HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4526 posts, RR: 71 Posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12804 times:
Air France has just published and loaded into the reservation systems a first draft summer schedule for the 2007 season. There are quite a couple of changes, particularly in the transatlantic network. Here is an overview of the most important changes:
Air France is to introduce a sixth daily frequency between its CDG homebase and New York's main JFK airport. The return portion on this roundtrip will operate as the airline's first daylight transatlantic flight. Here is the schedule for that flight:
Air France will continue to operate 5 overnight rotations on the JFK route, just like last year operated with B772 (twice daily), B77W (twice daily) and B744 (once daily). Only the B777 flights offer a three class service, whilst the B744 and A332 aircraft are operated in a 2-class setup. As a result of these reinforced JFK operations, Air France will downgrade its daily CDG EWR rotation to an A332 only.
In Canada, meanwhile, Toronto Pearson will see a considerable capacity increase, when Air France's daily A343 operated flight is upgraded to a B744 for the summer. In addition to this capacity increase, AF's partner KLM will introduce 5 extra AMS YYZ rotations, bringing the total number of flights on this route to 12 weekly.
Montreal has always been an important station for AF, and next summer will see the return of the B773ER on the CDG YUL route - after just one year of absence -, in addition to a daily B744 afternoon flight. The evening flight from CDG will next year operate with a mixture of A343 and A332.
A number of B744 frames will be introduced into Air France's mainline network after they have been replaced in the Caribbean and Indian Ocean network by additional B773ER frames with holiday configuration which are due to arrive in the first half of 2007. Apart from Toronto, also Boston and Atlanta will see the deployment of the B744.
As for Boston, last summer's twice daily A343 operations will be replaced by a daily A343 and a daily B744, which represents quite a capacity increase for this route. This winter, AF is deploying a daily B744 to BOS. Atlanta has recently been downgraded from a 3-class to a 2-class station, with the deployment of the A343 this winter. Next summer, that same flight will be upgraded to a daily B744, emphasizing the importance of the CDG ATL interhub route. The AF-operated CDG ATL flight is also getting new timings, allowing for increased connectivity at ATL. Another interhub route, between Paris and Cincinnati is not expected to return to the Air France network next summer. Codeshare partner Delta is now planned to operate the only nonstop between the two hubs.
Washington's Dulles airport will receive an eclectic mix of Air France aircraft next year, when the airline will deploy the B772, B773 and A332 on its three daily flights. No major changes are planned for Chicago (daily A343), Houston (B772 + A332), Detroit (A332), Philadelphia (A343), Miami (B744) and San Francisco (B744 for the summer, up from A343 in winter). Los Angeles will continue to see the A343 deployed on the 4 weekly Papeete rotations. This is a continuation of the current winter schedule. An A343 is flown is flown in weekly to assure these four Tahiti roundtrips.
Central and South America
Mexico will once again receive the Air France B744 next summer, when daily evening flight will be operated with B744 four times weekly. The other three evening flights will operate with A343. Air France also continues to operate a daily 3-class B772 between CDG and MEX, leaving Paris in the 1pm longhaul departure bank.
In Brazil, Air France is once again increasing frequencies next summer, when the airline plans to reinforce the current five weekly southbound daylight flights between Paris and Sao Paulo to daily. As such Air France will operate twice daily flights into Guarulhos, once with A332 and the overnight rotation with B772ER, down from the B773ER this winter. Rio continues to receive a daily B744.
Further south, Air France will for the first time continue to operate nonstop flights between Paris and Santiago de Chile during the northern summer. Thrice weekly nonstops between the two cities are planned as well as a thrice weekly one stop service via Buenos Aires. The Argentinean capital will continue to be served daily, with four of these flights dedicated terminator services whilst 3 flights are to continue to Santiago. All flights to Argentina and Chile operate with B772.
Africa and the Middle East
Not much news in the African and Middle East networks. Air France will continue to operate 12 weekly frequencies into Johannesburg (daily B77W + 5 weekly A343), up from the 10 frequencies last summer. Also, Air France will return to Kenya, albeit via a codeshare agreement with Kenya Airways, which will operate thrice weekly services into Paris commencing this winter. Flights are operated by KQ's B767s.
In the Middle East, Air France is planning to reduce frequencies to Dubai during the heat of the summer. Partner KLM is for the first time doing the same thing.
The most eyecatching change in Air France's Asian network will be the further increase of frequencies to Hongkong. Last summer, the airline introduced 3 additional flights between CDG and HKG, with these extra flights operating with a daylight westbound sector. This winter, these extra flights are being upgraded from the initial A332 to the B772. Next summer's schedule is further boosting capacity by adding three more HKG rotations, making this second Hongkong service 6 weekly and growing the total number of flights between Paris and Hongkong to 13 weekly. All 13 service are operated with the B772.
In Southeast Asia, Bangkok and its tag ons Ho Chi Minh (Saigon) and Hanoi are to once again receive the A343, down from the B744 which is being deployed during the busier winter season. Singapore continues to see a daily B77W flight.
In India, Air France is downgrading Delhi services from the B744 this winter to the A343. Mumbai continues to receive the B772, while Bangalore sees a continuation of daily services with A332. Chennai, the airline's latest addition in India, is continuing to see thrice weekly A343 ops.
China is an increasingly important market for Air France and the airline will once again boost services there to twice daily with B777. AF already operated such a regimen last summer. Services to Shanghai (10 weekly, B772) and Canton (thrice weekly, A343) remain unchanged. Also, services to Korea (daily B77W) and Japan (20 weekly NRT and daily KIX) remain as before.
LAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7952 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12669 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter): Another interhub route, between Paris and Cincinnati is not expected to return to the Air France network next summer. Codeshare partner Delta is now planned to operate the only nonstop between the two hubs.
This doesnt surprise me at all. Its another kick in the shins for the guys in Northern Kentucky. This seems to go hand in hand with the reduction in service from CVG on DL. Were the loads on this flight good? If they were, maybe AF is just reading the writing on the wall. If not then the service could probably be better elsewhere anyway.
The loads were fine but I couldn't tell you anything about the yields. I can guess that the yields were crap since A) it's CVG, B) the daily local demand between CVG and CDG could probably fit on a CRJ with seats to spare, and C) the rest of the traffic that fills up the plane is competing with other airlines and a handful of hubs in the Midwest alone.
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12633 times:
Damn, I used to remember taxiing right by that giant Air France A340 in my tiny CRJ in CVG. The first time I saw it, I stupidly thought it was a 747 because it had 4 engines (I was something like 9 at the time). It sure will be missed, however it might help Delta further with their CVG-CDG route.
It will also be nice to see another 744 in ATL next summer!!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
The problem with continental Europe is that you're one time zone farther, making the departure/arrival times that much uglier. You can't get much connecting opportunity on the NYC end, and you're limited on the CDG end to a few late night African and Asian departures which I don't think are driving a lot of volume. Therefore I imagine you have to rely heavily on local traffic between NYC and CDG, and that local traffic overwhelmingly prefers a redeye given the absence of a daylight flight until now.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4196 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 4 days ago) and read 12337 times:
Good to see the pending increase in lift for Boston. Since it works on the LHR route for AA and BA, why wouldn't AF try a daylight flight from BOS-CDG? Maybe a small A330 in the morning and the 747-400 at night?
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4934 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12133 times:
Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6): Or are the LHR/CDG markets very different? Both are very important international cities.
LON-NYC is a larger market than Paris-NYC as shown by the number of flights in both the markets. London is a very important financial centre (more important than Paris I think) and there are stronger political and historical links between London/UK and New York/US than Paris/France and New York/US.
Flyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12101 times:
Assuming at least one hour for connection time, these are the most logical connection destinations one could get from JFK. LBV, LOS, DXB, and JNB., the is from checking the flight status for tonights CDG departures. East bound to JFK should do well, as passengers can connect off later European flights into CDG.
I am curious to see which one of the legs will make more money : the CDG-JFK leg, because it is leaving later than 6.55pm (current departure time for last CDG-JFK flight), meaning business travellers will be able to work a real full day in Paris before heading to the airport, or the CDG-JFK leg, because a lot of ppl will like to fly during the day to minimize jetlag or to get quicker connections to Asia/Africa that way...
Anyway, it is great that AF innovates like that on the France-USA market.
HB-IWC, no news on potential new cities for the summer 2007 ? I assume they may want to wait a little more before announcing them ? Or would they already be in the first draft of the schedule if there were any ?
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11940 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4): The loads were fine but I couldn't tell you anything about the yields. I can guess that the yields were crap since A) it's CVG, B) the daily local demand between CVG and CDG could probably fit on a CRJ with seats to spare, and C) the rest of the traffic that fills up the plane is competing with other airlines and a handful of hubs in the Midwest alone.
You honestly have no clue.
As DL has restructured CVG, there aren't as many frequencies on the domestic flights thatwould feed the int'l flights so AF will probably abandon is CVG flight because DL has taken the best connecting flights.
CVGCDG has consistently been DL's highest yielding and load flights to Paris - and on their entire transatlantic system. CVG not only has a pretty high percentage of business traffic for a city of its size but it also still provides service to over 100 cities; even on a directional basis there are dozens of cities that connect to/from DL and AF's CVG int'l flights.
AF is not happy with all of DL's int'l growth - much of which is to routes that overfly CDG. Problem is that NW and CO are doing the same things to AMS and CDG too. DL is also reducing some of its own capacity to CDG because of moving its India flights to JFK nonstop and downgauging as the 777s are sent to Asia. Much of AF's growth in North America is to try to keep capacity up where its US partners are cutting. Unfortunately for AF, there will be even more of this as nonstops to all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia make European hubs much less necessary.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8691 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11659 times:
New York is the most important USA market for AF, after so many evening flight to CDG an A332 in the morning can work. As previously mentioned on this board, AF has many evening connections to Africa. This couls provide seemless JFK to J'berg service.
Cba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10902 times:
Will the time frequencies be the same for the IAH route? This summer they had the regular 772 leaving in the afternoon, and a 332 later at night. Now, they've swapped, having the 772 leaving at 1030 and the 332 leaving in the afternoon. I'd think that they'd want more seats in the earlier flight, as it connects to more destinations. I suppose that demand for first and business seats must be higher in the evening.
Also, why have Air France and Continental yet to codeshare? They are both Skyteam, yet I have still yet to see any signs of cooperation. Can I even get OnePass for flying AF?
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13): Unfortunately for AF, there will be even more of this as nonstops to all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia make European hubs much less necessary.
Who honestly has no clue?
European hubs will continue to be just as necessary as there will always be small and mid-size cities in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South Asia that will never warrant non-stop service to the United States. Most of these cities will be of higher yield than the non-stop services, as well, since there is less competition.
Kiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10326 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter): In India, Air France is downgrading Delhi services from the B744 this winter to the A343. Mumbai continues to receive the B772, while Bangalore sees a continuation of daily services with A332. Chennai, the airline's latest addition in India, is continuing to see thrice weekly A343 ops.
I am not surprised by this. While all airline are upgrading, AF downgrades DEL and holds most constant. AF reputation in India is abysmal especially amongst high-yielding pax.
Kiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10182 times:
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 23): However they just grew from 2 cities to 4 cities. I don't understand your point.
MAA was picked primarily due to DL's lack of aircraft + subsequent cancellation + direct to BOM. At the current market growth levels in India, going from 2 to 4 cities is not a significant accomplishment. DEL/BOM generates tons of HYPAX and given market growth is 20-50%, one could have expected better capacity from AF. IMO, this was not the case as HYPAX in India do not prefer AF/transiting through CDG.
: Thank you for the info! However: The first daylight eastbound transatlantic flight. What do you mean with the last sentence? I guess you are talking a
: Air France flies every Thursday an A343 CDG LAX which subsequently operates four weekly roundtrips between LAX and PPT. On Monday, this aircraft retu
: Oh now I see, thanks! So actually there is no more direct one-stop CDG-PPT service on AF since CDG-LAX is now AF74 and LAX-PPT is AF674 - two separat
: That is right, although on Thursday there is a same plane service from Paris as the A343 is flown in as CDG LAX and then continues as LAX PPT, albeit
: The westbound trip will certainly do well, though expect, with delays of 45 minutes or more to park at T4. The connecting factor will be great for a
: The market is different and the "potential" on the line too. I remember a few years ago, when we were asking to AF's managers why AF had only 1 Daily
: JFK-CDG-NRT is 43.6% longer than the non-stop JFK-NRT. Not very attractive!
: actually, AF uses T1 @JFK, not T4... unless they've changed that in the last couple of weeks...
: Nice to see AF is doing so well on the PHL route that it will be upgraded to an A340. This is also interesting because PHL is not a Skyteam hub with
: Do you have any information regarding European network summer schedule ?
: HB-IWC. AF344/345 YULCDG will be upgauged to B744 COI from 11Jun to 10Aug. That is a massive capacity gain.
: Are you sure that this flight will be upgraded from a B773ER to a B744 COI ? If it's the case, that will be for the last season, as this "COI Configu
: My bad.. the first flight is in classic config.
: CDG YUL is seeing quite some variation throughout the summer, but the first flight of the day (AF344/345) is planned with B77W for the most part of t
: Sure ... but the Charms of Air France worth to spend 43,6% more time with us !
: Any rumors/news on new destinations for 2007? As a resident of Seattle- I keep hoping that the new frequent flyer relationship with Alaska, and the re
: That Air France je-ne-sais-quoi wears off quickly in Y
: For Winter 2007, maybe. But more likely in 2008. SEA and DEN have been rumored for a long time, but also PHX, as well as YVR (Not allowed for the mom
: I'm crazy about this flight because of connection possibilities to JNB, for example. AF will be able to connect to: PVG BKK SGN HAN HKG SIN PNR PHC B
: Actually it's not AF's first eastbound daylight transatlantic flight. Appears everyone has forgotten about Concorde. AF also operated a daylight flig
: The 744 next summer is great for BOS, but the new schedule sucks. The second flight which has always departed between 19:30 and 20:00 is pushed back t
: You are right, of course. I just thought we were discussing the current schedule...
: AF has rescheduled CDG-BKK-SGN/HAN services to depart Paris earlier in the evening, around 7.30pm so there are no connections possible between the ne
: Excluding markets that already have a nonstop, that adds up to a whopping 96 pax per day in 2005; when you exclude JNB it drops down to 1.8.
: And those cities have how much int'l service? Oh, and saying that you "guessed" that the yields were "crap" will get you dissed no matter how badly y