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PHX Bids For New US Center  
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

Hello all...

I was reading on the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Website, and found the article about Phoenix placing a bid for $25 million to land the US center. Here is the link, enjoy all  Smile

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06305/734512-28.stm


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkyHarborsHome From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 273 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

Would it not make sense for it to be in PHX since US HQ is in Tempe or is this not the standard practice?


Fly CHD!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Quoting SkyHarborsHome (Reply 1):
Would it not make sense for it to be in PHX since US HQ is in Tempe or is this not the standard practice?

In my opinion, all three are good possible locations for this center...

PHX, for obvious reasons, such as that stated in your argument there
PIT, large focus city, already suffered loss of 10,000 employees to PHL, CLT, PHX and other locations. US already has a center here employing over 400 people, and this will likely be removed if US chooses CLT or PHX over PIT
CLT, largest domestic hub.

All three are strategic locations, but it will come down to who has the best bid...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

this may sound stupid but; what do they mean by US Center?


Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 3):
this may sound stupid but; what do they mean by US Center?

Operations Control Center. It's where the dispatchers and flight planners are located--the nerve center of the airline. That's where the diversions and in-flight emergencies get reported so the airline knows where all the planes are at all times.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 4):
Operations Control Center. It's where the dispatchers and flight planners are located--the nerve center of the airline. That's where the diversions and in-flight emergencies get reported so the airline knows where all the planes are at all times.

thanks a bunch



Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

I doubt that it will be on the west coast. Flights on the east coast launch between 0530 and 0630 est. The dispatchers need to be there about an hour or more before the first big push preparing the releases. So during daylight savings time the majority of daylight dispatcher in PHX would need to be at work around 130 in the morning. It just doesn't make sense to have such a large work group starting at such an odd time. If it were to end up in PHX the first shift (with the most workers) would work from 0130 to 0830. The second shift would work from 0830 to 1630 and the 3rd shrift would be on from 1630 to 0130. None of these shifts are really that conducive to a normal life style (other than 2nd shift).

User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5356 times:

There is always the LAS redeye hub to think about as well. I'm still of the school of thought that where the OCC is located will have a minimal effect on operations.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

I agree with what some others have said. It just makes operational/logistical sense to keep it in Tempe or nearby headquarters, like most every other airline in the U.S.

User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 6):
So during daylight savings time

arizona doesn't observe daylight savings



Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 9):
arizona doesn't observe daylight savings

But the last time I checked the majority of America does. Give me a few minutes to check on that, but I am fairly sure that is the case.

During daylight savings PHX is 3 hours behind EST. The rest of the year it is 2 hours behind.


User currently offlineCactushp From United States of America, joined May 2004, 348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5318 times:

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 9):
Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 6):
So during daylight savings time

arizona doesn't observe daylight savings

The point was that even if AZ did observe daylight savings, many employees would have to wake up very early. Although I agree that the location of the OCC will not affect the airlines operation.



Sorry, I was on the landline
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 4):
dispatchers and flight planners

Same person...  Wink

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 6):
I doubt that it will be on the west coast. Flights on the east coast launch between 0530 and 0630 est. The dispatchers need to be there about an hour or more before the first big push preparing the releases. So during daylight savings time the majority of daylight dispatcher in PHX would need to be at work around 130 in the morning. It just doesn't make sense to have such a large work group starting at such an odd time. If it were to end up in PHX the first shift (with the most workers) would work from 0130 to 0830. The second shift would work from 0830 to 1630 and the 3rd shrift would be on from 1630 to 0130. None of these shifts are really that conducive to a normal life style (other than 2nd shift).

The above factor is why I love being in the central time zone....

We have 4 sectors that run 0500-1300 and 1300-2100 and run the east coast departures. (Those 0500 starts are really popular. NOT!)  Wink

We also have about 13 sectors that run 0600-1400 and 1400-2200, and about 11 others that run 0700-1500 and 1500-2300, and they handle central and western time zones.

As Jdwfloyd mentions, convert all these shifts into PHX time, and it gets downright brutal on the body, and affects a larger number of people.

Prior to the merger, USAirways had its HQ across from DCA with the OCC close to PIT (right down the road at RIDC, IIRC) so there is some precedent there for not having an OCC co-located with the corporate HQ as most airlines do.

I'm curious to see how it gets decided....


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9268 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5236 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Prior to the merger, USAirways had its HQ across from DCA with the OCC close to PIT (right down the road at RIDC, IIRC) so there is some precedent there for not having an OCC co-located with the corporate HQ as most airlines do.

And that is still there at the RIDC. The Pittsburgh folks said that if US chooses PIT, then they'll locate that center on airport property as opposed to off grounds at the RIDC park...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 13):
And that is still there at the RIDC. The Pittsburgh folks said that if US chooses PIT, then they'll locate that center on airport property as opposed to off grounds at the RIDC park...

Thanks, I couldn't recall if they were still there--it's been years since I was there for an ADF meeting and got a tour. But hey, I -did- survive a visit to the "Glass Tower" hotel...  Wink


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5166 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 14):
"Glass Tower" hotel

Don't give it that much credit, it's just a motel. The bar downstairs does have good wings and women in Hooters style uniforms.  Smile


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 15):
Don't give it that much credit, it's just a motel. The bar downstairs does have good wings and women in Hooters style uniforms.

Oh, I know, especially the "Tower" part. ADF leadership moved the meeting to the Red Roof across the street...


User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5152 times:

From what I understand PHX has the best financial incentives out of the 3 locations. However the MT Time Zone is definately something to consider.

If it comes down to PIT vs CLT...then I think that CLT has the better incentive package than PIT.


User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5097 times:

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 17):
If it comes down to PIT vs CLT...then I think that CLT has the better incentive package than PIT.

What is CLT's incentive package?


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5002 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 18):
What is CLT's incentive package?

The laws in North Carolina don't obligate CLT to reveal their incentive package unless it's selected, unlike those in Pennsylvania and Arizona.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineBridogger6 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 6):
I doubt that it will be on the west coast. Flights on the east coast launch between 0530 and 0630 est. The dispatchers need to be there about an hour or more before the first big push preparing the releases. So during daylight savings time the majority of daylight dispatcher in PHX would need to be at work around 130 in the morning. It just doesn't make sense to have such a large work group starting at such an odd time. If it were to end up in PHX the first shift (with the most workers) would work from 0130 to 0830. The second shift would work from 0830 to 1630 and the 3rd shrift would be on from 1630 to 0130. None of these shifts are really that conducive to a normal life style (other than 2nd shift).

This argument is quite flawed. Most airline are very much a 24 hour operation. With this logic, we should also have operation centers in Europe to account for that time difference. The fact is, that with redeyes, and international departures crossing over into completely different time zones, there is a need for staffing 24 hours around the clock, no matter what city the OCC/SOC is in. So whether it is on the east coast or in PHX, you're going to need to staff it 24/7.


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4906 times:

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 20):
This argument is quite flawed. Most airline are very much a 24 hour operation. With this logic, we should also have operation centers in Europe to account for that time difference. The fact is, that with redeyes, and international departures crossing over into completely different time zones, there is a need for staffing 24 hours around the clock, no matter what city the OCC/SOC is in. So whether it is on the east coast or in PHX, you're going to need to staff it 24/7.

 checkmark 
Also keep in mind the Hawaii departures, which depart after 1 or 2AM PHX time. Any OCC/SOC must be around the clock. Each sector will likely have diffierent start times and not necessarily follow a 7-3,3-11,11-7 schedule pattern.



.......
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 20):
This argument is quite flawed. Most airline are very much a 24 hour operation. With this logic, we should also have operation centers in Europe to account for that time difference. The fact is, that with redeyes, and international departures crossing over into completely different time zones, there is a need for staffing 24 hours around the clock, no matter what city the OCC/SOC is in. So whether it is on the east coast or in PHX, you're going to need to staff it 24/7.

With all due respect, I think you've completely missed his point, and as a result, it's your response to him that's flawed.

The issue he brought up isn't whether their OCC needs to be a 24-hour operation (it does, and is), it's exactly when the shifts would need to start relative to local time at the OCC versus what the needs of the airline are. Given the high number of flights they have east of of the Mississipppi, there would have to be appropriate staff to both plan and flightwatch, and should the OCC be located out west, it's not too difficult to imagine those shift times resulting in some oddball ones relative to local time out west, especially the morning shift(s).

[Edited 2006-11-02 20:36:16]

User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

Quoting Cltguy (Reply 17):
If it comes down to PIT vs CLT...then I think that CLT has the better incentive package than PIT.

Well, how do you know the incentive if they don't have to release it?



I think it is going to come down to PIT and PHX. With more employees at the Pittsburgh operation, I would suggest leaving the center put. If this means PIT needs to offer more incentives, then so be it. The ACAA would be stupid not to fight for this one.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

I know that PHL isn't the greatest airport for US at the moment, but why hasn't that city submitted a bid for the center? It's the most profitable hub and it might make some sense to check out that location.

25 Post contains links Steeler83 : I just read some more on this matter in today's Post Gazette... Well, on their webpage anyway... http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06306/735080-100.stm A
26 EasternSon : Most of the people I've talked to who work for US Air in Pittsburgh (off-airport) seem pretty convinced they'll be out of a job by December 2007. Mana
27 Steeler83 : I agree. I think enough US employees in Pittsburgh got the axe. Don't kick a dog when it's down... I think that's how the saying goes... PIT is now p
28 Jmc1975 : But it IS broke. One airline running two seperate Central Operations Centers is NOT conducive to its long-term financial health and it would be at a
29 Steeler83 : Given that the hq and all the jobs for the most part were relocated to Tempe, AZ, I would like to see the central ops center stay out East, but that i
30 Vega : The laws in North Carolina don't obligate CLT to reveal their incentive package unless it's selected, unlike those in Pennsylvania and Arizona. I'm w
31 CentPIT : Odds are, as usual, that the Operations Center will be moved to PHX. I will not be surprised one bit. US Airways is looking for the city with the best
32 Steeler83 : You and me both! I hope the ACAA is smart here and drops the whole "we don't need US" attitude and pitch something to keep whatever is left of US in
33 Commavia : Honestly, it makes a lot of sense. It is completely logical for an airline as big as as the new combined USAirways to have its operations control cen
34 OPNLguy : With new aircraft dispatcher jobs at Part 121 Domestic/Flag airlines being so rare these days, you really think a couple of hundred of them are going
35 CentPIT : Yep, most people will quit. Would leave home after living there all your life, and pull your kids out of some of the best schooling in the country (P
36 Steeler83 : The PIT area is trying to recover economically with local business either beeing bought out by larger corporations (Westinghouse by Toshiba) or becom
37 Alias1024 : I don't see an issue with scheduling and having SOC in Phoenix. The graveyard shift can start with the LAS redeye flights, then prepare the European i
38 ERJ170 : NC has a strong record recently (past 3-5 years) of offering very nice incentives for major corporations moving into the state. If it comes down to th
39 OPNLguy : Sorry, but I'll have to disagree. Many (if not most) of the folks there have been there for awhile and do indeed have ties to the community. There ma
40 Steeler83 : I would like to add something else regarding Pittsburgh's economic state... In the past, many of Pittsburgh's larger companies that were bought out b
41 Vega : Don't be so pessimistic. Rendell can be a formidable advocate. He can offer State money and other incentives, such as subtly hinting that delivering
42 Charliejag1 : I work in the SOC in Phoenix. The current shifts change times are 0530, 1330, and 2130. I can honestly tell you that no decision has been made, contra
43 Vega : Since all of the affected workers are supposed to be offered a transfer from wherever to wherever, what's your guess on what % of the PHX crew would
44 Cltguy : From what I have read the PIT bid incentives are mostly loans...whereas the CLT bid is mostly tax grants. From what I have read it seems that PHX has
45 Silentbob : People in PA don't think like normal people, especially those from PIT. My in-laws live out there and the vast difference in their mentality since mo
46 CentPIT : It is still easier for me to listen to some of the annoying slang of Pittsburgher's than that of the south. Every once in a while, I will find myself
47 OPNLguy : That may well be true for alot of employee groups, but as there are so few dispatcher jobs out there for (and those that exist are at entry-level pay
48 CentPIT : I do understand where your coming from, I am just speaking for the people of Pittsburgh that I know. Some of my friends parents commute to PHL where
49 Charliejag1 : That is hard to say. You can do surveys to try and figure out how many will move to which cities, but in that situation many people will say 'I wont
50 Jmc1975 : Have you seen that city zoning amendment sign that has been placed in front of the Flight Center along Buckeye Road? I wouldn't think they would have
51 Post contains images Steeler83 : Don't talk smack on the Pittsburghese dialect; it makes the region more unique!!! As far as Pittsburgh being more superior to other parts of the coun
52 CentPIT : I don't even fight these people who don't even know anymore. I just agree and move on...
53 Post contains images Steeler83 : Hmmm, fair enough. I really shouln't take some of this stuff personally anyway. It's nothing more than bs to do nothing more than
54 USPIT10L : When you have local govt. that is more interested in lining their own pockets and getting their pals in cushy jobs, progress is impossible. All the l
55 Steeler83 : I wonder if that proves my thoughts then, that the local politics out there have sealed the fate for the burgh. They could've had much better, but th
56 Silentbob : Actually it's out by Star lake Ampitheater or whatever they call it now. The area was built on industry and manufacturing, two two areas where Americ
57 Steeler83 : It's actually the Post-Gazette Ampitheater now, and the one in Station Square is the Chevrolet Ampitheater (used to be the IC Lite Ampitheater... Any
58 CentPIT : I don't agree with you here at ALL! NO, it is the Post-Gazette Pavilion!
59 Charliejag1 : The city sign hos nothing to do with zoning. It is a notice for temporary signage for the building. There was just a new sign installed out front whe
60 Steeler83 : Has this guy been to Pittsburgh, let alone PA. I guess the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Betsy Ross' House, The Monongahela Incline, US Steel Buil
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