but alas... they didn't, and now they probably won't be able to profitably fly SAN-Hawaii even on a 757-200...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5462 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Yes, '747, I agree that NW had their best opportunity when the market was REALLY ripe (pre-AQ and UA); I was just using that as another example of NW's inability to see anything south of LAX!

I will say, however, that I don't think SD-Hawaii is saturated yet. In the old days, when WA, UA and DL were serving (and "unserving") the market, the fares were dirt cheap and yields were horrible; even while serving the market, cx complained that they made no money and, when FF programs started, they were just carrying "non-rev's" on their flights. (Remember when you could pay the already-cheap r/t fare to HNL and get additional outer Islands for $6.67 each?!)

Things have changed and I believe yields are much better and fewer Reward seats are offered so a popular market like SD-HNL should certainly be able to support at least 2 or 3 n/s a day. I certainly hope UA will seriously re-enter the market but who knows. I'm sure AQ will re-enter when they have available equipment. US rumors surface now and then... I'm sure if unchallenged, HA will eventually put an additional flight on the HNL run and gladly keep all the money for themselves!

OGG? I'm kinda surprised that we are still seeing 2 daily (HA and AQ) permanent flights on that route but I wouldn't expect any more. I've half expected AQ to move their trip to maybe HNL or even KOA rather than fight that big, beautiful, 264-seat 767 with Pualani on the tail 365 days a year!

Oh yeah, back to IND... (sorry) Embarrassment ... see my earlier posts.

bb


User currently offlineTrijetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
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Anyone think Airtran could fill a IND-SAN, do they even have a ATL-SAN?


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
25 EVA777SEA : I might be mistaken but wasn't there a thread earlier about UA cutting its SAN-HNL route?
26 Trvlr : It was always supposed to be a seasonal weekend service. Don't know if it will be returning next summer. Aaron G.
27 DCAYOW : While it was supposed to be seasonal, it performed so well at bad times, they will reintroduce it next month at better times and for all intents and
28 Post contains images SANFan : ...as long as we're still talking about HNL... Just to provide some detail to DCAYOW's post: UA's Sat. only flight actually stopped at the end of Augu
29 MEACEDAR : I don't think NWA would ever open this route because they already opened quite a few new routes to AMS from Hartford and one more (not sure).
30 Coronado990 : UA had dedicated 1-stop direct flight from SAN to HNL via LAX as early as OCT 1967. I can still remember when the "Stretch-8" was introduced on that
31 Post contains links and images SANFan : Right on, C990! I had forgotten about PA being in the running for the coveted SAN-HNL run. Who knows what might have happened to SAN's long aviation h
32 Junction : I agree. I was really surprised to see here that there is no non-stop service from SAN to IND. But even more surprising to me is that the only non-st
33 PavlovsDog : Ind-San sounds like a great route for SkyBus. I imagine that with a low cost structure they could beat NW in Indy.
34 RwSEA : IND-SEA has operated the last two summers, supposedly with very high load factors. That said, SEA has a few things going for it that SAN/PDX don't, i
35 Post contains images DavestanKSAN : For RON's yep they would. But it's getting so crowed with all the RON's that it's becoming harder to find space to park the a/c. Almost every inch of
36 SANFan : Yes Gentlemen, you're certainly right; my calculations show that in August, there were typically 55 scheduled RONs at Lindbergh, not including the Co
37 Post contains images Steeler83 : UA had the basic colors up through the late 1970s? I thought they had that big red/blue "U" starting circa 1974. Perhaps this didn't get the mx job u
38 San747 : That would help the taxiway situation, the parking situation, and make spotting easier at SAN! I didn't even know those buildings still served a purp
39 Post contains images DavestanKSAN : Indeed, that's a great idea. Late at night when we would go empty the lav carts    at the lav cart dumping spot down by the end of 27, it was prett
40 Burnsie28 : NW has one of the lowest CASM's per seat mile now, and thats if SkyBus even really flies, not to mention, NW has a ton of loyal FF out of Indy now.
41 Indy : That they do. They also have 25% of the passenger base at IND on a month to month basis. It has been slowly climbing which of course makes routes lik
42 Post contains links SANFan : Hey Dave and San747, regarding my above-mentioned question, I discovered something on the SAN website that I didn't realize existed: the Revised Noti
43 San747 : " target=_blank>http://www.san.org/documents/amp/Rev...R.pdf Are these just ideas? Or are they actual plans for expanding the current facility at SAN?
44 SANFan : Morning San747. They're as close to specific plans for expansion as I've seen yet. I don't know what the exact process is and this "Preparation of a
45 Lindy Field : Hello SANFan, Thanks for digging up this report. It made for very interesting reading. Since I expect the Miramar proposition will be voted down, I im
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