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China LoI 20 A350-XWB, "To Buy 150 A320"  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16778 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Airbus CO-CEO Mr Loius Gallois has confirmed that China has agreed to start the production line of the A320 in Tainjin with first delivery in 2009 in addition;

- China have signed an LoI for 20 x A350-XWB
- China have "ordered" 150 A320s (Not clear whether this is a new order or affirmation of last years GTA)

It's headlines from a press briefing currently being held in Beijing

Fair use excerpt; http://www.bloomberg.com

*AIRBUS SAYS FIRST CHINA-MADE A320 PLANE WILL BE READY IN 2009
*AIRBUS SAYS IT WILL START A320 ASSEMBLY LINE IN TIANJIN, CHINA
*CHINA TO SIGN LETTER OF INTENT FOR 20 AIRBUS A350 AIRCRAFT
*CHINA TO BUY 150 AIRBUS A320 AIRCRAFT, AIRBUS' GALLOIS SAYS

The full article will be available on the Bloomberg site shortly

Regards, PanAm_DC10

[Edited 2006-10-26 05:42:31]


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
133 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTak From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16728 times:

WOW! Big news if it becomes reality! Curious how european workers will react to potential outsourcing of their jobs. Thanks for the breaking news

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13745 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16712 times:

SHOCKING

and interesting



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16687 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

I just spoke to Bloomberg and it appears the 150 A320s are, in their opinion, a new order.

Fair use excerpt;

By Sandrine Rastello
Oct. 26 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's biggest maker of commercial planes, won an order from China for 150 A320 aircraft, Chief Executive Officer Louis Gallois said.


http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...601087&sid=a3egHKCrOCv0&refer=home


Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16612 times:

What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21588 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16516 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?

It's more than 2 years, and China is really big, last time I checked,

But let's see how many of the 150 are really from the last order.

Not to mention, I don't see how this helps anyone but the Airbus shareholders. Transferring A320 production to China means that in a slow down, who you think is going to get furloughed? The European workers. And what happens if they can't be furloughed because of contractual obligations? Gee, paying people to not work, or building more planes than they need.

Any time a company moves production to China, this should not be seen as a good day for anybody but the Chinese.

The LoI for the 350X is pretty funny, though.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCWFan From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16515 times:

Amazing. China is the world's largest source of advanced IP theft.

Check back in 10 years and see if China makes their own narrow-bodies. If you think not, you're nuts. 20 yrs at the very outside.


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16492 times:

Very good news for Airbus !!

User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16479 times:

Quoting CWFan (Reply 7):
Check back in 10 years and see if China makes their own narrow-bodies. If you think not, you're nuts. 20 yrs at the very outside.

Or worse. When I saw this news, I tried to dig up some information on the MD-80s produced under license in China, and evidently a lot of the tooling was "redirected" to Chinese missile production facilities. I mean, I'm not saying they can't have a rocketry program, but I can't imagine the short-term gain of selling a few airliner licenses was in any Western nation's long-term security interests. Just seems short-sighted, that's all.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16476 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?

If you know anything about China you will know its a booming economy and a country with more than a few people... more of this people are flying so there is a need for all these new planes.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4217 posts, RR: 89
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16464 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?

Let's see what Boeing has to say about market demand in China;

By Tian Ying

Oct. 25 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., the world's second-largest commercial-jet maker, reiterated that China may need nearly 2,900 planes over the next two decades as the country's carriers expand their fleets to meet rising travel demand.

The possible orders, worth $280 billion, will make China the largest market outside the U.S. for new commercial airplanes, Boeing said in an e-mailed statement today. The number of aircraft in China may triple to 3,900 by 2025, it added. The company made its last sales forecasts on July 12.

''The Chinese domestic market's projected average growth is almost 9 percent and Boeing believes the current trend of more frequencies and nonstop flights will continue to accommodate this growth through a focus on single-aisle planes such as the Boeing 737,'' Boeing Commercial Airplanes' Marketing Vice President Randy Baseler said.


[END - Fair use excerpt http://www.bloomberg.com ]

Full report of Boeings forecast is available at the following link;

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/cmo/

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
But let's see how many of the 150 are really from the last order.

That is what we need clarification on as we only have one report. It could just be the final breakdown allocation of December 2005s GTA or an entirely new agreement, which Bloomberg have reported.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
The LoI for the 350X is pretty funny, though.

Actually it's really good as the Chinese usually buy on an even basis. So that accounts for 20 heavies to offset the 20 heavies they're buying from Boeing, the first 6 of which were 777Fs for CZ. Some on this forum will really like the breakdown of the other 14  Wink

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16376 times:

For cynical bastards like me ... I just knew (and predicted) they would find a way to count this sale of 150 planes twice. Announce a new factory in China and re-announce the order, why not?

Quoting N754PR (Reply 10):
If you know anything about China you will know its a booming economy and a country with more than a few people... more of this people are flying so there is a need for all these new planes.

I would have made the order for 500. With all those people, they should have no trouble building and filling them.


User currently offlineCWFan From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16375 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 9):
Or worse. When I saw this news, I tried to dig up some information on the MD-80s produced under license in China, and evidently a lot of the tooling was "redirected" to Chinese missile production facilities. I mean, I'm not saying they can't have a rocketry program, but I can't imagine the short-term gain of selling a few airliner licenses was in any Western nation's long-term security interests. Just seems short-sighted, that's all.

I was thinking that, too. As technologically advanced multinationals begin to outsource their core IP processes to China, what worries me are the explicit or implicit IP-"sharing" or outright theft that goes on in every MNC's factory in China. Jack Welch wrote about this in "Straight from the Gut" (about lightbulbs), and so did Fishman in "China, Inc."

At some point domestic economic interests merge into "economic security" conerns. "Economic security" has connotations that sound in foreign policy, and advanced IP offshoring explicitly relates to those economic security interests. Unfortunately, I have yet to see someone who really understands this stuff articulate how advanced IP theft and economic security concerns relates to advanced companies like Boeing or Airbus. Should Western governments do anything about this? Should companies? Or should citizens of Western countries simply not care? Notably, the Japanese government has used a variety of pressures to slow-down the offshoring of their most advances processes to China.

I don't think it's heretical to say that nearly every advanced, market-oriented company will end up giving away the IP store to China, sooner or later. Should the government weigh in at some point? Certainly, if it's not on the sooner side of 20 years, US/EU freedom of action will be constrained in the latter.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16303 times:
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Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Not to mention, I don't see how this helps anyone but the Airbus shareholders.

As an occasional EADS shareholder, that doesn't depress me.

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 12):
For cynical bastards like me ... I just knew (and predicted) they would find a way to count this sale of 150 planes twice.

Ah. Bloomberg has now updated the story:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=aa7K3rKi4kFs&refer=home

And it includes this line:

The order for A320 planes today, valued at almost $10 billion based on catalogue prices, adds to a 150-plane contract that China signed with Airbus last year.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16258 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
As an occasional EADS shareholder, that doesn't depress me.

What's your strategy? Buy when Chirac boards a plane, sell when Foregard approaches a mic?  Wink


User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16258 times:

Very well said, CWFan. I happen to feel that sooner and later are already. And more people than we would ever imagine are looking out for numero uno.

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16249 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15):
What's your strategy? Buy when Chirac boards a plane, sell when Foregard approaches a mic?  

If only one could. But, sadly for that thesis, M. Forgeard is no longer there.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineThebry From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16219 times:
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Right on Airbus!! Time to shake the bad image and get moving again. Where does this order place them in terms of sales for the year? I think I'll stroll over to the excellent 2006 Orders II thread to find out... Airbus always seems to pull it together at year-end.

And, another LOI for 20 A350XWB's?? Seems like that program is picking up momentum too. All around good news for Airbus.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16190 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?

There are a dozen cities in China with 5 million or more people. Compare that with just two in the States: New York and Chicago. The only european cities I can think of with over 5 million residents are London and Moscow. The current situation in China is that there are city pairs with 5M+ people in each that don't have nonstop service yet. Clearly there is ample room for growth.

Quoting CWFan (Reply 13):
I don't think it's heretical to say that nearly every advanced, market-oriented company will end up giving away the IP store to China, sooner or later. Should the government weigh in at some point? Certainly, if it's not on the sooner side of 20 years, US/EU freedom of action will be constrained in the latter.

The US is developing new IP about as fast as the Chinese can acquire it, so it's not as though the store shelves will run dry.


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16190 times:

The LOI's make it a nice ripe 50 jet launch order if they decide to launch the A350 this year . However what do therse carriers intend to buy?XWB or another reincarnation. I beleive that the chinese carriers would like the XWB since they have allready ordered the smaller 787's . Singapore airlines would also like the more 777'ish A350 .

User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16114 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
What the hell is China gonna do with 150 MORE A320s? That's 450 new narrowbody aircraft in 2 years?



Quoting N754PR (Reply 10):
If you know anything about China you will know its a booming economy and a country with more than a few people... more of this people are flying so there is a need for all these new planes.



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
reiterated that China may need nearly 2,900 planes over the next two decades

Booming economy yes. But 2900 planes? Why oh why do they keep ordering narrowbodies? (or so it seems). Biy up 700-1000 widebodies and you will move the same number of people with less operations daily. Lower workload for those working the friendly skies. Such as Japan has with flying 747's domestically.

I too am shocked by an announcement to build aircraft in China. I'll believe it when I see it. That's the attitude I take to Airbus right now. This could be more hot air from Airbus.


User currently offlineA520 From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16094 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):
The only european cities I can think of with over 5 million residents are London and Moscow.

May be you should add Paris and Roma, at least


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16083 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
And it includes this line:

The order for A320 planes today, valued at almost $10 billion based on catalogue prices, adds to a 150-plane contract that China signed with Airbus last year.

It's not a new order for 150 folks (as Mariner correctly pointed out).

While it's an order it also comes at a hefty price in terms of back scartching and my guess would be in the plant deal goes away so do the orders. Which sounds like MORE politics not less for Airbus and company.



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16066 times:

Quoting A520 (Reply 22):
May be you should add Paris and Roma, at least

"Paris had an estimated mid-2004 population of 2,144,700."
"Within the city limits, the population is about 2.5 million; almost 3.8 million live in the urbanised area of Rome."
Both from Wikipedia. Milan is larger, with nearly 4M.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25697 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16052 times:
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Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 23):
It's not a new order for 150 folks (as Mariner correctly pointed out).

I didn't say that. I simply quoted Bloomberg.

To me, it reads as if it is an additional order - "adds to" - but I don't know, since there is only one source.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 23):
Which sounds like MORE politics not less for Airbus and company.

Each to his own. It doesn't sound like that to me - they've been working on the China plant for some time.

But always ready to be proven wrong.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Ikramerica : I just meant that the 20x 350X is funny because they are saying: "we don't know what it is exactly, and don't know when we'll get them, but we need 2
26 Post contains images Boeingfever777 : Take you know something there Paul! Hope to hear about it soon. Darn... So no new (150) A320 order... [Edited 2006-10-26 08:43:41]
27 Mariner : I'm not clear where this is coming from. Apparantly, the order today was for 150 x A320. Bloomberg says this "adds to" a 150-plane contract China sig
28 Post contains links Himself : The story I read said that the Chinese factory would build up to four A320s per year. Not exactly a production rate up there with the lines in Europe.
29 Post contains images EbbUK : How great it is to know that you are supporting the course of the European workers. That warms our cockles no end It is quite a hoot isn't it? Anothe
30 Post contains links GSM763 : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6086412.stm The BBC is also saying it's new
31 WINGS : Congratulations to Airbus and China. Well I must say that this particular order came as a big surprise to me. I was expecting some thing with Chira's
32 Post contains images Astuteman : Because, although we keep talking about fragmentation in terms of the 787/A350, the growth in narrowbodys has probably had more influence on real fra
33 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : Ikramerica I hear what you're saying Ok, this is a new order I have spoken to the reporter and they have asked for clarification twice and have been t
34 777ER : So when can we expect a new 150 B737NG order?
35 Post contains links Leelaw : BEIJING (AP)--China signed an order Thursday for 150 mid-size Airbus A320 planes, the European aircraft maker's chief executive officer said. The ord
36 Scouseflyer : By my bag of fag packet calculation they were on about 250 including the other October orders so this, when booked, will take them over 400 and into
37 Bringiton : Wow so these planes would be assembled in china !!
38 Danny : The order for A320 planes today, valued at almost $10 billion based on catalogue prices, adds to a 150-plane contract that China signed with Airbus l
39 Joni : "China is a large country, inhabited by many Chinese". I heard just recently that currently per year, there are more patent applications filed in Chi
40 Danny : That must be obviously wrong. A factory like this would not make any economic sense. In the order announcement they say planes will be delivered betw
41 WINGS : Airbus Orders in 2006 226 orders booked until 30 September 2006 Orders In October LH 30x A32X + 5x A333 BlueWings 20x A32X Tiger Airways 8x A32x China
42 Beaucaire : The factory in China will have a capacity of four aircraft/month -this is what Gallois indicated to the media yesterday.The figure of 4 x A320/Year is
43 Scouseflyer : If it's what was proposed last year - this is a Final Assembly line only so the fuse, wings etc will be built in Europe still and then flown to China
44 FCKC : This order is a NEW order , and Mr Gallois said it will be immediately added to the Airbus order book.He declined to say for which airlines they are d
45 A520 : These are "intra-muros" data. If you take the full urban area (the criteria of choice for air movements), Paris is almost 10M.
46 Post contains images 797Charter : "How low can you go"
47 Zvezda : It's really four per month. But China has a dozen cities with 5M+ in the city limits. If we're counting metro areas, then the number in China would b
48 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Depends. When is Bush's next scheduled visit to China ?
49 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Airbus now have a press release on their website; http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...ases_items/06_10_26_170_CASGC.html Regards, PanAm_DC10
50 Joni : This is certainly true and China's population is larger than Europe's in any case. Sort of surprising they order so many narrowbodies though, but lik
51 Post contains images Zvezda : As I posted before, China still has many city pairs both of which are 5M+ in population without nonstop service. Obviously, the way to start is with
52 Lumberton : So they have confirmed the assembly plant in China. I wonder what the French unions' reaction will be after the euphoria dies down? Isn't the A320 ass
53 RichardPrice : It is, but I doubt this would actually take any work away from it - its not as if *all* a320 production will move over to China...
54 ZBA320 : Perhaps good news for Airbus? Means the European division can concentrate on getting the A380 and A350XWB programs back on track. As long as the A320
55 Vfw614 : Amazing how our fellow a.netters from across the pond are singing the unions' songs on behalf of the EADS workers. 1. The plant in China will produce
56 Zvezda : We might not see any more B737NG orders from China now that they will be assembling A320s. There will be strong pressure to order only A320s -- at le
57 Post contains images Sebolino : Yes it's true. What will 1.3 billions people do with 450 planes ? That's insane.
58 RAPCON : What are the odds that this "final assembly" line will not go the way of the MD-80/90 line?
59 Rbgso : I agree, it won't be long before some Chinese outfit is spitting out A320 lookalikes. Simply having planes for 20 years doesn't mean they develop the
60 Wingman : Hmmm, I don't see why they don't just announce all 2900 planes right now so that Airbus can crush Boeing in new oders and then sign actual contracts o
61 DeltaDAWG : Somewhat fittiing this comes right as Halloween is upon us, seeing that Airbus just signed its own death warrant! The Chinese will use this to develop
62 Cloudyapple : LOL~ ONLY 150 planes? Toulouse is doing 30 a month. Tianjin is doing 4 a month for internal (Chinese) use, a la MD and Embraer. And Tianjin is an ass
63 Leelaw : We'll see whether exclusivity in narrowbody orders for Airbus results from this enterprise. How many 737s did Boeing sell and deliver to Chinese carr
64 Vfw614 : China is already putting satellites and astronauts (err, taikonauts, to be exact) into space. What on earth makes you believe that they will not be ab
65 Post contains images NYC777 : I wonder when China is going to make the announcement for the 150 Boeing 737s they plan to order this year too!
66 Sabenapilot : You are absolutely correct on both occasions: it is a NEW order for yet another 150 A320s and the production rate of the 3rd assembly line in China w
67 Post contains images DAL767400ER : At the time Boeing announces a 737 plant in Shanghai .
68 Lumberton : I agree and noted earlier that it appears to be a smart move strategically. However, I also asked what the unions' reaction will be? Will they embrac
69 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : Thank you sir Again I thank you; I tried to drop a few hints a couple of weeks ago but no-one noticed or could be bothered to notice. It's a good day
70 Vfw614 : Let me quickly rephrase the question is asked earlier: What is be the maximum monthly narrowbody output at the existing Airbus plants - to what extent
71 Stitch : So are these "pre-fabbed" birds with some minor final assembly (ala the 787) or will they just ship a complete set of parts and Tianjin will mirror t
72 Dougloid : Time for a new thread....
73 Zvezda : I'm not so sure China will need to maintain order parity. If they do, what signal will that send regarding the benefit of having set up a final assem
74 Post contains images Stitch : Boeing planes are one of the few things that even tries to balance out the trade deficit the United States runs with China on an annual basis. If Chi
75 Scouseflyer : Hmmmmm what could you mean by the wink at the end of that question - that an Industrial launch is coming very soon..........
76 Post contains links Gh123 : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6086412.stm
77 Danny : China does not need to maintain any parity. They will do what they want.
78 Clickhappy : China does not need to maintain any parity. They will do what they want. I disagree. Big ticket items are what the PRC buy to (try) maintain some leve
79 Danny : US will not stop import from China because US needs their products. You are not going to shut down Walmart and remove 90% of clothes, toys and many o
80 UAlmmflyer : I would withhold any judgment on China's future plan of purchase. There are so many uncertainties: 1. Whether the assembly plan will be successful? Lo
81 Clickhappy : Nope. We will just buy more products from Korea. Or Bangladesh. Or Vietnam. Know your history. The Chinese are in the same place Japan was 40 years ag
82 Bringiton : Correct. Tarrifs are imposed or threatened to be imposed when the balance swings to undesired levels . US imposed tarrifs on Furniture comming in fro
83 Danny : Can you advise us what is he current US trade balance with China?
84 Post contains links Clickhappy : Negative $20 Billion US http://www.census.gov/indicator/www/ustrade.html No one said there wasn't a balance. If you take away those big ticket items C
85 Post contains images Baroque : So it is even worse news than we thought. And the need for another 150 or so is obvious. Just an hour after you have flown in a Chinese made A320, yo
86 Bringiton : The point isnt the disparity which is quite big however at what levels they want to take it to (or are comfortable with)!! Suppose I am trading with
87 Post contains images Jacobin777 : While that maybe "technically" correct, LAX area has a population of > 12 million with LAX being the only "majour" international airport in the vicin
88 Baroque : $22 bill for August is worth pointing out. And the next biggest negative balance for the US is with EU - $11 bill in Aug. Chinese deficit rising, whi
89 Cloudy : That would be a good point if China was the same size as Japan. It is much, much bigger. Much of China is as poor as Vietnam, or even Bangladesh. Whe
90 Post contains links Poitin : As for China suddenly cutting off 737NG sales, Zvezda, I would think you should read: http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/boechina.html I do
91 AirFrnt : Very true. As I pointed out above (and some moderator kindly deleted) this deal is basically a quid pro quo for the factory. China's orders are alway
92 777ATech : This sure is going to delight the German side of Airbus. Not too long ago there was a suggestion that all the A320 line should move to Hamburg and mov
93 Shenzhen : If history is any kind of indicator, then assembling airplanes in China doesn't affect future airplane sales after the intial order. How many MDs did
94 Ikramerica : "Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding." I've seen too many companies in the USA transfer their manufacturing to China, first by o
95 Zvezda : I support good airliners at good prices. If this deal helps to achieve that, then great. People in China need jobs just as much (if not more) than pe
96 Scouseflyer : I thought that the planes were bought by this government Agency (all 150) and it was up to them to place them with the airlines - not the AB sales te
97 Shenzhen : I don't want to get into all the different agencies that need to approve any contract, let alone the transfer of hard currency out of the country, bu
98 RichardPrice : But they havent - the line is already working at capacity with a massive backlog, all that would have happened to these '50 planes a year' would be t
99 PlaneHunter : If a large scale technology transfer is the price for that order, then it's not worth it. The deal may increase profits now and for the next years, bu
100 HB88 : Airbus are not transferring A320 production to China. The production of the Tianjing FAL will be a handful of aircraft a month while the Finkenwerder
101 Post contains images Aeroplan73 : It will be avaliable in North American Walmart stores for $59.95 by Christmas of that year.
102 Shenzhen : I think one could assume that the Chinese production will only cover the 150 frames under contract, for internal use. If they (China) want to assembl
103 HB88 : I think you're probably right as far as the FAL arrangement goes re contracts etc. But, as far as I know, the specific details aren't yet crystalised
104 Post contains links and images Poitin : Well, perhaps a few dollars more. However, they have done it already, and with the MD-80. I am surprised nobody on this thread hadn't noted the ARJ21
105 A342 : For God's sake, from the other article on the Airbus website:
106 Scbriml : In your dreams. No, you said it was a bribe. And what benefit do they gain from reverse engineering a 20+ year-old design? The Chinese already operat
107 Poitin : And the MD-80? Look up a few replies, my good man and tell me it isn't so.
108 Zvezda : There is no reason to call this a bribe, which is paying someone to personally take money (or favors) to do his official job. This is a quid pro quo a
109 Post contains images HB88 : This is the most sensible (and accurate) thing that's been posted in this thread. IMO there is more technological mileage to be gained by developing
110 Scbriml : An RJ that looks like an MD-80? A plane that was supposed to fly in mid 2005 and still hasn't? A plane that won't be available to a purchaser till Se
111 Shenzhen : If they (the Chinese) gain access to the detailed drawings, they need not reverse engineer anything. Before you tell me that they won't have access,
112 Poitin : So I guess you are saying that they are cloning the MD-80? It more than looks like the MD-80. It is the MD-80 with a different wing. The issue is not
113 Post contains images Zvezda : Thank you for the kind words! Obviously, they will have access to the drawings necessary to assemble the sections. This may be the most insightful th
114 Scbriml : Doesn't matter one jot if they RE it or not. If the thing is a pile of crap and doesn't sell, then it's a waste of time and effort. Let's debate it f
115 AirFrnt : bribe /bra?b/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[brahyb] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, bribed, brib?ing. . anyth
116 MCIGuy : The A350 order is quite transparently politically motivated. It can't be because the A350 is a better airplane because the 350 is nothing more than va
117 Ruscoe : Just tell me again why Airbus think this is a good idea for themselves? Ruscoe
118 EbbUK : I like Boeing. I like Airbus a lot more. wherever the business model takes Airbus, I am happy. As long as they continue making great planes.
119 Mariner : Oh - possibly for much the same reasons that Australia decided that the "white Australia" policy wasn't such a good idea. mariner
120 Post contains links Dougloid : Payday for Chirac. He's been bought and paid for by his Chinese masters. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/174552.cms
121 Monteycarlos : Lol... An excellent reply! I think too many people in here are interested in the conspiracy theories and Airbus' hidden agenda rather than what is bl
122 Revelation : Well, the backlog only builds if the number of planes added exceeds the production capacity being brought online, no? Power8 says they want to do mor
123 Post contains links Leelaw : Nevertheless, the WSJ reports this may not initially be a profitable enterprise: ...The assembly plant won't be initially profitable as an industrial
124 Dank : And to, hopefully, do so at a bigger profit. That assumes that doing business in China hasn't changed dramatically in 20 odd years. That's not to say
125 Joni : Building a factory in China can be very useful for Airbus in the future, since it will establish Airbus as a "Chinese" company in China - and the Chin
126 Zvezda : I guess you mean their successors. Neither has much chance of being in production 10-20 years from now.
127 Baroque : Check out how RLI is considered. You have to submit a plan for producing a plane or parts of a plane in the country making the investment. It could b
128 Post contains links and images Scbriml : The word "bribe" is generally accepted as indicative of corrupt or illegal behaviour. I can quote from an online dictionary as well! bribe noun or ve
129 Zvezda : In this context, Scbriml definitely has the right meaning of bribe. This is very different from giving candy to a child, in which the term bribe might
130 Revelation : That depends on exactly how the startup costs are being paid for. A and B both take advantage of local government incentives that apply to startup co
131 AirFrnt : Actually, the kid with the candy is exactly how I view this situation, and I would suggest to you Airbus does as well. This is something that Airbus
132 Post contains images N844AA : I am not suggesting that Airbus will be bribing China in the future, or vice versa. But does France, Germany, or the EU have a version of our Foreign
133 Post contains links Mortyman : http://www.boarding.no/art.asp?id=23800 Largest single transaction ever; CASGC buys 170 aircrafts from Airbus China Aviation Supplies Import and Expor
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