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Chaos In Brazil Airports!  
User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

I am writing this thread while I am waiting in CGH boarding room for my flight RG2457 to SDU, which was rescheduled for boarding at 23:30, almost two hours after its original schedule for departure.

Along with my delayed flight there are all the remaining flights in the country (this is not a joke, Gol informed that more than 70% of its flights were delayed and TAM and Varig did not inform a percentage of delayed flights, but the airport departures display shows that all flights here in CGH are delayed today, on average the flights are with more than two hours of delay.

You all should be asking why all the flights in a big country such as Brazil have been delayed? All I can say to you is that due to lack of investment in Air Traffic Control equipment and personnel, plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers were overloaded, working with very precarious equipment. Therefore, the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers started this week a movement like a "white strike" that is causing delays in most of the flights around the country, but the biggest delays are in BSB, CGH, GRU, GIG, SDU and CWB (this movement of the Air Traffic Controllers is vigorously denied by the Brazilian Government).

The beginning of all this was with the crash of Gol flight 1907. After the crash the Government removed 8 (eight) Air Traffic Controllers from duty in Air Traffic Control Center of Brasilia. This removal and the lack of modern air traffic control equipment caused the Air Traffic Controllers of the whole country to start working overloaded. Now, the Air Traffic Controllers are just working according to international safety standards, which set that each air traffic controller can control up to 14 aircraft at a time. There are some Air Traffic Controllers saying that in Brasilia, Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro they were controlling up to 24 aircraft at a time before the start of this "white strike".

The situation in the country's airports is chaotic, with thousands of people stranded and waiting for hours and hours for their flights, there are several flights being cancelled and as mentioned before all flights are delayed.

I really hope that this movement by the Air Traffic Controllers move Infraero (the Brazilian State owned company which is responsible for the major airports in Brazil) to stop building shopping malls such as CGH and GRU and start building real airports with well built runways, modern air traffic control equipment and enough personnel to work in the airport. Real airports is what that the country is desperately in need of.

Comments, thoughts and critics regarding this situation are very welcome.

Jose Carlos

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1339 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Jose,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Let's hope that the situation improves soon.
I had no such problems with my flights in your country last week. (GIG-GRU-ORD), everything was on time.

Aloha,
HALFA



HNL-PEK Starts April 2014
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

By some strange reason, both CM flights from GRU today departed fairly on time. I did hear that yesterday 0430h arrival was delayed (!), as if at that time there were a lot of traffic at GRU.


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1087 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7495 times:

This situation is just unacceptable!!! It's ridiculous!!!

Lack of investment!!!! Oh well, coming from Lula's government I'm not even shocked!!! Brazil deserves to be in this position.. The country doesn't even know how to pick the right candidates....... Thank god he didn't get my vote!!!


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7433 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

As you Jose i use to travel a lot in Brazil. Since last week i face several troubles and decided to stay in Sao Paulo today, just because i really know my night could be lost in an airport like CGH.

We discuss a lot about everything, the condition on some airports and now it come real with the low investment made on ATC and the very little number of ATC staff.

My opinion is very simple, they need to invest on ATC immediately, and establish again Rio and Sao Paulo ATC in order we can guarantee a contingency system able to handle all our traffic.

I'm very worried about my return flight on sunday night. Probably i will arrive CGH only by monday morning.

And due to this they authorized CGH to run operations till 1:30 AM !

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7410 times:

Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?


Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 7361 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?

They get priority because of fuel levels, but for example EZE, SCL, MVD, ASU and LIM flights are many times delayed.

Also there are cases of flights going to alternative points.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7289 times:

Oh okay that is what I was wondering. Thanks Felipe!


Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7152 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration

Jose Carlos, I know it is quite - or maybe totally  boxedin  - out of topic, but my father is a farmer back in Brazil and believe me, our president Lula da Silva is working hard to destroy not only the airports, but also other sectors of the economy. The "agro-business" is going very bad and farmers are sure that the situation will deteriorate even more.  hissyfit 

A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

For a foreigner it would seem to be the correct action. However, it does not solve their problems at all. It is only creating a mass of people who believes that governments will always help them. Our president should be investing in education and finding ways to generate more jobs. After all, one should not give fish to people, but teach them how to fish. It is far more efficient!!!

Anyway, Brazil will have to deal with a populist president during the next 4 years again.

Regards,
Claudio


User currently offlineDellatorre From Brazil, joined May 2000, 1087 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7092 times:

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 8):
A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

For a foreigner it would seem to be the correct action. However, it does not solve their problems at all. It is only creating a mass of people who believes that governments will always help them. Our president should be investing in education and finding ways to generate more jobs. After all, one should not give fish to people, but teach them how to fish. It is far more efficient!!!

Anyway, Brazil will have to deal with a populist president during the next 4 years again.

Claudio agree with you 100%, it's such a shame that Lula was reelected, but that's a price we pay for being a democracy.

As Dellatorre already said, this situation is unacceptble and the government is the only to blame. Lack of investiment is the reason behind all this, and we needed to have a tragic accident involing the ATC to trigger these problems with the ATC workers in Brazil.

Rgs,

Neo


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6979 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 8):
A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

Another 4 years of populism, severe infra-structure restrictions, and keep a very low level of growing... i pray to fly safely now, never imagine this concern and know i'm really worried.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6955 times:

Damn LULA. He didn't get my vote either. I'm flying today and tomorrow JFK-GRU-GIG-CNF. This is a joke.

My girlfriends dad was delayed 4 hours last night. Ridiculos.

Brazil is just getting worse and worse. Sometimes I feel like it deserves it.


User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6946 times:

Oh, one more thing. Just reading the news on Globo. Passengers destroy a GOL check in desk and others threaten to invade the runway in Salvador. Kind of funny  Smile but serious!

User currently offline787KQ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6904 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
You all should be asking why all the flights in a big country such as Brazil have been delayed? All I can say to you is that due to lack of investment in Air Traffic Control equipment and personnel, plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers were overloaded, working with very precarious equipment. Therefore, the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers started this week a movement like a "white strike" that is causing delays in most of the flights around the country, but the biggest delays are in BSB, CGH, GRU, GIG, SDU and CWB (this movement of the Air Traffic Controllers is vigorously denied by the Brazilian Government).

What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.


User currently offlineTonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 13):
What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.

787KQ, I agree with you that this far predates the current president. But LULA should step up in this all of a sudden crises and do something about it.


User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6870 times:

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 12):
Passengers destroy a GOL check in desk and others threaten to invade the runway in Salvador. Kind of funny but serious!

Wait, this reminds me of passengers reaction to DN over here  Smile.


User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6782 times:

Let me give you an update regarding all this fuss.

My flight RG2457 had a delay of 02:15h. The plane was packed and the boarding was in three times, first the RG2457 passengers (like me and a few others), after that passengers from a Varig flight from POA that diverted from GRU and landed in CGH, and to finish the boarding they boarded several passengers from GOL (the vast majority of passengers boarded in RG2457 were from GOL).

It passed from midnight when we pushed back from gate and it took more than 20 minutes to take off.

Upon arrival in SDU the situation was still chaotic the airport was dark with most of its lights turned off and there were no taxis, buses or other means of transport to drive passengers out of there. It took me more than 20 minutes to get a cab to drive me home.

The situation in the other airports around the country is the following:

GIG - Passengers destroyed Gol's check in counter, flights that should have departed yesterday night are still there, there are delays of more than 12 hours. It is not possible to find an employee from Infraero to get information and the police was not seen there lately. A friend of my is in GIG right now trying to get Gol flight 1906 to BSB, but Gol check in counter is closed because it was vandalized and there is no information about the estimate time for departure of Gol 1906. It will be a long day for her...

GRU - Passengers invaded TAM and Gol check in counters. 59 domestic flights and 34 international flights delayed. During today's morning no domestic flight was cleared for take off. Some flights are with more than 13 hours of delay, but you still can find food in the airport...

CGH - 9 flights canceled by Infraero, 30 flights delayed, average delay time is 2 hours. The airport is out of food due to the number of people stranded there and the bathrooms are collapsing, some are already closed, the air conditioning system is not working properly.

SSA - Passengers tried to break into the runway, the Federal Police had to intervene to control the situation. 21 flights delayed. There are more than 2000 people stranded in SSA and the some flights are with more than 10 hours of delay.

BSB - More than 30 flights delayed, average delay time of more than 6 hours (However, President Lula da Silva took only 7 minutes to board in the presidential plane and to take off to Bahia where the president and his family are going to spend the holidays). There are not enough chairs for the passengers and several are seating on the ground, the airport is out of food due to the number of people stranded there and the bathrooms collapsed, most of them were closed.

POA - 21 flights delayed, 1 flight canceled. Passengers attacked an airline employee, hitting her. The police is in the airport to control the situation.

The main problem is the lack of information, Infraero is not providing information to the airlines and the airlines are not able to inform the passengers.

Jose Carlos

p.s.: EMB195ER - I agree 100% with you, you briefly described with accurate precision what is happening in the country.


User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6747 times:

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 13):
What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.

Lula was for 4 years in office and he stopped investments in infra-structure. Before Lula took office the domestic air traffic was according to the infra-structure in place.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6734 times:

I know the roads this weekend in Brazil must be jammed by the holiday travelers, but when someone has to wait up to 6 hours (including check-in time) for a CGH-SDU or CGH-CWB, it makes you wonder why not drive or go by bus.
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6710 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 17):
Lula was for 4 years in office and he stopped investments in infra-structure. Before Lula took office the domestic air traffic was according to the infra-structure in place.

To his credit though, he did invest in a lot of social infrastructure programmes whose effects are broader in Brasilian society than those who are inconvenienced by ATC delays. Given how much I admire the subtlety of Brasilian patience, give it a few days to work things out.


User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??

There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
They get priority because of fuel levels

I don't think that a lot of priority is given to international flights. My partner was on KL798 GRU AMS last night and was delayed for more than 4 hours because the inbound flight KL797 was, for some reason, forced to land at SSA by Brazilean ATC. The delay exacerbated at GRU and they took off just around midnight. Air France flights were equally delayed, although not as much as the KLM flight.


User currently offlineKiramakora From Argentina, joined Aug 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
I know the roads this weekend in Brazil must be jammed by the holiday travelers, but when someone has to wait up to 6 hours (including check-in time) for a CGH-SDU or CGH-CWB, it makes you wonder why not drive or go by bus.
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??

Brasil has a great road network though. Actually, some of my favourite road trips are all set in Brasil - including one on my first trip when I somehow got lost and endup in Londrina. Enough said.


User currently offlineJrosa From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

It seems that we have some good news. It was announced an hour ago that the Brazilian Air Force is going to take care of the ATC. The Air Force called to duty 149 Military Air Traffic Controllers to start working as of today in order to reestablish the air traffic control in Brazil.

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 20):
There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.

You're wrong about that. There are still three passenger routes! Belo Horizonte-Vitória, São Luiz-Paraupebas and Curitiba-Paranaguá. That's it if you don't count the suburban trains in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 23):
The Air Force called to duty 149 Military Air Traffic Controllers to start working as of today in order to reestablish the air traffic control in Brazil.

Apparently they weren't called, they were drafted, since they were threatened to be arrested, if they don't show up. This government is incapable!!! They are already threatening before anything happens. The responsibles for the lack of investment should be the ones to be arrested.


25 2travel2know : In the case of CM, their GRU and soon GIG flights push the range of the B737-700, there's not that much a Brazilian Airtraffic controller could do wh
26 C010T3 : I know that and it is exactly because of the fact that ATC is on the hands of the military in Brazil, they work in such bad conditions. The military
27 Tonytifao : can anyone explain how the military is taking over or assisting with ATC?
28 2travel2know : If the Brazilian Airtraffic controllers are military, their problem should be addressed for and by the Brazilian armed forces themselves. The Brazilia
29 GECMD11 : Speaking of Cargo any delays out at VCP from this?
30 Jrosa : I understand that there is a mix of civilians and militaries working as ATC. In some places there are only civilians and in others militaries. Now th
31 Pbottenb : Back in the 1990's there was a program in Brazil called SIVAM - I cant remember what the acronym means, but I thought that that program was supposed
32 Jrosa : The acronym means "Sistema de Vigilância da Amazonia" or Amazon Surveillance System. This program was to extend ATC to the amazon region. It was put
33 ZschocheImages : First of all, sorry to hear about all of the troubles in your country. But look at the bright side of things, TAM continues to grow internationaly wit
34 Post contains images SwissBrazil : C010T3: You're wrong about that too. Brazil lost it's railroad network almost 60 yrs ago or so when US interests & Volkswagen (Deutschland) came to h
35 YULWinterSkies : Well, trust me the price to pay is not much cheaper up here with Stephen Harper or G W Bush ruining our public funds to dump billions of dollars and
36 Tonytifao : The entire problem is the brazilian corrupt culture. I'm giving up hope on such government. Corruption is going on for decades and I don't see a way o
37 C010T3 : SwissBrazil, Jrosa said that there is no passenger service just cargo and I said that there is STILL passenger service in these three routes. Jrosa,
38 787KQ : So air traffic controllers were handling the mandated amount of traffic four years ago and there's been a 71% increase in the number of flights in th
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