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How Do I Get Load Factors!?!?!  
User currently offlineGpeso8 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 5 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5043 times:

How does one find load factors for a flight, and can I look at the stats over a month/year?

Thanks a ton!

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSJUSXM From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

As far as i know load factors are only available to those who have access to an airlines reservation system. (SABRE, APPOLO...) I may be wrong but im pretty sure.


AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
User currently offlineKwcarolma From Australia, joined Jun 2006, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

You probably need to know some insiders, perfectly from revenue department of the airlines you're looking at.

User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

Just go ask the Westjet CEO!

 duck 



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

If I was running an airline, I would want to keep my load factors secret. Why let the competetion in on a good thing, they can do their own market research.

User currently offlineFDXMECH From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

You'd like the old Peoplexpress mx logbook. It would list each flight and pax count.


You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineGpeso8 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

I'm doing a research report for my High School on the domestic traffic in the West Coast of the U.S.... (California, Nevada, Arizona)....is there any way i can find the number of passengers whom flight between these areas!

Thanks a ton,

Gpeso


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 4):
If I was running an airline, I would want to keep my load factors secret. Why let the competetion in on a good thing, they can do their own market research.

That's exactly what they do, it's proprietary information for the most part. Unless you're an employee or a travel agent or something, it's gonna prove pretty difficult.



PHX based
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4312 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4809 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Gpeso8 (Reply 6):
I'm doing a research report for my High School on the domestic traffic in the West Coast of the U.S.... (California, Nevada, Arizona)....is there any way i can find the number of passengers whom flight between these areas!

www.faremeasure.com, and the DOT has more updated numbers on their website.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 7):
That's exactly what they do, it's proprietary information for the most part. Unless you're an employee or a travel agent or something, it's gonna prove pretty difficult.

You can get a general idea from the seat maps on the airlines' websites, although they aren't the most accurate.



Next fights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

Many airlines post month to date and daily load factors in their employee news letters and you can check flight loads on internal systems. If you happen to know an airline employee, they can probably hook you up. Other than that, they are hard to find.


Hey Swifty
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 8):
You can get a general idea from the seat maps on the airlines' websites, although they aren't the most accurate.

Actually, ask any frequent flyer, those are awful for determining load factors.



PHX based
User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4658 times:

Load factors can easily be obtained for historical data (i.e. last year) since the load factor is simply RPM's divided by ASM's, which are readily available data. Month-by-month and route-by-route is about as detailed of information that is available. DoT provides great sources of data for domestic and US international routes. Additionally, databases are available that can provide this for air carrier information wordwide. Contrary to some people's beliefs, all airlines have such databases that enabled them to compare load factors per month on various city pairs. Of course in the airline industry, the load factor plays a small role in an airline's profitability - yield is the most important thing. (RASM - CASM)

User currently offlineSpyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4658 times:

Load factors can easily be obtained for historical data (i.e. last year) since the load factor is simply RPM's divided by ASM's, which are readily available data. Month-by-month and route-by-route is about as detailed of information that is available. DoT provides great sources of data for domestic and US international routes. Additionally, databases are available that can provide this for air carrier information wordwide. If you have any particular routes that you are interested in, I'd be happy to provide you with load factors as I have access to such a databse.

Contrary to some people's beliefs, all airlines have such databases that enabled them to compare load factors per month on various city pairs. Of course in the airline industry, the load factor plays a small role in an airline's profitability - yield is the most important thing. (RASM - CASM)


User currently offlineBusrep319 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Go to the airlines website, or various financial websites (yahoo finance is a good one) and take a look at the 10-Q financial filings. It takes a bit of sifting, but midway through the reporting section is last quarter's load factors.


Never, ever moon a werewolf!
User currently offlineBkkair From Thailand, joined Aug 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Try this site from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics of the US Govt. It's not that easy but you can download spreadsheets and then do your best to interpret the data:

Go to the reports for Air Carrier Statistics (Domestic and Foreign).

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databas...1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0

If there is an easier way, I hope someone will let me know too!

Good luck.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2819 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4487 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 8):
www.faremeasure.com, and the DOT has more updated numbers on their website.

Watch out when using Faremeasure.com. See this link for details:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3048697

For the same data, only in a more recent and accurate format, go to this site:

http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...le_files/consumerairfarereport.htm

Table 6 is the same data as FareMeasure. If you care to compare FareMeasure to these quarterly tables you'll see the data on FareMeasure is several quarters old. Also, take a look at more than one quarter to get an idea of the seasonality of travel. That's something FareMeasure doesn't take into account or disclose to the user at all.

Finally...and I hope I can explain this clearly enough if this is new to you, the datasources talked about in this thread give two related but *different* pieces of information on routes.

The DoT stats shown in the consumer air fare report (which is the same stuff as FareMeasure, only newer and better-defined) talks about the TOTAL MARKET for travel between two cities. This information is quarter-by-quarter. Let's use San Diego-Seattle as an example to illustrate what this data is and what makes it distinctive. This datasource will tell you how many people flew each day where SAN was their origin and SEA was their final destination, and vice versa. Doesn't matter if they bought a ticket for an Alaska nonstop, or if they took a Southwest flight stopping in Oakland, or bought a Southwest ticket that required changing planes in Sacramento, or a USAirways ticket that required changing planes in Phoenix, or whatever. So what this datasource is trying to capture is the demand for air travel between two cities. (It has nothing to do with telling you how many people are onboard airplanes or what load factor is.)

The other widely-used data source mentioned in this thread are the T100's. They are at this link:

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables....riers&DB_Short_Name=Air%20Carriers

The T100's are all about flight segments and reported data on them like the cargo carried, passengers carried, aircraft type, etc. It is month by month. This is the best datasource to find load factor (how full aircraft were) because you can pull seats and passengers and do the math. This data is under the link T-100 Domestic Segment (US Carriers). Let's go back to the San Diego-Seattle example. This data will tell you, for a given month, how many people were onboard planes the took off from San Diego and landed nonstop in Seattle. That is NOT the same number as the total people whose total trip started in San Diego and ended in Seattle. Not everybody starting out in SAN and ending in SEA flew on nonstop flights for various reasons (cheaper fare, nonstops sold out, preferred a different flight time, airline brand preference, etc.) The flip side of the coin is not everybody sitting onboard a SAN-SEA nonstop was actually flying just from San Diedo to Seattle. They could have been flying SAN-SEA-Anchorage, or SAN-SEA-Spokane, or SAN-SEA-Tokyo, etc. Or maybe even flying from Mexico to Seattle via SAN.

So it depends on what you're looking for, whether the T100 or the DoT quarterly stats really have what you are looking for.

A final word on using the T100's. The files can easily get too large to work with, so you're best off choosing one month at a time and one state at a time. I prefer to open then with Excel, and that can only handle about 65,000 records. If you try to pull a whole year, or data for all the states in one file, the file may get too big. And finally, there is usually about a four month lag on the data, so for example you will get an empty file if you ask for OSeptember 2006 right now. I think July 2006 is the most recent out there at this time.

Why are these two different?


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2819 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 15):
Why are these two different?

Please ignore this last comment in the above message. It was a note to myself to remember to talk about why the two are different as I was composing the message, but I forgot to delete it.

It is something that should have been deleted -- not a question to the group.

On a related note, if anyone knows how to modify or edit your own item already posted, I'd love to know what happened to that function. In the past I've been able to go back and clean up a mistake like this but can't find that function anymore.


User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 16):
On a related note, if anyone knows how to modify or edit your own item already posted, I'd love to know what happened to that function. In the past I've been able to go back and clean up a mistake like this but can't find that function anymore.

You can edit once posted, but only for 30 minutes.


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