A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13385 times:
On the US Airways conference call, they've confirmed the three new European routes as PHL-ATH/BRU/ZRH.
BRU will use a B757-200 and ZRH will use a B767-200ER, and both will be year-round.
ATH will use an A330-300X, which will be weight-restricted thanks to the PW4173 engines never having been delivered as ordered. They apparently chose to go with ATH over the other option being discussed, which was SVO, which would have had fewer restrictions. ATH will be seasonal.
This will probably mean that MAD will be downgraded to a B767-200ER during the summer, and probably that either BCN or AMS will be downgraded to a B757-200.
They're still threatening to not start the service if DL is moved to Terminal A-East in PHL, but that's just a lot of hot air.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 2, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13354 times:
Quoting A330323X (Thread starter): They're still threatening to not start the service if DL is moved to Terminal A-East in PHL, but that's just a lot of hot air.
If that isn't motivation enough for Delta to be in favor of a terminal move (remaining the sole US carrier to ATH), I don't know what will.
Quoting A330323X (Thread starter): This will probably mean that MAD will be downgraded to a B767-200ER during the summer, and probably that either BCN or AMS will be downgraded to a B757-200.
Won't there have to be 2 routes downgraded to 757s? After all, US will need 2 762s to open up ZRH and replace the A330 to MAD.
FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13345 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2): Won't there have to be 2 routes downgraded to 757s? After all, US will need 2 762s to open up ZRH and replace the A330 to MAD.
The other one is coming from the already-announced downgrading of DUB to a 757. However, that downgrade comes with the silver lining that year-round service will probably be opened to Ireland next winter with a PHL-DUB-SNN triangle route.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13346 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2): Won't there have to be 2 routes downgraded to 757s? After all, US will need 2 762s to open up ZRH and replace the A330 to MAD.
I know DUB and SNN will change to B757's from the B762 for next yr, so that will free up 2 aircraft on the summer schedule
DLCnxgptjax From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 352 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 13142 times:
I'm curious to know why DL moving to Terminal A will keep them from starting the route?
DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 10, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13090 times:
Quoting DLCnxgptjax (Reply 9): I'm curious to know why DL moving to Terminal A will keep them from starting the route?
Supposed lack of gate space during the evening Euro push, seeing as DL needs 3 gates to handle their flights. Not sure how many flights are actually scheduled at the same time US wants to operate these new Euro flights, but except ATL flights, I can't imagine there being too many.
DLCnxgptjax From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 352 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13081 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Supposed lack of gate space during the evening Euro push, seeing as DL needs 3 gates to handle their flights. Not sure how many flights are actually scheduled at the same time US wants to operate these new Euro flights, but except ATL flights, I can't imagine there being too many.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15733 posts, RR: 48 Reply 13, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 12967 times:
What's the story with the Greek/US bilateral? Is it limited or open skies?
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 14, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12754 times:
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2):
If that isn't motivation enough for Delta to be in favor of a terminal move (remaining the sole US carrier to ATH), I don't know what will.
I don't think DL much cares one way or the other if/when it moves. It's WN that's desperate to get DL out of Terminal E so that WN can have DL's gates there.
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 2): Won't there have to be 2 routes downgraded to 757s? After all, US will need 2 762s to open up ZRH and replace the A330 to MAD.
As said, DUB is confirmed as going down to a B752.
I will note though that while it's highly likely the routes I mentioned will be downgraded, it's still possible that US might attempt to keep (one of) them as is, scheduling all the birds in that fleet with no spare, instead keeping one of the smaller birds as the spare in case a larger one has a maintenance issue. I don't think that would be wise, though.
Quoting DLCnxgptjax (Reply 9): I'm curious to know why DL moving to Terminal A will keep them from starting the route?
The gates in A-East that DL will be moving into are International gates that US currently uses, and would certainly need to use for additional flights.
Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10): Supposed lack of gate space during the evening Euro push, seeing as DL needs 3 gates to handle their flights. Not sure how many flights are actually scheduled at the same time US wants to operate these new Euro flights, but except ATL flights, I can't imagine there being too many.
Not "supposed", the lack of international gates is very real. And it's more the afternoon, with the international arrivals, that is the problem. US could always tow some planes to the domestic gates in B/C for departures, which they've done in the past, but I think the logjam is for the arrivals. Still far less than ideal, but perhaps better than mobile lounges, which is what I think they'll do if worse comes to worse; they won't cancel the service just to prove a point.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13): What's the story with the Greek/US bilateral? Is it limited or open skies?
2 U.S. airlines allowed on NYC-ATH, 1 U.S. airline allowed on CHI-ATH, no restrictions on U.S. airlines serving ATH from other U.S. points.
Not sure about U.S. airlines serving other Greek points, but that hardly matters.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
CY319 From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 391 posts, RR: 13 Reply 16, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 12645 times:
Good news for ATH !!!!
There is always space for ATH-US flights due to the big VFR traffic (Greek community in the US) and the American tourists.
but isnt the 330 too big for PHL-ATH? a 767 would make more sense.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6364 posts, RR: 34 Reply 18, posted (6 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 12519 times:
Quoting A330323X (Reply 14): Not "supposed", the lack of international gates is very real.
It seems a bit strange that US Airways cannot manage to shoehorn 20 or 21 daily transatlantic arrivals (17 or 18 this summer plus three next summer) into roughly 15 international gates while Continental manages 34 (with plans for even more) into 19 gates at EWR.
Quoting A330323X (Thread starter): They're still threatening to not start the service if DL is moved to Terminal A-East in PHL, but that's just a lot of hot air.
Agreed, but it is in their best interest to try to keep Southwest from picking up additional gates at PHL. WN has made it clear that they will use additional gates to expand service.
Perhaps a more complicated shuffle -- moving United into Terminal C with its Star Alliance Partner, and Delta & Northwest into United's old Terminal D gates (along with some gates in D currently used by WN) would accomplish the airport's goal of increasing gate utilization while keeping the A-East gates free for US's summer seasonal European services.
A330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 47 Reply 20, posted (6 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 12342 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 18): It seems a bit strange that US Airways cannot manage to shoehorn 20 or 21 daily transatlantic arrivals (17 or 18 this summer plus three next summer) into roughly 15 international gates while Continental manages 34 (with plans for even more) into 19 gates at EWR.
15 gates? US has 11 gates in A-West, to cover 21 transatlantic arrivals plus around 3-4 Caribbean arrivals that show up during that time period. Even with two banks, that's not enough.
CO also has access to the common-use international gates at EWR Terminal B when it needs them--which is just what US wants at the common-use international gates at PHL Terminal A-East.
Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 19): The 762 could operate the route with no issues and in actual fact has a greater range than the A330's!
Not US's. It's been discussed in great detail how US's 762ERs are low-MTOW birds.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
Flying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2360 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (6 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 12298 times:
Quoting A330323X (Thread starter): ATH will use an A330-300X, which will be weight-restricted thanks to the PW4173 engines never having been delivered as ordered
What was the problem with the PW power plants ?
Quoting A330323X (Thread starter): BRU will use a B757-200 and ZRH will use a B767-200ER, and both will be year-round
What makes US think that the BRU route may be a success some years after they pulled out of it ??
About Moscow, wouldn't the yields have been more interesting there than in ATH ?
PW never delivered the uprated and more powerful engines for the A330s, thus US deals with limitations that they hoped to avoid with the aircraft. I do think that the A333 will be over-kill on the PHL-ATH route......and it will be intersting to see what limitations are needed and will the limitations affect the profitabilty of the route. I do think that PHL-ATH, if the route is a success, will be one of the first routes flown by the A332s that US has on order.
What makes US think that the BRU route may be a success some years after they pulled out of it ??
US quickly dropped the PHL-BRU route back in September 2001 - as part of the cutbacks. The PHL-BRU route was not mature and was part of the wholesale cuts being made by the airlines in order to survive the downturn in traffic. A few things have changed - first, this time around US is going to use a 757 instead of the 762ER which will mean lower operating costs, yeilds on European routes (especially into BRU) are rather good, and BRU is a underserved airport, the last time US tried serving BRU, Sabena was still flying.
Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 21): About Moscow, wouldn't the yields have been more interesting there than in ATH ?
The logic/rumors going around is - US wanted to beat CO into ATH and it seems that CO may be announcing Moscow (DME or SVO - who knows?) especially if CO does not get the China route, thus US went for ATH. In an few months, we will see if US made the right choice.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 23, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 11669 times:
US needs some A332 fast, they are short airplanes. 757's for Ireland and Brussels is fine but those 762 have to go, one of them operated Piedmont's initial CLT to LGW flight back in 1987.
Malexander131 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 64 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 11467 times:
Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 15): US is the exclusive carrier PHL-MAD, unlike CDG or especially LGW (which has 2 BA flights).
BA operates to LHR from PHL.
Personally, I think that the year round 757 will help to spell great success for US Airways international operations. This brings the list of Europeand destinations to what now, 17?
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
25 Dutchjet: Sorry to break the bad news to you, but US's 762ERs are likely to remain in revenue service even after the A332s are delivered.....although they will
26 LIPZ: 19 Shannon seasonal Dublin seasonal Manchester Glasgow seasonal London Lisbon seasonal Madrid Barcelona seasonal Milan Venice seasonal Rome Frankfurt
27 FCYTravis: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 762s except for the dated interiors. They are perfectly serviceable airplanes and they will be getting a c
28 Phllax: The problem is that the Airport made the deal with SW when US was in its 2nd Ch 11 filing and things were bleak. Now the shoe is on the other foot! T
29 PSA727: I think US will still downgrade PHL-AMS to a 757, and keep the MAD route a year-round 767. Now that LIS will be daily, US can add TAP code-share fligh
30 USPIT10L: BRU was cut on January 31, 2002. The demise of Sabena hastened the pullout. US was providing frequent-flyer feed at BRU for Sabena. US was also a big
31 GECMD11: I would think SVO would have a better yield for US then ATH? On a side note when does the new terminal at SVO open?? Last time i was in SVO it was a n
32 A330323X: US already codeshares with TP to most of the domestic Portuguese points. US can't add any codeshare points in Spain beyond the ones it already serves
33 Usair320: Great news! I would assume the A333 will be freed up from MAD. nice to see a new A330 route.
34 PHLstudent: Is there any word on when these new routes would be starting? I assume there is no specific date but time frame?
35 Vega: Possibly because the only U.S. carrier competition from the East Coast (currently) is a DL 767-300ER with refurbished interior out of JFK. I think it
36 Mah584jr: Is US definitely getting the 332's, because i've heard numerous speculation that this was not the case anymore. Can anybody give me a clear distinct a
37 Supa7E7: Despite what some people say, there seems to be no clear answer on this. Doug Parker has never mentioned A332s and what he plans to do with them. We
38 HOUTxFA: What do people think about WN expanding at PHL? Good idea? Bad idea? Possible? not likely?
39 ScottB: But it's seasonal international service which will operate for five or six months per year at most -- during the low season, the supposed shortage of
40 Vega: Without 332s or an equivalent (787, etc.), US would be in a "no growth" situation until at least 2014 (or after) - the new delivery date for the A350
41 FCYTravis: Patently false. Did you even bother to read the thread? ZRH and BRU will be year-round service, and DUB/SNN will go year-round starting next winter.
42 Charlipr: I am intrigued! From looking at the Airbus orders/deliveries spreadsheet, it shows that US East has 15 A318 on order. Since when? The last thing I kno
43 Supa7E7: Yes Vega, a US(NW) merger is still a possibility. Agree there. Travis, the way US is behaving lately, they need an A350 or 787 fleet to hit Asia. To c
44 FlyDreamliner: Poor US, all of their widebodies have strange issues, their A330s have underrated engines and their 762ERs are not rated to full MTOW. The 762ER woul
45 DAL767400ER: Originally DME, but now plans are for SVO, to allow better intra-Skyteam connections to SU once Terminal 3 is up and running. Well, they could do the
46 Snnus: Where does it state that SNN/DUB is going year round from next year???
47 Jlb: But the MTOW for the A333 is max 233 tons, no matter what engine you put on it (eg its the same with the more powerful RR trent), so unless they are
48 N1120A: They only need 1 762ER to run ZRH You failed to mention that the BA flights are to LHR Probably Madrid I doubt that. US is strong at FRA They came wi
49 A330323X: Is that twice as good as their 10-K report? Seriously, if you want it straight from the horse's mouth, why not just look at the Airbus Term Sheet, wh
50 Jlb: Yes I understand it's Athens in the summer! Now I know from the data you provided that a PW powered a330 is not able to make it of a 13,000ft runway
51 Flyboyaz: Any idea when we will announce the service? Haven't heard a peep about it at work.
52 Jdwfloyd: Look for it in "About US" today, or next week.
53 A330323X: Well, US Airways has officially applied for the PHL-ATH authority with the DOT: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf98/421064_web.pdf Daily nonstop seas
54 Jdwfloyd: Look for the second daily PHL-FRA to go away, freeing up a 762. Wonder if LH would up service to PHL to pick up the slack.
55 Airmale: Nice to see US in Zurich. But isn't the US-Switzerland market a bit overcrowded? AA, DL, CO, UA, LX....... (not to mention all other major european ca
56 A330323X: While I wouldn't put it past the braintrust in Tempe, that would be a horrible idea. The *second* PHL-FRA flight is among the most profitable in the
57 Jdwfloyd: So what is next summers A/C breakdown look like? This is what I have figured. A333 PHL to FRA LGW FCO MAD CDG MAN CLT to LGW FRA B762 PHL to MUC BCN A
58 FCYTravis: Almost, and you're missing ATH Assuming Doug was not misspeaking about the A333... A333 CLT: LGW FRA A333 PHL: LGW FRA CDG ATH MAN FCO B762: FRA (s
59 ScottB: Going from the list provided by LIPZ, roughly 1/3 of the transatlantic departures from PHL will be seasonal. Well, it goes against what they said in
60 A330323X: US has completed its carrier poll, and received no objections. Approval of the application will likely come next week.
61 Flyboyaz: I confirmed the routes with my boss today, though he wasn't happy about it being posted on an internet forum...hope I don't get in trouble...Yikes...
62 FCYTravis: Heh. I'd give your boss a link to the multiple news stories where this has been discussed, because Doug Parker talked about it very publicly on the in
63 BNinMSY: US has significant contracts with cruise lines that disembark/embark passengers at ATH, similiar to VCE so this service is more than likely to support
64 PSA727: Since the weight restrictions would be flying out of ATH and not flying into there, this is a good way to offset a higher inbound PAX count vs. a low
65 Flyboyaz: Oh good...that makes me feel better. I just read an article about it as well...so they can't blame me!
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 82 posts, 
From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, 
.
From Sweden, joined Oct 2006, 499 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5540 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Greece, joined Apr 2006, 391 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2883 posts, 
From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2360 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
