Toering From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6332 times:
My flight tracker shows a NW flight 26D..... whats the "D" all about? Its a 744 so I don't think its cargo. I think it started in asia someplace, in bound to DTW. In fact, flightaware has the origin listed as 4817N/16040E. Is that some remote airport? Never seen this before.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6304 times:
Quoting Toering (Thread starter): In fact, flightaware has the origin listed as 4817N/16040E. Is that some remote airport? Never seen this before.
That is most likely the lat/lon where it filed to enter US Airspace (although doesn't look correct) ...that would be somewhere nr Austria I think...it came from Tokyo, so isn't right.
Someone else can explain the letters....airlines have different meanings/purposes. BA often use them at the end of flight numbers.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6232 times:
Ive seen some flight numbers into RDU (US, AA, DL, NW have all had them).. that were somethin like 734A, etc...
what does the A mean? I know Air Wisconsin had a couple of those for sure.
Cloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2425 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6226 times:
Delayed/Diverted, different airlines has different conventions - that's an IATA flight number.
ICAO callsigns usually mirror the IATA flight number but sometimes to avoid callsign confusion on R/T (eg something like BAW213/BAW273 in the same sector) a letter is appended to the end or a different callsign is used all together.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6220 times:
Quoting Antonovman (Reply 2): it probably means diversion, thats maybe why theres no airport code there
The lat/lon is commonly used when the flight plan is filed enroute...for example, new callsign (as might be the case here), or entering US airspace and no plan exists.
No doubt this is the RJAA-DTW flight NW26.
A common reason for the letters is to differentiate from another flight with the same callsign if it's delayed significantly...because ATC cannot have 2 flights in the system with the same callsign....so perhaps there was another NWA26 around?
Some airlines also use it for delayed flights....or in this case could be diversion.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
SpeedBird203 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 292 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6105 times:
There is a British Airways flight from Boston to London with a letter in it, Its British Airways Flight 45B, I don't know what the letter is about either... Always confused me, never thought to make a post about it though.
TIMEAIR From Canada, joined May 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5940 times:
Some airlines use the letters to
a) represent the flight leg (i.e. Flt 123 operates AAA-BBB-CCC, Flt123A would represent the flight from AAA-BBB and 123B would represent flight from BBB-CCC
b) represent an International or Domestic segment
For example..Flt 38 ops PVG-LAX-DFW, flt 38 would represent PVG-LAX and 38D would represent LAX-DFW as a "Domestic" flight (if operated by a US based carrier in this case)
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5417 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5929 times:
There are many flights operated by multiple airlines where there may be confusion on a congested frequency, or along multiple frequencies. To ease the issue, ATC started allowing flights to amend a letter to the last 2 digits of a flight to allow ease of recognition. At first it was just A and B, but that still proved to be very confusing to ATC and pilots alike. Now they use all letters of the alphabet to allow for less near-indentical call signs.
TIMEAIR also raises another aspect of the issue, where multi-leg, multi-aircraft flight numbers could present an issue if the second flight bearing that callsign tookoff before the original flight arrived.
[Edited 2006-10-26 05:21:49]
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5916 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 8):
TIMEAIR also raises another aspect of the issue, where multi-leg, multi-aircraft flight numbers could present an issue if the second flight bearing that callsign tookoff before the original flight arrived.
That happens at my airline occasionally and we do just this... the 2nd flight gets an amended callsign.
N723GW From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 232 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5849 times:
I don't know if it is correct, but I thaught I heard once that a letter indicated human remains were on board. Don't quote me on it, but it seems interesting
Curmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22 Reply 12, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5831 times:
No, the letters don't indicate human remains. In fact, there is a teletype code used in the cargo message (internal document) to signify that. (All special cargoes have a discreet code for the information of the destination station)
Alpha characters are used for the reasons described above. Another use is when 'extra sections' are employed. These hark back to the old railroad days, when an 'extra' would be run to cater for spikes in traffic. I used to work for a carrier that used 'extras' a lot to prove demand before adding frequency to certain city pairs.
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5796 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3): what does the A mean? I know Air Wisconsin had a couple of those for sure.
I can answer that. As anyone who flies regularly knows, one "Flight" will often have multiple segments, for example 3792 might be from DAY to PHL, then continue on to SYR. Because of the way our operation is set up, there will often be an aircraft change on this flight in PHL, and a crew change as well. Now lets say there is a delay program into PHL and the DAY flight is late, but the crew and the plane that are doing the PHL-SYR segment are both already in PHL. We will try to run the second segment on time and we treat it operationally as a separate flight. Now he gets going and DAY to PHL also gets going. Now you have two flight 3792's in New York Center. That is not a good idea for many reasons. What we do to avoid that is we will use the full flight number for the first segment, then the second segment we will drop the 3 (or 40 for 4000 flight numbers), and use the remaining digits with the A added onto the end. So in our example, the PHL-SYR segment would be 792A.
StealthZ From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5424 posts, RR: 49 Reply 14, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5759 times:
Quoting Toering (Thread starter): In fact, flightaware has the origin listed as 4817N/16040E. Is that some remote airport? Never seen this before.
That is most likely the lat/lon where it filed to enter US Airspace (although doesn't look correct) ...that would be somewhere nr Austria I think...it came from Tokyo, so isn't right.
Well no, that Lat/Lon is in the North Pacific not far off the great circle route between NRT & DTW which funnily enough is where you would likely find Northwest flight 26 most days!!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5730 times:
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14): Well no, that Lat/Lon is in the North Pacific not far off the great circle route between NRT & DTW which funnily enough is where you would likely find Northwest flight 26 most days!!
Yes, remember 180E and 180W are both at about the International Date Line (excluding where it deviates from that meridian), so 160E is the same as 20 degrees west of the date line.
British 289 from PHX-LHR has been in FlightAware as BAW28F for quite some time now, although last year it was just BAW289.
ADXMatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 933 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5702 times:
Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 15): British 289 from PHX-LHR has been in FlightAware as BAW28F for quite some time now, although last year it was just BAW289.
I can't speak for BA but at a previous airline I worked for ATC asked us to change our flight number because another airline flight with the same flight number is in the same airspace at the same time as ours. Since it takes marketing forever to change a flight number we just added an "A" to it.
Even though 2 different airlines with flight 123 ATC doesn't like it. They're afraid the wrong flight will respond.
Curmudgeon From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 695 posts, RR: 22 Reply 18, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5620 times:
Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 16): I can't speak for BA but at a previous airline I worked for ATC asked us to change our flight number because another airline flight with the same flight number is in the same airspace at the same time as ours. Since it takes marketing forever to change a flight number we just added an "A" to it.
Even though 2 different airlines with flight 123 ATC doesn't like it. They're afraid the wrong flight will respond.
I used to fly weekend charters to Atlantic City, NJ (East Coast gambling HQ back then). Every 2-bit airline had a flight arriving Friday night with either a "711" or "21" flight number until the FAA finally put a stop to it. For a while there it was chaos with clearances often being accepted by the wrong crews.
Bond007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5568 times:
Quoting StealthZ (Reply 14): Well no, that Lat/Lon is in the North Pacific not far off the great circle route between NRT & DTW which funnily enough is where you would likely find Northwest flight 26 most days!!
Yeah, I knew I got my N/S/E/Ws mixed up somewhere!
So, it's basically just the point they were at when they filed or amended the flight plan. It's actually not uncommon to see, although it's often a fix, not a lat/lon, if there is one nearby of course.
Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
EGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 503 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5540 times:
Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 17): Thomas Cook UK has letters in their Flight Numbers. Usually it's L inbound and K outbound. JMC did the same thing before Thomas Cook took over.
Example would be:
TCX033L Toronto - Manchester (MAN)
TCX420K Manchester - Arrecife (ACE)
I'm not sure what the L and the K stand for though
The K and the L don't actually stand for anything, they are simply used to represent outbound and inbound flights.
Britannia used to use a similar system, e.g. BY087A outbound, BY087B inbound.
Air 2000/First Choice similarly used/use a 'C' on the end of the flight number for outbound e.g. AMM123C/FCA123C, and a 'D' on the inbound leg e.g. AMM123D/FCA123D. However, I believe this was/is only used on the charter flights, not their scheduled ops.
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