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What Is A B747BCF  
User currently offlineFL370 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 252 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 5692 times:

ive heard lots of people talk about the 747BCF. but when i look at one it looks no different than a regular 747-400! so whats the difference! and whhy is it called a B747BCF??

and sorry if this has been brought up before



fl370

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 11 months 4 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

It is the name for the Boeing led conversion program (versus third party conversions). Boeing still doesn't do the work, it's contracted out, but you "order" a BCF from Boeing, they find the old 747 (or you provide it), and then after a while and some "purpose reassignment surgery" you get a 747BCF to fly cargo around in.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

BCF = Boeing Converted Freighter


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Most not if all are converted @ Xiamen, except the ones converted by another company, which as called BSF's


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Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineNoWorries From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

The hump on the BCF is so much longer that on a normal 747F, do carriers (such as FedEx, UPS?) make use of this extra space?

Would a 748i built as the freighter (with a much longer hump) be of any interest to a package carrier vis-a-vis the A380F?


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Quoting NoWorries (Reply 3):
The hump on the BCF is so much longer that on a normal 747F, do carriers (such as FedEx, UPS?) make use of this extra space?

A 744BCF is a ex Pax 744 which has had a Side cargo door fitted and a stronger floor fitted and all the windows on the lower deck plugged.

The rear section of the hump is empty, just after the upper deck door is the end of the upper deck which has been shorten, so there is northing at the end, no floor at all.

And FedEx and UPS dont own any. The only people who have them are:
-CX Cargo
-Korean Air Cargo
-Air China Cargo (BSF not BCF)
-JAL Cargo
-Dragonair Cargo

And I think Martinair Cargo has a few 744BCF's on order.

Quoting NoWorries (Reply 3):
Would a 748i built as the freighter (with a much longer hump)

No, because there is no need, and I think it is more Aerodynamic and save weight to use the shorten Upper Deck AFAIK.

Tom.

[Edited 2006-10-26 20:47:09]

[Edited 2006-10-26 20:48:12]


Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 4):
No, because there is no need, and I think it is more Aerodynamic and save weight to use the shorten Upper Deck AFAIK.

Partly... but the main purpose is that because a 747 is a heavy hauler (not really a PF by default) they shorter the upper deck because of weight for sure, BUT the upperdeck shortens the ceiling height in the main floor by a few feet. If you remove the 23' of "extended upper deck" you get that much more height available for large cargo on the main floor.



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (7 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 5408 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 2):
Most not if all are converted @ Xiamen, except the ones converted by another company, which as called BSF's

Almost. 747-400BCF is the designation given to freighters converted through Boeing. Boeing manages the conversion from beginning to end. However, they have now blurred the line a little by selling "kits" to Singapore Airlines and Korean Air which allow those airlines to do the hands-on part of the conversions themselves (and still to call the thing a BCF, I believe), and to resell any so-converted aircraft to others if they wish.

The 747-400BDSF shown in the photo you posted is a whole different animal. BD stands for Bedek, which is a part of IAI, Israel Aircraft Industries. IAI/Bedek does a lot of conversions of aircraft from pax to freighter, both as a subcontractor to the manufacturer and also using its own STCs. Right now, it is interested in doing 747-400 conversions using its own engineering and STC, and will produce the 747-400BDSF, the prototype of which you posted. IAI/Bedek will presumably also retain (as Boeing did) shops other than its own to do the hands-on work if in fact it gets enough orders to need to outsource some of the work.

Hope this clears that up.


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 6):
prototype

That prototype is now flying with Air China Cargo, in there full livery.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (7 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 5398 times:

Quoting NoWorries (Reply 3):
The hump on the BCF is so much longer that on a normal 747F, do carriers (such as FedEx, UPS?) make use of this extra space?

As noted above, the floor of a substantial portion of the "hump" is removed in the conversion. This is because the floor of the hump impinges on the ceiling of the lower deck, although this isn't obvious in the passenger version because of the false (lowered) ceiling in the passenger cabin. When you strip out the passenger fittings, you see that the ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the floor of the upper deck. It is most advantageous, therefore, to dismantle the floor in the unnecessary part of the upper deck so as to permit the aircraft to carry a larger number of taller containers, and this is done. This is also why the "hump" on the 748 freighter is shorter than the hump on the 748 passenger version: the smaller hump allows more tall containers in the aircraft.


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 5386 times:

I have just found a press release of Boeing's site saying that the 744BCF @ Xiamen in DragonAir Cargo colours, will be delivered to SQ and then will be sent to Dragonair, and they mentioned the conversion kits for SQ.

SEATTLE, Oct. 26, 2006 -- SEATTLE, Oct. 26, 2006 - Boeing [BA: NYSE] today announced that it recently delivered a completed 747-400 Boeing Converted Freighter to Singapore Airlines.

For this modification, Boeing managed every aspect of the conversion process from contract signing, design and production through redelivery. Boeing hired Taikoo (Xiamen) Aircraft Engineering Co., Ltd. (TAECO) in Xiamen, China, to perform the hands-on modification work on this airplane.

Singapore Airlines has sold the aircraft to Dragonair through a separate and previously announced arrangement.

This is the sixth 747-400 Boeing Converted Freighter that has been redelivered through Boeing to cargo operators.

In addition to supplying Singapore Airlines with one fully converted freighter, Boeing has a special agreement with the airline to provide six freighter conversion kits. SIA Engineering Company will use the kits to modify and certify passenger airplanes as freighters.




Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5163 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 7):
That prototype is now flying with Air China Cargo, in there full livery.

Right. It was the combi-to-cargo conversion, for which they have received their STC. I don't think they have their STC yet for the pax-to-cargo 747-400BDSF conversion, unless they got it within the last month.


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 4):
UPS dont own any.

Not yet, but they will soon as they have some on order but I forget how many.


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 11):
Not yet, but they will soon as they have some on order but I forget how many.

Do they?

Any source to back that up?

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 10):
Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 7):
That prototype is now flying with Air China Cargo, in there full livery.

Right. It was the combi-to-cargo conversion, for which they have received their STC. I don't think they have their STC yet for the pax-to-cargo 747-400BDSF conversion, unless they got it within the last month.

I think I saw the CA one at AMS earlier in September, a shame it got rejected for the database on this website. On the fuselage the text Boeing 747-400SF was readable. (just 'SF').



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4970 times:
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The "BCF" is the new name stemming from the old "SF" meaning Special Freighter. The BCF is engineered by Boeing but the touch-labor is done by sub-contractors as mentioned. The older 747-200SF and 747-300SF were actually engineered and converted by Boeing in Wichita when there was commercial mod center there. When Boeing Aircraft Services (BAS), at the time, closed down BAS Wichita, all of the engineering was transferred to Seattle.

A little later, the BCF name was adopted to replace the SF designation. I believe the BCF is done by Service Bulletins.

Also, Boeing Wichita still owns the STC's for the 747-200SF and the 747-300SF, which actually doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 12):
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 11):
Not yet, but they will soon as they have some on order but I forget how many.

Do they?

Any source to back that up?

Tom.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...2552429&s=ups+747-400bcf#ID2552429

Regards


User currently offlineGh123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Obviously the main deck is for maximum cargo space. Does anyone have a picture of their stairs up to the upper deck on these cargo jets?

thanks in advance


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 16):

I haven't seen any photos of the interior of a BCF, but the photo below is of a 744ERF stairs.


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Photo © Linze Folkeringa



Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 16):
Obviously the main deck is for maximum cargo space. Does anyone have a picture of their stairs up to the upper deck on these cargo jets?

My understanding is a few seats and then just some empty space and a lav. Anyone been up top of 744F to verify?



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
you see that the ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the floor of the upper deck.

Not true.

The top of the main deck curved ceiling panels is WL 296

The bottom of the upper deck floor beams is WL 300.25

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):
My understanding is a few seats and then just some empty space and a lav. Anyone been up top of 744F to verify?

No, but some of my co-worker were involved with the design effort.
Lav, Galley, seats and bins similar to a regular 744 except it ends at the u/d doors.

Tod


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 18):

I'm no crew, but AFAIK on the upper deck of a 744F are:
- Crew Seats
- Crew Bunks
- Galley
- Lav

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Quoting Tod (Reply 19):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
you see that the ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the floor of the upper deck.

Not true.

Um... yeah it is. But maybe Wjcandee phrased it correctly.
The ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the ceiling in the area underneath the hump.
View the image in Reply 17 or do a search for the inside of 744F's on a.net images. You will see tons of pics showing the difference in height.



KPAE via KBVY
User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 21):
Quoting Tod (Reply 19):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
you see that the ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the floor of the upper deck.

Not true.

Um... yeah it is. But maybe Wjcandee phrased it correctly.
The ceiling in the main part of the aircraft is higher than the ceiling in the area underneath the hump.
View the image in Reply 17 or do a search for the inside of 744F's on a.net images. You will see tons of pics showing the difference in height.

Oh I get it. Just a confusion of nomenclature.
The freighters definately do have available more available vertical space aft of the upperdeck floor beams.
The freighters do not have a "ceiling" in that area.

Tod


User currently offlineAirbusA346 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 7437 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4693 times:

Quoting Tod (Reply 22):
The freighters do not have a "ceiling" in that area.

The new 744F's do have a ceiling in that area, it is just higher up and is right up against the piping and wires in the ceiling.

Tom.



Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
User currently offlineBeech19 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 936 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 23):
The new 744F's do have a ceiling in that area, it is just higher up and is right up against the piping and wires in the ceiling.

I'll translate again...

Note he said "ceiling" in quotes. The 744F does not have a low ceiling all the way down the aircraft. ONLY in the front under the hump. Hence "no ceiling." Of course it has a ceiling, just much higher in the fues curve.



KPAE via KBVY
25 Tod : So does the new 744F have a lining below the air ducting and control cables? If so, I wonder why? Tod
26 AirbusA346 : Yes, see the photo in Reply 17. Tom.
27 Junior1970 : When are they scheduled to be delivered ? Thx
28 Post contains images Tod : Doh I still wonder why? Maybe slightly less area to heat? Tod
29 NoWorries : Drifting off topic a bit -- if/when there are pax A380 conversions to freighter, will they strengthen both decks, or remove the upper and just strengt
30 Airbuseric : First one expected Nov. 2006. Will become PH-MPP
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