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FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways  
User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 9323 times:

Recent announcement on new European services raise more questions about US longhaul fleet. Now with the potential delay of A350, will US consider ordering Boeing? Why not?

IIRC, US has already paid back the loan it received from Airbus. Any advantage for US to keep waiting instead of wasting a small window of opportunity to expand its internaitonal services... not to mention a new carrier will be awarded the right to fly to China in 2008. US needs to act quickly.


[QUOTE]"We still have a lot of options with the Philadelphia hub to fly into Europe with (Boeing) 757s, 767s and (Airbus) A330s," he said.

The newspaper reported, however, that US Airways lacked the planes to launch routes from its Phoenix base as well as longer flights from Philadelphia.

[QUOTE]

Appearing in today's paper.

Airbus A350 delay could affect US Airways - FT


Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 9286 times:

Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation, as we have seen dozens of probably / likely to be cancelled airbus orders.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...irbus+order+cancelling&sa=N&tab=nw

It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves? What is behind this? Pleasing the readers / customers?


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1720 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (7 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation,...

How could it be anything else but unclear and speculative? That seems to me to be a perfect description of the A350 program itself: unclear and speculative. Nobody knows what the A350 will be or when it will be built. Given that the aircraft specs and the EIS change every few months, what do you expect?



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 9172 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation, as we have seen dozens of probably / likely to be cancelled airbus orders.It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves?

It is indeed getting ridiculous; for months we are reading stories based on unclear sources, unnamed persons and often wild interpretation or speculation about Airbus orders which are likely to get cancelled...

The story always follows the same pattern:

(fill in the airline) which ordered (fill in the number) of A3XX (fill in the type designator) could potentially cancel its order as it reviews its commitment following (fill in the announcement).

As source for this 'news' the article quotes comments from the airline which do not fully rule out such a move as suggested by the article indeed (yet do not really confirm it either), but to make sure the reader reads it the way they see it, underpin their interpretation by referring to previous talk about other airlines which are also said to consider cancelling, forgetting these rumours are based on the same sort of ambiguous interpretation of general statements from that airline as well.

In doing so for months already, the press has created for itself an entire database of sources which -according to them- deliver strong evidence their self-created reality of interwoven events is for real, in a way similar to the story of WMD in Iraq: there were none, but everybody talked about it and used each other as a respected source: Bush used the CIA as a source, the CIA used intelligence agencies from abroad in support of their thesis, who in turn used much of what the CIA had to tell them and foreign government leaders pointed to Bush and the CIA in defence of their own intelligence... which in the end all proved to be wrong: oops, we got carried away a bit there, didn't we?

The articles then go on with once more copy-pasting a pre-written text about the recent delays to the A380 and A350 and the managerial shake up of Airbus. The more financially oriented publications then also refer once more to the fact EADS bought out BAe recently.

And there you have it: a new article, ready for publication, which nicely falls in line with what has been published in the recent past, so no need to be cautious or balanced.... if the article does not match the reality now, reality might just match the article at some point and otherwise, at least we've delivered some nice reading for now and we wont be blamed later for wildly speculating as we are just staying main stream, aren't we?


User currently offlineUSAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1445 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 9043 times:

I'm wondering about the financial obligation(s) US has to Airbus, should they decide to cancel.


336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 9027 times:
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If US orders anything, it will be additional A330s as it best fits their current widebody fleet strategy. So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 9026 times:

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 4):
I'm wondering about the financial obligation(s) US has to Airbus, should they decide to cancel.

Parker has been quoted as saying there are none and that the loans that Airbus granted to help them exit bankruptcy have been paid back.



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7377 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 9004 times:

Regarding the loan agreement, my understanding is that Airbus provided financial aid to US in return for being a launch customer for the A350. US has supposedly repaid the loan, does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains, or did they also have a clause in the contract which allowed the "obligation" to be converted into a "direct purchase"?

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 8969 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.

This might be the best solution and I believe US will go this way.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 708 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 8910 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
If US orders anything, it will be additional A330s as it best fits their current widebody fleet strategy. So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.

I can definately see US leasing or ordering some additional A330's as a stop-gap measure until the A350 becomes available.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 12 months 16 hours ago) and read 8851 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 9):
I can definately see US leasing or ordering some additional A330's as a stop-gap measure until the A350 becomes available.

Like there are lots of A330's lying around.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 8690 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
Like there are lots of A330's lying around.

 checkmark 

Perhaps some used 340's will find their way to Phoenix?


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 8579 times:

Quoting Par13del (Reply 7):
Regarding the loan agreement, my understanding is that Airbus provided financial aid to US in return for being a launch customer for the A350. US has supposedly repaid the loan, does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains, or did they also have a clause in the contract which allowed the "obligation" to be converted into a "direct purchase"?

There is nothing tying US to Airbus and the 350. I would'nt be suprised if you see US order the 787 early next year.


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):

It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves? What is behind this? Pleasing the readers / customers?



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
(fill in the airline) which ordered (fill in the number) of A3XX (fill in the type designator) could potentially cancel its order as it reviews its commitment following (fill in the announcement).

It probably has something to do with Airbus selling delivery slots for airplanes which won't be available for 2, 3, maybe 4 years after they were contracted.

That is just a guess....

Cheers


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31098 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (7 years 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 8443 times:
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Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
Like there are lots of A330's lying around.

Evidently Airbus is not having a problem getting them into airlines hands since SQ and LH, along with others, have placed orders for the model with deliveries starting next year.

So US should not have a problem acquiring them direct from Airbus or via lease (who could acquire them direct for Airbus) for delivery within the next two years.


User currently offlineDelawareUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 12 months 8 hours ago) and read 8243 times:

It would make sense for US to pick up some used 767-200er, and possibly even get some 300 or 400 new from Boeing. The concept of having a LAS or PHX aircraft that can get to Europe makes A330 less practicle long term.

I doubt they would go with the economics of A340, unless they can get some cheap.


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
Perhaps some used 340's will find their way to Phoenix?

I think a few A330-300 with four hair dryers slung under the wings (AKA A340-300's!) could be a good option for US Airways, as an interim measure until the A350 comes out.

I believe Air Canada will soon have a few spare, once the 777's start coming online.

The A340 could really open up some markets for US Airways like PHL-NRT, PHL-HKG, PHX-LGW, etc...


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 8052 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
In doing so for months already, the press has created for itself an entire database of sources which -according to them- deliver strong evidence their self-created reality of interwoven events is for real, in a way similar to the story of WMD in Iraq: there were none, but everybody talked about it and used each other as a respected source: Bush used the CIA as a source, the CIA used intelligence agencies from abroad in support of their thesis, who in turn used much of what the CIA had to tell them and foreign government leaders pointed to Bush and the CIA in defence of their own intelligence... which in the end all proved to be wrong: oops, we got carried away a bit there, didn't we?

The articles then go on with once more copy-pasting a pre-written text about the recent delays to the A380 and A350 and the managerial shake up of Airbus. The more financially oriented publications then also refer once more to the fact EADS bought out BAe recently.

And there you have it: a new article, ready for publication, which nicely falls in line with what has been published in the recent past, so no need to be cautious or balanced.... if the article does not match the reality now, reality might just match the article at some point and otherwise, at least we've delivered some nice reading for now and we wont be blamed later for wildly speculating as we are just staying main stream, aren't we?

What the hell does this have to do with the topic? Is it not a fact that US Airways will not be able to plan anything for the future with the A350w?? whatever plane the way it is going right now? STAY ON TOPIC


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25737 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 8009 times:

Quoting Par13del (Reply 7):
does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains,

In a recent employee meeting Parker stated the company was under no obligations to take the A350, however they were watching with interest the events at Airbus.

He also stated the company was in no particular hurry, but the delay could become advantageous as the carrier might end up with a much more capable aircraft then first envisaged.

US Air next aircraft priority is a competition to replace the large 737 fleet, with either more A32x aircraft or, new fleet of 737NGs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 8009 times:

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
As source for this 'news' the article quotes comments

Well according to the link provided by the thread starter the "source" is the President of U.S. Airways. Isn't that "credible" enough?

Quote:
US Airways President Scott Kirby told the economic daily that the company had no firm delivery dates for the A350 XWB.


[Edited 2006-10-28 00:45:30]

[Edited 2006-10-28 00:45:57]


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 12 months 7 hours ago) and read 7815 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
US Air next aircraft priority is a competition to replace the large 737 fleet, with either more A32x aircraft or, new fleet of 737NGs.

No, not really. There's not enough efficiency advantage in either the A32x or the 737NG, and both are "old-generation" aircraft - the last thing US wants to do is refleet with dinosaur aluminum jets when the "next-generation" narrowbodies aren't more than a decade or so away. The 737 fleet can be shrunk with some deliveries of already-ordered A32x and E190 aircraft, but I wouldnt expect a wholesale replacement for some time to come.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8322 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
however they were watching with interest the events at Airbus.

Isn't everyone?  Smile


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9235 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (7 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 7649 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 12):
There is nothing tying US to Airbus and the 350. I would'nt be suprised if you see US order the 787 early next year.

Stirring the pot here?

Heck, I suppose that IF they do this, that we'll start to see threads about how the A350 was doomed to failure even before its first customer even takes delivery, especially with US being the launch customer. Oh crap, now I am  stirthepot 

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 20):
There's not enough efficiency advantage in either the A32x or the 737NG, and both are "old-generation" aircraft

The 737NGs are "old-generation???" I think of MD80s and older 737 aircraft (733/734/735) as "old generation here. I dunno, I guess planes that are now 8-10 years old are considered inefficient and old-generation now. What are the MD80s then, antiques with wings??? The 733s and 34s that US is flying now still have a bit of life left in them and probably will not be fully replaced at least for another 5-10 years...

Besides, I don't think US is even interested in the 737NG. They will go with A319/320 and E90s for their 733/734 replacements and the A321 for the 757 replacement (on domestic routes, as the 757s will likely go to PHL for UK/Western Europe routes (or PIT for a LGW route, should US look into this when the time is right...)



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 7564 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
E90s for their 733/734 replacements

When the 190s were ordered it was stated that they were a expansion A/C, not a replacement for anything. There are no plans to park any other A/C in the next few years.

IMO the 190s were ordered to tie the midwest into the east network. Markets like OMA, OKC, SAT, AUS, ABQ, ICT.... ect. The 190s may not fly these routes, but the will free up other A/C that could.


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 12 months 6 hours ago) and read 7549 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
The 733s and 34s that US is flying now still have a bit of life left in them and probably will not be fully replaced at least for another 5-10 years...

Right, that's exactly my point. By that time, the "next-generation" narrowbody should be in the design/launch order stage, and I would expect US to look then for a replacement option - either Boeing or Airbus.

I agree with you re: the B752 and A321. Many of the 757s are used now on high-density domestic routes like PHL-BOS and CLT-MCO, where their higher performance isn't really needed. The 757s will probably hang around domestically for hot and high service to LAS and the short-strip Caribbean stuff.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
25 FCYTravis : Yes, and if you believe that I've got beachfront property next door to the Sandcastle to sell ya. I don't think they're going to wholesale dump the 7
26 Jdwfloyd : Perhaps on or two more A/C, but from the people at work I have talked to they need every A/C in the fleet. The last run on A/C being sent to the dese
27 Laxintl : Parker specifically stated they are looking to replace the 737-300/400 fleets at both US West & East and news would be forthcoming in '07. He also st
28 Supa7E7 : US's plan (we can say this without doubt) is to get to China by 2012 or earlier, no matter what. This means A350, 787, A340, whatever is necessary. So
29 Post contains images FCYTravis : Hmm, very interesting. I missed that part. Thanks!
30 UsAirways16bwi : IIRC US was looking at some A332s ( i thought they put in an order for several of them). the -200s could be used for the PHX/LAS-Europe routes, and at
31 Steeler83 : I heard that myself...
32 PlanesNTrains : While it seems they plan (need) to keep the 762's for a while, I would think that if they did acquire additional 767's that it'd be 763's - 762's app
33 N670UW : IIRC, US Airways already has 10 A330-200's on order for delivery starting in 2009. Additionally, I believe there are still 9 A330-300's on order, as
34 Mah584jr : This statement is false, but 10 332's are on order.
35 Columba : You see that you are getting old as I started to be interested in aviation in the mid 80s the 737-300, MD 80 and A320 were the newest jets around now
36 Ikramerica : This actually makes sense. It would cost less to put 737NG into the old 737Classic spots than to go all A320. Ground equipment, mechanics, pilots, al
37 FCYTravis : The 73G is "old generation" in the sense that its technology and efficiency is not nearly up to the standards now set by the coming B787. The 787 stan
38 Slz396 : Almost every paragraph of the reuters report mentions its source and the President of US Airways has only confirmed they don't have fixed delivery da
39 PlaneHunter : Not necessarily - eliminating one type would also help to save costs on the mid and long term. PH
40 UsAirways16bwi : oh...do you know when they are due to be delivered?
41 PlaneHunter : Currently they only have 10 A330-223s on order - with delivery undefinitely postponed. PH
42 Jdwfloyd : Or early 2008 thru 2009.
43 FCYTravis : False. It's a fact that Doug Parker has stated that US Airways is under absolutely no obligation to purchase the 777-sized A350XWB, when what they ac
44 A330323X : Unfortunately for US, it's not returning planes voluntarilty at this point. It obtained lease rates during its second bankruptcy that are lower than
45 Dutchjet : Very interesting situation.....aircraft leasing is a very complex transaction, and US is now being "penalized" for making very good deals when they w
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