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Delta's 757's  
User currently offlineRick From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 129 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

Delta took delivery of it's first 757 in 1985, that makes the oldest plane 21 years. Does anyone have any inside info. or opinion of how long Delta will keep the early build planes and when they will begin retirement of their oldest 757's? It is hard to believe they just reired their 727's and already retirement of it's first few 757's might be near.

Also, I wonder if the 727's were of better build and quality than the newer 757's. Does anyone have any info. on the maintenance cost of the 727 vs. 757? That would be an interesting comparison just like many feel MD aircraft were built better than Boeings.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6227 times:

The 757s are here to stay for a while. Delta is installing new IFE, PSUs, and leather seat covers, which means that they are not going anywhere in the short term. The 737RS will likely include a 757 replacement model, and once it is announced, we will likely see an order from Delta. I personally think that the MD-88s and MD-90s will be retired before the 757.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6178 times:

Delta's going to hold on to each and every 757 that they have in their fleet and could even acquire more of the type in the future if suitable airplanes become available......consider that DL recently signed up to lease ten ex-TW/AA 752s and could be interested in the remainder of the fleet.

Delta knows how to maintain its airplanes.....21 years old is nothing more than middle age for a well maitained airliner.....and the 752 is still one of the most effecient airplanes around. With DL re-allocating much of its widebody fleet to international flying, the 757s have a hugely important role in Delta's domestic fleet. And, we could see DL flying some 752s on transatlantic services in the near term future.

Delta rushed the 72S fleet into retirement as a response to the downturn in air traffic after 9/11......Delta, like other major airlines, was fighting to survive and had to cut capacity quickly. The 72S were the grounded mainly due to their 3 engine/ 3 man cockpit arrangment.......being that the 757s have 2 engines, 2 pilots and deliver outstanding operating costs, the 752s will remain in service for many years to come.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6140 times:

Quoting Rick (Thread starter):
Delta took delivery of it's first 757 in 1985, that makes the oldest plane 21 years. Does anyone have any inside info. or opinion of how long Delta will keep the early build planes and when they will begin retirement of their oldest 757's?

The earliest birds will begin to be retired toward the end of 2007 and in 2008.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
consider that DL recently signed up to lease ten ex-TW/AA 752s and could be interested in the remainder of the fleet.

DL is actually acquiring 13 ex TW/AA 752s having recently been able to sign on for another 3 aircraft.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6143 times:

DL really isn't in a position where they can retire many more domestic mainline a/c right now.

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6143 times:

The 757 is awesome. I sure do miss the flights out of MDW on TZ's when I worked out that way. Of course, I seldom get to see DL's.

I have to agree that plane will be in DL ops for years to come, thank goodness. What a great rocket ship!

I guess better for me, the 757s will be in and out of ORD with AA, UA, NW and HP, plus whomever else wants to fly them in and out. Bring them on.

M


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6125 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
The earliest birds will begin to be retired toward the end of 2007 and in 2008.

I was not aware of this......how will they be replaced??

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
DL is actually acquiring 13 ex TW/AA 752s having recently been able to sign on for another 3 aircraft.

I believe there are 4 more airplanes in the exTW/AA fleet.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
I was not aware of this......how will they be replaced??

By a combination of the new 757s and 738s on shorter legs. Some shorter 738 flying will be moved to longer flights and shorter 738 flights will be covered by a combination of MD88s and another aircraft.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
I believe there are 4 more airplanes in the exTW/AA fleet.

Not sure about that, but can tell you that Delta has now signed for a total of 13 of the birds.

[Edited 2006-10-29 01:16:44]


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineWsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
The earliest birds will begin to be retired toward the end of 2007 and in 2008.

 Wow!... How many birds do they plan on retiring?



Blue Skies Ahead!!
User currently onlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1992 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

It's too bad Boeing didnt hold on to the 757 for another year. I think if the 757 was still around CO would have put in an order and maybe even NW by now. But, I bet Boeing asked around before shutting it down and nobody was interested. I figure CO, DL, NW and even US would want more 757s for international flying. Plus, on a domestic level I could see DL using some 757s to shore up CVG-Florida routes and then take those 738's and move them onto routes out of ATL that probably don't need quite a 757 (ATL-ONT comes to mind), freeing up more 757's for International and Domestic operations.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 9):
It's too bad Boeing didnt hold on to the 757 for another year. I think if the 757 was still around CO would have put in an order and maybe even NW by now.

Unlikely.......no airlines wanted more 757s (and Boeing asked everyone several times around before closing down the line), airlines are simply using their 757s more effectively on routes where there is money to be made.


User currently offlineSpruceMoose From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 9):
I think if the 757 was still around CO would have put in an order and maybe even NW by now.

My understanding was that Boeing convinced CO to convert their last few 757 orders to 737NG (-900's, I guess).

If true, it suggests that a 737 provided more profit than a 757 (not surprising if the difference in production cost is greater than the difference in what people will pay for them), and Boeing decided to drop it's more capable but less profitable line and shoehorn everyone into 737s.

Sad, but understandable.

[edit] This is not to say that sales had not slowed down, but it seems like Boeing stopped the line at least a few frames short of when they had to. I guess at that rate they weren't economical to build any more.

-SpruceMoose

[Edited 2006-10-29 02:53:41]


It flew at an altitude of six feet for a distance of four and a half feet. Then we discovered rain makes it catch fire.
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

Quoting Rick (Thread starter):
Delta took delivery of it's first 757 in 1985

Ship 602 was delivered 11/05/84 and ships 603-605 were also delivered in 1984.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5743 times:

Quoting SpruceMoose (Reply 11):
My understanding was that Boeing convinced CO to convert their last few 757 orders to 737NG (-900's, I guess).

Almost correct.......CO originally ordered 15 753s.....the order was converted to 9 753s plus 6 738s. Its one of those things that made sense back when the decision was made, but I suspect that now CO would rather have the 753s.

Quoting SpruceMoose (Reply 11):
This is not to say that sales had not slowed down, but it seems like Boeing stopped the line at least a few frames short of when they had to. I guess at that rate they weren't economical to build any more.

If the 757 was offered a bit longer, many suspect that NW would have ordered additional 753s....when NW ordered the 753 it was inteneded to be a DC10-40 replacement, flying US mainland domestic routes.....the idea to use it for West Coast-Hawaii services came much later.

Other than that, airlines really were no longer interested in new build 757s, most carriers were focused on the 737NG/A320 aircraft which could fly many of the routes handled by the 757.

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 12):
Ship 602 was delivered 11/05/84 and ships 603-605 were also delivered in 1984.

Its hard to believe that DL will retire these birds in the 2007 or 2008 with ""ONLY"" 23-24 years of service, as suggested by the posts above.


User currently offlineTomascubero From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2005, 525 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
DL is actually acquiring 13 ex TW/AA 752s having recently been able to sign on for another 3 aircraft.

Smart move, I guess these aircraft are not that battered up and are PW equipped like DL's fleet.

The 757 is a great plane and I wouldn't think DL would retire it soon, I just saw a couple of days ago ship 610 inside, I don't know if it has been refitted with the new gear but I did see PTV's on all the seats and nice blue leather seats, looked very comfy.

Cheers!
Tomas.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

Since DL will become the world's largest operator of the 757 when the ex-TW ships are transferred from AA (which is now the world's largest 757 operator), it will take a very long time to replace the 757 even when something comparable is available. And right now, there is nothing comparable. The 739ER is nowhere near the airplane the 757 is.

While the ex-TW 757s are technically similar to DL's existing 757s, they are functionally new aircraft since they will be used for new over the water flying which DL has not done before rather that serve as replacements for DL's older 757s.

[Edited 2006-10-29 04:59:01]

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2331 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Quoting Rick (Thread starter):
Delta took delivery of it's first 757 in 1985, that makes the oldest plane 21 years. Does anyone have any inside info. or opinion of how long Delta will keep the early build planes and when they will begin retirement of their oldest 757's?

The first four 757s were delivered to Delta in 1984, all of these aircraft are still in service. Delta did lease 45 757-232s (many of them newer aircraft) to Song between 2003-2006 but they have been returned since Song ceased operations.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2331 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 9):
It's too bad Boeing didnt hold on to the 757 for another year.

Look on the bright side, you will likely fly on many more 757s for years to come. Almost every major airline in the US has a fleet of 757s.

I am more disappointed in Boeing's reluctance to market and continue production of the MD90/95 family. Obviously they wanted the airlines to buy the 737 NG, but you have to wonder how many sales were potentially lost to the A319 family, which could have been 717 sales, had they made an effort to market the aircraft and make improvements.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5438 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):


The earliest birds will begin to be retired toward the end of 2007 and in 2008.

Does this include 610? That's one of the oldest, but they've invested so much money into it...between the song IFE and the Breast Cancer livery....etc



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

Quoting Rick (Thread starter):
That would be an interesting comparison just like many feel MD aircraft were built better than Boeings.

There are many people who want DL to keep flying the MD-88/90 platform longest since before the 1970s DL had almost an exclusive history of flying ONLY Douglas aircraft.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
The 757s are here to stay for a while. Delta is installing new IFE, PSUs, and leather seat covers, which means that they are not going anywhere in the short term. The 737RS will likely include a 757 replacement model, and once it is announced, we will likely see an order from Delta. I personally think that the MD-88s and MD-90s will be retired before the 757.

Very much agree with you especially the last sentence. Along with more 777s and a possible future 787 order, DL needs to look to unload their remaining Douglas heritage aircraft in the short term if they are to keep costs down and fleet commonality up.

Quoting LV (Reply 9):
It's too bad Boeing didn't hold on to the 757 for another year. I think if the 757 was still around CO would have put in an order and maybe even NW by now. But, I bet Boeing asked around before shutting it down and nobody was interested. I figure CO, DL, NW and even US would want more 757s for international flying. Plus, on a domestic level I could see DL using some 757s to shore up CVG-Florida routes and then take those 738's and move them onto routes out of ATL that probably don't need quite a 757 (ATL-ONT comes to mind), freeing up more 757's for International and Domestic operations.

Looking at the market for used 752s in particular it is easy to draw such a conclusion, and I've even felt that way at times. The 752 is a highly versatile a/c, and is perfect for the trans-con between a large hub like ATL and a smaller focus operation on an opposite coast like say PDX, or SLC to virtually any sizable focus operation back east from there.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
DL is actually acquiring 13 ex TW/AA 752s having recently been able to sign on for another 3 aircraft.

They need more of these for SLC and west coast operations to Hawaii where the 764ER was overkill (SLC-KOA, OGG) as well as to use some to try NYC-JFK service to some of the more moderately sized Europe markets where a 763ER is overkill.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Delta's going to hold on to each and every 757 that they have in their fleet and could even acquire more of the type in the future if suitable airplanes become available......consider that DL recently signed up to lease ten ex-TW/AA 752s and could be interested in the remainder of the fleet.
Delta knows how to maintain its airplanes.....21 years old is nothing more than middle age for a well maintained airliner.....and the 752 is still one of the most efficient airplanes around. With DL re-allocating much of its widebody fleet to international flying, the 757s have a hugely important role in Delta's domestic fleet. And, we could see DL flying some 752s on transatlantic services in the near term future.

I think DL will hang onto even their oldest 752's until at least 2010 when Boeing might at least have a comparable replacement a/c officially in the production pipeline. If they start unloading their oldest 752s next year, then it will most likely be due to someone like FedEx (keep in mind FedEx has made it known they are VERY interested in used 757s) or UPS making them an offer they can't refuse.

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 17):
I am more disappointed in Boeing's reluctance to market and continue production of the MD90/95 family. Obviously they wanted the airlines to buy the 737 NG, but you have to wonder how many sales were potentially lost to the A319 family, which could have been 717 sales, had they made an effort to market the aircraft and make improvements.

 laughing   rotfl   rotfl 
Do you really think Boeing had the ability to continue to improve a DC-9 offshoot any further? I think the whole 737NG program is to make Boeing more competitive with the Airbus A320 platform. I don't think Boeing could ever make a design originating back in the mid-1960s competitive with design that came in the late 1980s.
Time to park the last of the Douglas era designs in the desert  duck  !  razz 



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1859 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5339 times:
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Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 16):
Delta did lease 45 757-232s (many of them newer aircraft) to Song between 2003-2006 but they have been returned since Song ceased operations.

Song was not a separate entity. It was still DL reg with DL ship numbers and ownership it just was flying in Song livery and layout. Delta Air Lines Inc. d/b/a Song Airlines



The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4746 posts, RR: 45
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5327 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 19):
They need more of these for SLC and west coast operations to Hawaii where the 764ER was overkill (SLC-KOA, OGG) as well as to use some to try NYC-JFK service to some of the more moderately sized Europe markets where a 763ER is overkill.

really clark?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

I just realized that American currently has 143 757s and Delta has 121. If we take 13 of theirs we'll have 134 to their 130. Delta will operate the largest fleet in the world of my favorite airliner! That is if they don't retire some as has been suggested they will.

DL757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineDeltaJet757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

DL still trying to aquire 757's. I remember hearing something about them trying to get some 757's from TWA and AA. It only makes sense to retire the old ones.

-DeltaJet757



FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

Alitalia744
SLCUT777s comment does make some sense (as much as I agree with you on many other subjects).

Delta is looking to maximize its flexibility on the Atlantic (777, 764, 763, 752), the addition of the TW 752s will help them do that. Now, having said all of this, IF there are some 757s in DLs fleet that are costing them a mint to maintain, there is an argument for retiring some of those aircraft. I don't know if DL plans to put winglets on their 757s; but its been my opinion for a while now that if DL, with its improved onboard product on that aircraft starts operating them across the Atlantic on some of the thinner markets where the 763 is too big, they will have a winning product. The 738s can be flown transcon, no problem as well as be used on short haul flying with reasonable economics.

However, and as I've always maintained, my crystal ball is as murky as the next guy's. I just have a little bit of airline planning experience under my belt...which probably makes me even more dangerous as an armchair route planner.

Ciao baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
25 Post contains images Alitalia744 : It makes sense, however the plan is in place for the beginning of the retirement of the earliest birds in the fleet. That being said, both you and I
26 Ex NWA : A little off-subject..but not much. I have noticed on DLs web-site the 757 seat maps now show 22 seats. They have always been 24 in the past. If this
27 Baw716 : Alitalia744: Amen. ExNWA: DL has three 757 configurations (one is Song), one is a "standard" configuration and the other is a "transcon" configuration
28 Post contains images Cactus739 : Yes....I believe that was actually mentioned in reply 2 and 3 of this very thread!
29 Dl757md : We've had a few seating configurations even before Song came along. The 22 seat F class config is on ships 6901-6904. The difference is because we ac
30 WorldTraveler : DL has always been much more tolerant of different seating configurations than other airlines. All you do is pre-assign the common seats and then keep
31 Post contains images Garri767 : Put those two replies together and you get his! (reply 2, reply 3 = reply 23....oops! got caught with cheap humor ) On a more serious note, DL will k
32 MCOflyer : DL mx is very good. DL could keep their 757's for 30yrs and not retire one. MCOflyer
33 Okie73 : Delta maintenance is great. And they could proabably keep the 757s flying for 50 years. The question is at what point do the costs of maintaining an
34 TrijetsRMissed : I disagree, if the merger was really a merger and not a takeover then who's to say the MD and Boeing designers could not have worked together to impr
35 SLCUT2777 : And which one has sold more a/c over the years and why? I will have to assert that it was more of a takeover and to get at McDonnell-Douglas' lucrati
36 TrijetsRMissed : The MD-80 series sold somewhere around 1,500 aircraft, thats not peanuts. To this day AA has 305 MD-82/83, I don't think any airline has ever had tha
37 SLCUT2777 : Sorry, but they will be the next narrow bodies to make a mass exodus from DL's fleet I will predict. They'll be long gone before there is any mass ex
38 Panamair : These are the ex-SQ/ATA birds. The F cabin on these are actually fantastic - seats with legrests and extra pitch. They are used primarily for 'northe
39 SLCUT2777 : Which is all the more reason for them to acquire as many of the newer 752s from the former TWA fleet now held by AA. Hence I can only speculate they
40 Bucky707 : I have nothing to base this on except my gut feeling, but I will bet FedEx ends up buying RR powered 757s.
41 Alitalia744 : what you flying these days? -G
42 SLCUT2777 : If that is the case, then DL can pretty much run the table on the ex-TWA 752s. But if FedEx wants RR powered 752s, they'll have to compete with Canad
43 Bucky707 : MD88
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