it seems that in trying to make the "lengthened" 747-8I able to go 8000nm, they have cut into the uderfloor cargo capacity significantly.fuel has risen from 60125gallons to 64225.
The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity
given the 773ER can take 44 LD3s and A346 42 and even the 744 30, the A380 38, is this "relative lack" of cargo space hindering its sales???
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15932 posts, RR: 64 Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2306 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 2): it is a big mistake that they will offer such limited space for cargo....
If it was such a big mistake, then I imagine the majority if airlines polled would not have chosen the option when Boeing offered it to them.
Even EK says (for the moment) they want range over payload in the 747, so I expect they'd accept even less underfloor space if it meant the plane could fly the DXB-North American routes they desire it to.
Avianca From Peru, joined Jan 2005, 4945 posts, RR: 47 Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 3): If it was such a big mistake, then I imagine the majority if airlines polled would not have chosen the option when Boeing offered it to them.
yes with so much orders that Boeing has already on hand for the new 747...
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15932 posts, RR: 64 Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 4): yes with so much orders that Boeing has already on hand for the new 747...
47 frames and counting!
Seriously, Boeing has been in consultation with at least 25 airlines. And those consultations include things like payload and range and the trade-offs necessary to achieve one or the other. That Boeing has now formally decided to go with the stretch, even though it reduces payload to maintain an 8000nm range, implies to me that the majority of airlines wanted at least an 8000nm range and were willing to take a payload hit to get it.
And, after all, Boeing may not be required to use the entire space for additional fuel tankage. I imagine there will be multiple ACTs and not just one large one, so airlines that don't need the full 8000nm range could omit one or more ACTs and recover that space for cargo.
Ha763 From United States, joined Jan 2003, 2797 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2153 times:
Considering that the 744 has 5 pallet spaces in the front, while the 748 has 7 pallet spaces in the front, the front of the 748 will have an increase of 4-6 container spaces over the 744. In the rear, the 748 has 2 more container spaces. So the 748 would have a 6-8 increase of container space over the 744.
Widebodyphotog From United States, joined Jun 1999, 916 posts, RR: 67 Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2100 times:
Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter): it seems that in trying to make the "lengthened" 747-8I able to go 8000nm, they have cut into the uderfloor cargo capacity significantly.fuel has risen from 60125gallons to 64225.
The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity
I have not read the text of the article, I'll have to wait until tomorrow, but if the crux of it is that the longer 747-8 passenger has less underfloor space it is patently false. The shorter 747-8 had an underfloor config of 6 M size pallets forward and 18 LD1/LD3 or 5 M size pallets + 2 LD1/LD3 aft and bulk at 520cu ft. The new, longer version has 7 M size pallets forward, same as 747-8F, and the aft configuration is unchanged, and total underfloor capacity has increased by 4 LD1/LD3 to 40 from 36 according to Boeing.
The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15932 posts, RR: 64 Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2097 times:
Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7): The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.
I was wondering if Boeing would try something like that. Thanks for the confirmation.
Trex8 From United States, joined Nov 2002, 2908 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1925 times:
if both diagrams are drawn to scale, the new longer version gains one pallet forward and loses 2 containers aft!
is the fact that they are not showing toilets or galleys moved "upstairs" an indication there are no takers for that configuration??
Trex8 From United States, joined Nov 2002, 2908 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7): The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.
in the AWST article there is a table supposedly sourced from Boeing which shows the fuel capacity
CURRENT CHARACTERISTICS PREVIOUSLY*
Passengers 467 450
Cargo (Intercontinental) 5,705 cu. ft. 7,085 cu. ft.
7 pallets, 16 LD-1 containers 36 LD-1s
678 cu. ft. bulk storage 785 cu. ft.
Cargo (Freighter) 30,177 cu. ft. (total) 30,170 cu. ft.
24,327 cu. ft. (main deck) 24,327
34 96 X 125 in. pallets same
5,850 cu. ft. (lower hold) 5,843 cu. ft.
12 96 X 125-in. pallets same
2 LD-1 containers same
Engines Four GEnx-2B67s same
66,500 lb. maximum thrust same
Maximum Fuel Capacity Intercontinental: 64,225 gal. 60,125 gal.
Freighter: 60,925 gal. 56,825 gal.
Maximum Range Intercontinental: 8,000 n.m. same
Freighter: 4,475 n.m. same
Maximum Takeoff Weight 970,000 lb. 960,000 lb.
Typical Cruise Speed Intercontinental: Mach 0.855 same
Freighter: 0.845 N/A
Dimensions
Wingspan 224 ft. 7 in. 224 ft. 9 in.
Overall length Intercontinental: 250 ft. 8 in. 243 ft. 6 in.
Freighter: 250 ft. 8 in. 250 ft. 2 in.
Tail Height 64 ft. 2 in. 63 ft. 6 in.
Interior Cabin Width 20.1 ft. 20 ft. 1 in.
Stitch From United States, joined Jul 2005, 15932 posts, RR: 64 Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1517 times:
These charts are all really helpful, Widebodyphotog, for data points if not analysis (though I personally find them valuable for that, as well).
s there a place where you make them all available for download? I've been fortunate enough to download the ones you make available via posts, plus I have found some more using Google, but I am not sure I have "the complete set".
Ikramerica From United States, joined May 2005, 18424 posts, RR: 60 Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1387 times:
Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter): The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity
If this is from the article, it is wrong. Period.
Boeing had this mistaken 7000 cu ft number on the website for a very short time a while back, and I noticed it then, too, but it was since corrected.
6400 cu ft for the new 748i is indeed an increase over the previous iteration and the 744.
Further, the 744ER had even less cargo space, so the 748i with greater range has significantly more cargo space than the older 744 that approached that range.
But, obviously, due to the old design compared to more modern jets, there is less room for pallets in the length of the body than say a 777 or 340 series.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Trex8 From United States, joined Nov 2002, 2908 posts, RR: 18 Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1229 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13): Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter):The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity
If this is from the article, it is wrong. Period.
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