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Will Boeing Let The 777 Die?  
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 656 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16723 times:

If the A350 does become the success that Airbus hopes it will be, and does overthrow the 777, do you think Boeing will sit back and allow this to happen?
I can't see Boeing launching Y3 so soon, so is it possible for them to update the 777? Kind of like they did with the 737NGs to match the A320.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 961 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16685 times:

At this point, the continued delays with the A380 and A350 are breathing life into the 777 as airlines search for interim capacity. EK for example is taking additional 773ER as a stop-gap for lost to A388 delays. In the short/mid-term, Boeing is okay.

Also consider that the A350-900 is only a 772ER competitor, and sales of the 772ER began declining almost six years ago. The peak of the 772ER market has long sense past, so the A359 isn't really "killing" a hot-selling product.

Since 2000, the 777LR have been the primary sales focus of the 777 program, and the A350-1000 will (to some extent) compete with the 773ER. But the A350-1000 will come even later than the A359, perhaps in 2014-2015. At that point, the 773ER will have seen more than a decade of revenue service and will be suitable for either an overhaul or replacement program.

In other words: Yes Airbus is targeting Boeing's highly successful products, yes the A350 will be more economical than the 777, and yes... it only took them 10-15 years to do it.

As for Boeing's options as to countering the larger A350 variants, there are numerous routes they could take. Boeing is already marketing the 787-10 as an A359 competitor and 772ER replacement. As for the 773ER, Boeing could either overhaul the 777 with new technology, or launch Y3 in 2015-2020.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11208 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16665 times:

With the A350 still merely a paper airplane with limited interest and a LOOONG wait, I think reports of the 777's death have been greatly exaggerated.


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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30566 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16673 times:
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I'm with DfwRevolution. Boeing will use the window they have to sell as many 777s as they can. They can offer deals that still return a nice RoI per frame as well as bundle 777s together with 787s and even 747s to try and secure as large a back-log as they can.

Airbus will have the upper hand with the second wave of 747, 777 and A340 replacements, but if Boeing can book a backlog into the mid-2010s, they have a nice cushion to sit on as they determine what they want to do when it comes time for the third wave of 747, 777 and A340 replacements.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16664 times:

Boeing is continually working on getting weight out of the 772LR and 773ERs knowing the success of the program depends on making it successful for 20 years or more - the typical economic life of modern airplanes.

There are alot of 747s in service that will probably be replaced before the 1000 enters service; 747 replacements will come from both the 773 and the A380 with the 773 probably getting a disproportionately larger share of the market. The 773 is a very economical aircraft by today's standards - and the A350 in all versions is still nothing more than a pipe dream as are all of Airbus' new generation widebodies .


User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16578 times:

Yeah it seemed strange that people were already predicting the death of an aircraft that's a little over a decade old. I just don't see Boeing going for Y3 as early as 2015.
I hope the continue to make improvements, as the 777 can only get better. Sure the A350 will have better technology, however, the 777 will have a decade and a half to get all the kinks out of the system. By then it will be regarded as a trusted and solid design like the 737 and A320.

Here is another scenario...if the 748I fails to leave the drawing board, do you think there will be a further stretch of the 777 fuselage? Is this not what Airbus did with the 340-600 in order to get into the 747s market? Sure the 777 could never reach the A380, but I'm sure it could come close to the 748.

This was brought up last year in another thread:

"While we anxiously wait for Boeing to decide the fate of the 747ADV, it is highly likely that some way or the other they will want to have a plane in the 450 pass niche. Could a stretch 777-400 be a better candidate for that segment or would the ADV have a better potential for Boeing and airlines. It is still questionable if enough airlines would want a 747ADV , if the line can stay alive long enough receive this new variant ,or if the popularity of the 777 could spawn a longer version more suitable to market conditions. What do you guys think?"


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 16493 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
With the A350 still merely a paper airplane with limited interest and a LOOONG wait, I think reports of the 777's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 checkmark  Couldn't be better said! I think the 777 will be a highly viable air frame and an ace seller for Boeing for some years to come, well into the next decade. I've even observed speculation about an eventual 777-400ER/LR in many of these threads. The 787 will take "some" would be 777 sales at this point but the 772LR World-liner and its 773ER larger sibling counterpart are still world-class workhorses for any airline that calls themselves global. I don't see Boeing relegating the 777 to the out of production line prior to 2020. That is unless they want to see premium prices for used ones on the market as they are for the now out of production 757!



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16425 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
Couldn't be better said! I think the 777 will be a highly viable air frame and an ace seller for Boeing for some years to come, well into the next decade. I've even observed speculation about an eventual 777-400ER/LR in many of these threads. The 787 will take "some" would be 777 sales at this point but the 772LR World-liner and its 773ER larger sibling counterpart are still world-class workhorses for any airline that calls themselves global. I don't see Boeing relegating the 777 to the out of production line prior to 2020. That is unless they want to see premium prices for used ones on the market as they are for the now out of production 757!

Agree 100%. Will the sales come in like they do for the 737...no. But over time they will add up. Even this year so far there have been 24 777 orders. Still pretty good for an aircraft of this size, especially when the 787 is grabbing all of the headlines.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a -400 version of the 777. It would have nice cargo capabilities in addition to the increased passenger load. Maybe this is something the 777 line needs to solidify its place in the Boeing lineup into the next decade. Instead of developing the a.net rumoured 787-11, I would much rather see a -400 version of the 777.


User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16330 times:

Well in my mind, the 787 is ultimately replacing the 757/767 and making it into one aircraft, we wont see the 777 die for a long time, not until its time for Boeing to replace it with an updated name. Call it a -400, or call it a 797, there will always be a Long Range Boeing like the 777.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16204 times:

Of course they'll let the 777 die - the question is when. Lets take a look at the prospects for the 777 line.

Until at least 2014 (earliest EIS date for A359XWB) the 772LR, 773ER, 777F will be best in class, with the 772ER getting a bit of competition from the 787-9.

From 2014-2016 from A359XWB EIS to A350-1000WBEIS only the 772ER is under direct competition from A359XWB and 787-10. Lets say the 772ER sales drop just for fleet comonality. Still 772LR, 773ER, 777F are best in class.

From 2016 on, 772LR, 773ER, 777F start facing serious competition. Now this is 10 years from today. Still the question remains, can Airbus deliver ALL the lift in that class of airplane? Of course not. Just as Boeing today can not deliver all the lift and sales of A333 and A345/A346 continue even in the presence of the 777 superiority. So Boeing continues to deliever 777F, 772LR, 773ER for another 10 years+.

So, even if Boeing does not do a thing, the 777 should have another 20 years+ of life left.

Now, I expect that Boeing will do one or more of the following:
- Develop 777 tanker for the airforce
- Develop a 773LR (with 120Klbs GE90s)
- Develop a 777-400 with 400 seats 3 class
- Remove about 15klbs of weight out of the 772LR and 773ER
- Certified a combination of slightly better SFC GE90s, winglets, inproved trailing and leading edge wing devices, lighter wireless IFE, for a combined fuel consumption improvement of some 5% across the line.
- Offer better discounts

All of that, will keep the line very much alive for 20-25 years+

So yes, Boeing will let the 777 die, but A.net may die way before that  Smile



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16140 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
So yes, Boeing will let the 777 die, but A.net may die way before that  Smile

 laughing   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Develop a 773LR (with 120Klbs GE90s)
- Develop a 777-400 with 400 seats 3 class

These two I see over the next 3-5 years.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSkyvanMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16113 times:

No, not in the near fturue, especially since they have not only heavily investedi n the aircraft itself but also in getting ETOPS regulations changed for it plus they spent money to improve the runway at Midway to further capability while operating under ETOPS. I seriously believe that the only way that the 777 will die is if they develop a huge version of the 787 or develop a plane to ocmplete directly with the a340 (basically a 4 engined 777 would be what boeign would need). Since it is unlikely Boeing will build a completely new 4 engined aircraft (rather than just updating the 747), The 777 seems to have a long future in my eyes.


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User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16099 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
Now, I expect that Boeing will do one or more of the following:
- Develop 777 tanker for the airforce
- Develop a 773LR (with 120Klbs GE90s)
- Develop a 777-400 with 400 seats 3 class
- Remove about 15klbs of weight out of the 772LR and 773ER
- Certified a combination of slightly better SFC GE90s, winglets, inproved trailing and leading edge wing devices, lighter wireless IFE, for a combined fuel consumption improvement of some 5% across the line.
- Offer better discounts

Looking at those:

-Develop 777 tanker: Chances of happening? 8/10...Highly likely. This would make sense. There is going to have to be some sort of replacement for the KC-10 and the KC-135, the T7 could do the job and thensome. And once you get the military involved, you are guarunteed some return for many years to come.

-Develop a 773 LR: Chances of happening? 7/10...Likely. If the 772 LR is a success this may be a viable option for Boeing. Deffinatly easier to pull off than say a 774.

-Develop a 774: Chances of happening? 4/10...Not likely. The only thing I think that is keeping this from being a 0/10 is the fact that Boeing did some studies in '99 I believe. What could make this much more likely is if the 748 is a dismal failure for Boeing.

-Remove 15klbs of weight/other improvements: Chances of happening? 10/10...Will Happen. This is the easiest option for Boeing, and the most likely. Combine this with the next option on your list (better GE90, winglets, lighter wireless IFE) and you have yourself a nice new variant. Also add a 787-style cabin and you have yourself a 777NG.

Out of all the options listed, the last one is the most likely. Maybe even call it the 777-400 to make it appear as an entirely new aircraft. The 787 cabin is a must, and it would be something airlines are interested in, as this one of the big hits with the 787. This will also increase the chances of "packages" where 787s and are purchased along with 777s.

And what about incorporating some of the GeNX technology into the GE90. Boeing is using the GeNX on the 747-8, in order to improve efficiency, maybe the same could be done with the T7. It just comes down to whether you could still have the same GE90 power.

With small improvements like these...5-10% increases in efficiency, the 777 life could be extended easily to 2025.


User currently offlineMymorningsong From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15968 times:

777-400 Viability? (by MotorHussy Jun 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=2813704&s=777-400#ID2813704

Good thread about potential of the 774 from a few months ago.


User currently offlineEatmybologna From France, joined Apr 2005, 412 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 15939 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 12):
Remove 15klbs of weigh

Call me skeptical, but how would they pull that off?  listen  I thought the T7 is already optimized? Are there some new material substitutes (carbon fiber) ? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. If they can, when do you think they'll be in service?

Thanks,  Smile

E-M-B



Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
User currently offlineGrantcv From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15817 times:

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 14):
Call me skeptical, but how would they pull that off? I thought the T7 is already optimized? Are there some new material substitutes (carbon fiber) ? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. If they can, when do you think they'll be in service?

I thought I read recently that there are plans underway to remove additional weight from some overdesigned components in order to improve the range of the 772LR for Qantas.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15809 times:

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 14):
Call me skeptical, but how would they pull that off? I thought the T7 is already optimized? Are there some new material substitutes (carbon fiber) ? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. If they can, when do you think they'll be in service?

Take a look at what Boeing did for the 767-400. This is a plane that came AFTER the first 777s rolled down various runways and into service. I can only think that the development of the 787 with all of it's composites can only enhance some future versions of the 777. By the time the 764 came along, there were other alternatives for most carriers except DL and CO who are the only carriers I know who fly the 764, BUT given that the 764 is so much more advanced than the 762 or 763 it has clearly been a contributing factor to Boeing being able to keep the 767 line open, whereas they decided to close the 757 line (although prematurely in my opinion).

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 8):
there will always be a Long Range Boeing like the 777.

Which is why Airbus will be playing "catch-up" over the next couple of decades in the wide-body, longhaul market.  stirthepot 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 15769 times:

Quoting Eatmybologna (Reply 14):
Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 12):
Remove 15klbs of weigh

Call me skeptical, but how would they pull that off?

Boeing has announced a program to remove about 12000-lbs from the 772LR to enable, among other things, better economics (payload) on SYD-LHR route.

Most of the improvements will be just from manufacturing and materials optimization. For example, better interior materials, certified lighter seats, lighter IFE, galleys, lighting, etc. Others will be from improved mannufactuing of parts and components with less weight. You'd be surprised how a lit bit here and a little bit there can add up.

Just think about this - a typical long range large airliner, carries about 800 lbs in magazines alone (that is an extra 4 paying passangers). If you save 3 lbs/seat on the IFE, that is another 1200 lbs (an extra 6 passangers). Things add up.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 15736 times:

The A350-1000 and B787-10 will (after several years) kill off the B777-300ER despite being smaller due to dramatically better operating economics. At that point, the line may stay open for a while building freighters and military versions.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
Now, I expect that Boeing will do one or more of the following:
- Develop 777 tanker for the airforce

40% That would require winning a contract first.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Develop a 773LR (with 120Klbs GE90s)

1% The B777-300ER already offers the payload/range performance that most airlines need. Small improvements may come from lower SFC and reduced weight. Development of a B777-300LR would cost more than it would net Boeing.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Develop a 777-400 with 400 seats 3 class

<1% Boeing have studied and rejected this idea. See the thread quoted above.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Remove about 15klbs of weight out of the 772LR and 773ER

50% This would not be enough to make the B777 competitive against either the A350 or B787 but it would increase sales and prices during the window before they become available.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Certified a combination of slightly better SFC GE90s, winglets, inproved trailing and leading edge wing devices, lighter wireless IFE, for a combined fuel consumption improvement of some 5% across the line.

Continued small SFC improvements are nearly certain. Wireless IFE is possible. Aerodynamic changes are very unlikely as that was just done a few years ago and there is no low-hanging fruit left. It is also very expensive.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
- Offer better discounts

100% chance of at least somewhat greater discounts.


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12890 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13150 times:
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Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):
As for Boeing's options as to countering the larger A350 variants, there are numerous routes they could take. Boeing is already marketing the 787-10 as an A359 competitor and 772ER replacement. As for the 773ER, Boeing could either overhaul the 777 with new technology, or launch Y3 in 2015-2020.

Let me join the corus agreeing with DfwRevolution. The 777F and 773ER (probably range extended) have a long time to go. Where I disagree is the 772LR. I don't see any of those selling after 2011. Its a niche market that where demand will be met quickly.

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 9):
From 2016 on, 772LR, 773ER, 777F start facing serious competition. Now this is 10 years from today.

Quite frankly, the resources soaked up by A380 development gave Boeing a long window with the 777. I was working on an engine for the A305 (a very 787 aircraft out of aluminum) when the A380 was launched. The next minute the A305 was put on the shelf.  Sad

Its all a question of when Y2 and Y3 are launched. One will have to come before the other... IMHO, I think Boeing should "protect" the single isle sector with a new product over the small 777 niche they aren't producing new product. I agree with Zvezda, the 787-10 and A350-1000 will effectively fill the niche the 773ER is now filling.

Hey, more products are better!  bigthumbsup 

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12914 times:

The short answer is...no.

The only aircraft capable of killing the 777-200 is the 787-10 and we are very far from that.

As others have said, the fact that the A350 is not off the ground and the A380 doesn't look like it will deliver before sometime in 2007 (or possibly later), so I agree that carriers will be looking for capacity and the 777-300ER is the candidate to fill that hole.

The 777-200LR has not sold as well as Boeing would have liked; that said, if they can get more weight out of the airplane so it can do a mission like LHR-SYD nonstop in both directions year round, then this program may continue for some time.

Of course, one should never say never, but with the problems at Airbus changing by the day, Boeing is definitely keeping its options open and with aircraft that will get the job done and can be delivered within a reasonable time frame, I think the 777 will be around for awhile.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11507 times:
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Boeing will develop a third generation 777. It will come in either a longer range model of existing size, 773LR, or it could be 774. New 787 technologies will spill over to later 777 like later 767's have of 777's. Boeing will also offer the two pronged 777/787 to better fit multiple mission then the A350. This has worked at Air Canada & Air India. ANA and JAL will also be huge user of both the 77/87. Whatever the third generation 777 looks like it will do for the 777 what the 744 did for the 747 or the 737NG did foe the 737.

User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10922 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
Where I disagree is the 772LR. I don't see any of those selling after 2011. Its a niche market that where demand will be met quickly.

This is such a misconception. A 772LR has better economics than the 772ER over most routes longer than about 4000nm and much better economics on ANY route longer than 5000nm - even considering the higher acquisition costs.

As DL did recently, you can expect to see a lot of non-specific 777 and 772ER orders converted to 772LRs.

Remember that the plane has just recently been certified and EIS and delivery slots are still hard to come by. The 772LR is and will remain the premier 300-seat long-haul airplane for quite some time, as the 773ER will remain the premier 350-seal long haul airplane.

Now, you can argue, correctly, that most airlines preffer their long haul airplanes in 350 rather than 300 seats. So the 773ER should outsell the 772LR, But other airlines, AA, DL, CO, etc preffer smaller planes due to ultra competitive environments. They, plus carriers with true ULH missions will buy the 772LR in pretty decent numbers.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10830 times:

The question is how far can GE and the others stretch the engines like the GE90-115, that´s
the limitation, not the airframe?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30566 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10830 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
Where I disagree is the 772LR. I don't see any of those selling after 2011. Its a niche market that where demand will be met quickly.

It's better then a 772ER beyond 2000nm in terms of economics and will carry a larger payload out to the range limits of the 772ER. I expect the 772ER's sales are about done thanks to the arrival of the 772LR more then airlines waiting for the 787-10 and A350-900.  Smile

The biggest drawback is the price tag, but Boeing will probably be willing to be aggresive to win orders while they can.


25 Shenzhen : Certainly Boeing can overahaul the 777 like they have with the 747 and 737 over the years. The only question is whether or not any overhaul will be co
26 Post contains links Pygmalion : Dont forget that Boeing is implementing lean production on the 777 line. Moving Line Article This will allow them to drive costs down and offer the a
27 Zvezda : I would bet 10 to 1 against it. That is irrelevant because the B787-10 will have much better economics than either. One can argue that, but it wouldn
28 Post contains images DEVILFISH : Just wishful thinking, but KC-777 winning against KC-330: 80%
29 Ikramerica : This is only my opinion, but if the 777 gets a NG program, it will involve a serious redesign of the structure including advanced materials for as mu
30 Jfk777 : The 777 isn't going any where, Airbus can't even decide what kind of A350 its wants. We had the A350, then the A350 XWD and now the A350 ???. BY 2015
31 SLCUT2777 : Airbus is ALWAYS 10-15 years behind Boeing! Who knows there might even be over 1,000 units of the 787 in circulation by then. I'll stand behind my ea
32 Post contains images Lightsaber : What I would also argue, but didn't write, is that that for most of the markets the 772LR is made for (4,000 nm, 250+ pax), once the A389 is in produ
33 NW727251ADV : Why do people keep bringing up a so-called "777-400"??? Hasn't it already been stated time and time again that the 777-300 pretty much is the limit fo
34 Post contains links and images American777 : The Boeing 777 will never die! Boeing will keep adding strenght (power) to the 777 and we will hopefully see something like this in the future? Modifi
35 Zvezda : But there are other possibilities: KC-767, KC-787, no order. That would be very good for Boeing. High resale values are good for sales of future mode
36 Post contains images AirbusA6 : Ah the usual voice of balanced reason...The mid 80s A320 was definitely behind the 737NG of course, and the A300 behind the 767 The 777 will continue
37 Ken777 : Right now I would put the chances of a 350-1000 getting produced as about equal to the 389 being produced. Both may have markets, but both will face c
38 Zvezda : Wow! I think the difference in probability is at least an order of magnitude. Right. They tried that and it didn't fly.
39 Baron95 : No. It that has NOT been decided. Other then A.net. The length to fuselage diameter ratio of the 777 is much lower (more favourable) than that of the
40 Zvezda : ... and Boeing. Fuselage heights are 222", 235", and 244" for the A340, B787, and B777 respectively. The ratio for the A340-600 is 13.0 to 1. The rat
41 Baron95 : Zvezda, I hear you. I am not saying the 777-400 WILL be built. I am saying that it CAN be built technically and it CAN make economic sense (either by
42 Zvezda : The last B777-400X proposal rejected by Boeing was for a 20 foot (6 meter) stretch. I didn't write "never ever." I wrote: I won't say the chances are
43 JAL : Eventually, Boeing will have to let current 777 fade away in history and replace it with a new family of aircraft but that's like at least 10 years fr
44 Post contains images Jacobin777 : 787-12
45 SLCUT2777 : It will continue to rule the skies of the long-haul wide-body market well past 2020, only then do I see it's sales starting to truly decline. Boeing
46 DEVILFISH : Yes, the likelihood of the USAF just re-engining and sticking it out with the KC-135 is always there. However, I believe the KC-787 was not in the re
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