Hrhf1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 105 posts, RR: 1 Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21622 times:
Looking at the great photo database here on a.net got me thinking. What is American going to do for a livery if/when they purchase the 787? As they can't exactly polish a composite frame to a high gloss aluminum shine, which color will they "gasp", paint the aircraft? Could this be the beginning of the end of their shiny birds?
I hereby declare the games of the American Airlines livery redesign...open.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 22934 posts, RR: 78 Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21654 times:
McLaren F1 paints their CFRP race cars in a really slick paint that mimics the look of chrome.
So AA should be able to find a paint that mimics the look of aluminum.
USFLyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1318 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21548 times:
The A300 flight was painted grey when they were originally delivered and after about 8 years, AA devised a way to make them polished metal.
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1549 posts, RR: 8 Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21527 times:
They paint the tail surfaces of quite a few airplanes now.
Jaxfll From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 93 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21335 times:
Quoting USFLyer MSP (Reply 3): The A300 flight was painted grey when they were originally delivered and after about 8 years, AA devised a way to make them polished metal.
Yeah, it was called stripping the paint off and taking Airbus to court!
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25566 posts, RR: 87 Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21189 times:
Quoting USFLyer MSP (Reply 3): The A300 flight was painted grey when they were originally delivered and after about 8 years, AA devised a way to make them polished metal.
Yeah, they stripped the paint off and polished off the bonded primer
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Scaledesigns From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21144 times:
Like Stitch said,Mclaren painted the F1 MP4/21s with a newly developed
chrome paint.Its as light or lighter than normal paint and looks almost
like a chrome bumper.I saw the cars close up and was amazed.F1 car
bodies are also carbon fiber.
Formula 1 cars are even more concerned about weight than airliners.
Avallillo From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 20325 times:
In the 1960's, the BAC-111 had a section of the fuselage over the wing that had a sort of gold tint to the aluminum - not fully gold, but a different shade of aluminum. AA used a kind of silver mylar overlay to cover this, and you can see in most of the BAC photos that the center section of the fuselage looks a bit brighter than the rest. This mylar didn't oxidize, you see!
No doubt something of the kind could be done with the 787. Of course, we may decide to paint them, but that adds hundreds of pounds to the airplane weight, and would likely be a last resort. We did indeed strip the A300's some time after we got them, and it was apparently worth the effort in terms of fuel saved over the last 8-10 years, or surely it would never have been done. We certainly couldn't afford to be doing something like that just for looks these days!
This is probably a bit premature, since to my knowledge (which is by no means comprehensive - we pilots are among the last to know!) we don't have any orders in for the 787 just yet. Too bad, because I would have liked to retire on that airplane, but unless we are flying them by 2008, that won't happen!
ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1568 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18665 times:
I was wondering this earlier too. I am hoping for an interesting new livery. I like the polished planes, but it's time for a change.
BlazingCessna From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 113 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17545 times:
Nonfirm From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 411 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17518 times:
N31029 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 101 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17191 times:
Hi Everyone.
I believe AA's current livery - even if a bit mature - remains striking, unique, and, visually appealing.
I do not believe the carrier has a compelling reason to modify or update it. It remains one of the most universally-recognized and identifiable in commercial aviation (a brand attribute that is desirable.)
And, even on new aircraft types (i.e. 777) it appeared fresh and full of renewed eye-appeal.
While I have not been consulted on this decision, I hope they continue with a beautiful, classic and still-contemporary scheme when (and if) they introduce 787 or any new models.
Cha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 744 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17164 times:
EBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1817 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17162 times:
Quoting USFLyer MSP (Reply 3): The A300 flight was painted grey when they were originally delivered and after about 8 years, AA devised a way to make them polished metal.
I believe they just stripped the planes down to bare metal.
KSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17139 times:
I agree. As more and more airlines switch over the Euro-White, it gives AA that "classic" look. The silver birds are so associated with AA, why change. I guess they could paint them white, like they do with the American Eagle aircraft, but there are some images on here that show MD-80s with a white livery, pretty nasty looking.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 9194 posts, RR: 63 Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16876 times:
I'm sure AA will work something out when it buys the 787 -- either figuring out a way to paint the skin in a shiny silver paint, or something else.
Quoting Airways6max (Reply 13): Their current livery is nearly 40 years old. Time for a change.
I think you'd find many people who would disagree with you on that one. The AA livery, currently the oldest unchanged major air carrier paint scheme in the world, is one of the most distinctive brand images in the world, let alone the airline industry, and AA's silverbird fleet is recognizable at any airport where it lands around the world, and has been for nearly 40 years. I highly doubt that it's going to be changing anytime soon.
"The airline industry is like church - many attend, few understand." - Robert L. Crandall
474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 16819 times:
The area over the wing on the BAC 1-11 was thick aluminum plate rather than aluminum sheet used for the rest of the fuselage. The thicker plate material added stiffness to the airframe. However, the aluminum plate was not Alclad coated. Since the section lacked the pure aluminum Alclad coating it had to be treated for corrosion using alodine. When American polished the BAC 1-11's that section over the wing did not have the high gloss finish of the rest of the fuselage.
LimaNiner From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 354 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16657 times:
Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 8): Formula 1 cars are even more concerned about weight than airliners.
F1 teams are concerned with weight, true, but the rules prescribe a minimum weight. Every team has the technology to build cars with a total weight below the minimum, so a couple of "extra" kilos due to paint isn't going to matter much to them -- as long as that extra weight doesn't perturb their weight distribution.
Airliners don't have any minimum-weight rules -- the lower the weight, the better.
Incidentally, F1 used to prescribe a *maximum* permitted weight (this is back in the 50's, if not earlier -- I'm too lazy to research it right now). Mercedes showed up with their latest race cars at a race, and at weigh-in, it was discovered that the cars exceeded the max permitted weight by a couple of kilos. A quick-thinking team chief ordered the paint sanded off to get just under the max weight limit. The cars dominated the race, and were nicknamed Mercedes' "Silver Arrows" ("Silberpfeile"). Ever since then, Mercedes' race cars have been silver.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 19 Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16628 times:
I think the AA livery looks almost cheap or low rent next to the new liveries from UA, US, and NW. It's classic, sure, but it's just not as rich or appealing as CO's, and nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing as some of the newer liveries.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Pl4nekr4zy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 464 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16355 times:
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 21): I think the AA livery looks almost cheap or low rent next to the new liveries from UA, US, and NW. It's classic, sure, but it's just not as rich or appealing as CO's, and nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing as some of the newer liveries
Well said. The livery looks pretty sharp on a brand new aircraft, when the finish still shines. But after a while, as the polished finish wears off, the planes start to look tacky and unkempt. However, I doubt AA will make any changes anytime soon.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 54 Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16342 times:
Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 19): I believe they just stripped the planes down to bare metal.
They didn't do this with the A300. That's why AA was so upset about Airbus painting the aircraft grey in the first place. So what Airbus did was re-skin the aircraft, so the polished metal livery was possible, although the end result was a polished metal aircraft with more grey "patches" than any other aircraft in AA's fleet. These patches were the result of areas which couldn't be re-skinned.
With a regular Airbus fuselage skin, polished metal liveries are impossible.
SkyvanMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 224 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16246 times:
Aren;t some American Eagle aircraft painted white, I remember hte Shorts 330/360 they oeprated were and maybe they could od that for a mainline jet as well.
The 3 best planes of all time: Shorts Skyvan, 330 and 360
25 AAL0616: Although, yes, the 787 will present unique challenges for the "bare metal" look, and perhaps more than exist now, certainly in differing light conditi
26 Scbriml: The simple solution to this "problem" is for AA to order the A350.
27 Teamspeedy: but it does affect the weight distribution, the more weight you have up high the harder it is to make the handling, Willaims F1 developed with PPG a
28 UAL777UK: IMHO opinion AA's livery is now a little dated and needs tweeking just to sharpen it up a bit. How they would do that, is open to question!!
29 Starglider: Just wondering, are the paint specifications for F1 cars identical to aircraft paint specs? F1 paint is probably used for one season max. while aircra
30 Teamspeedy: try a couple of races max (sometimes just one). i think the original poster was trying to say was McLaren use a paint to achieve a similar goal as to
31 Penguinflies: I believe the white md-80 might have been one of the ex-reno birds that was returned to the lessor.
32 Mandala499: They can always paint it like Virgin Atlantic... not polished bare metal... Mandala499
34 TristarSteve: Aircraft skins are aluminium. But aluminium corrodes badly in air, so the aluminium is clad with an alloy that can be left unpainted and not corrode.
35 Ha763: Actually, alclad is an aluminium alloy covered with a layer of pure aluminium. Aluminium alloys are more susceptable to corrision than pure aluminium
36 Srbmod: All American Eagle and American Connection a/c are painted white. After American bought Reno Air, most of those a/c remained retained the white fusel
37 Freedom747: AmericanAirlines: DON'T change a thing. You're gorgious.
38 Hrhf1: But is is not inevitable that change will come someday, and this could be the catalyst for it? With the development of composite planes to grow in th
39 AirSpare: I'd like to see the red, white and blue stripes moved to the Boeing "wave" style, at about the same positition. Dark grey of blue underneath, and chro
40 BA787: If you had asked me a year ago I would have disagreed, but now I think it's time for a change. Some guy on FS has devised a really nice livery for th
42 Scaledesigns: Limaniner ,The F1 teams like to distribute the weight in the areas of the car they choose.They go overboard when overdeveloping anything. Im am sure t
43 Spencer: Sorry if this has been said already, (I can't be bothered to read all the posts!), but the F1 car you're all talking about could be (I believe it is)
44 Burnsie28: Its a laquer based paint, you find it in model shops, basically you paint a black base coat, and then paint the alclad chrome over that and it gives
45 474218: " target=_blank>http://www.alclad2.com/ Thats not the Alclad used on "real aircraft". Ha763, has provided an excellent explanation of Alclad aluminum
46 TristarSteve: I knew that, and it was what I wanted to say. Sorry for misinformation. Must try harder.
47 Scaledesigns: Alclad could solve some of the problems,or maybe another metal based paint could help with the lightning strike problems. Spencer,I believe it is like
48 NWADC9: That's from the Reno Air/American merger. That's why AA also had MD-90's for a while.
49 Spencer: I wonder how that works IRL!? I haven't seen such a method and I've worked with composites, alloys and most metals. Everything I've worked on has bee
50 Boeingfever777: LMAO... AA will never change the livery. It's called Dupont. They can make paint change in the sun they can do something for AA and there polished me
51 Access-Air: For your sake, I hope this wasnt something that you didnt squander too many brain cells worrying about or lost sleep over.....This is a case of when
52 Starglider: I was being on the conservative side which is why i mentioned max. All i can say is that i sometimes observe what the operational environment and fra
53 Hrhf1: Hey guy, lighten up. Until ALL your post are topics of such a profound nature aviation CEOs are waiting to read you, I don't need your attitude. If y
54 Stitch: No doubt Boeing is taking this into account, as they are taking all the other CFRP-specific/CFRP-related issues folks keep bringing up into account.
55 JAXFLL: What is that supposed to mean? That's what AA did. As for not being able to have a polished airbus aircraft, you could if Airbus would use matched al
56 Galapagapop: I'm sure Boeing can scrounge up something as lets remember AA is going to order 50+ 787's (possibly 100+ thereafter) and the even larger prospect of r
57 Ferret: It's funny you mention CO's, cause I think their livery is looking pretty tired. Maybe more tired than AA's. Of course, I live near EWR so all I SEE
58 Spacecadet: AA *will* change their livery. It's just a question of when. I don't really see what's so striking about their current livery anyway - it's pretty mu
59 Commavia: I wouldn't be so sure about that. At most, I think AA may eventually move to painting the planes silver instead of just having bare metal, as the met
60 Boeingfever777: Pull your head out of space! They will NOT change their livery. You think they got extra cash laying around for that? If they got the extra cash they
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