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Aeroflot May Lose 787 Delivery Slots  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4117 posts, RR: 90
Posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10756 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

At least according to the following report;

Aeroflot May Lose Boeing 787 Delivery Slots on Lack of Decision

By Lyubov Pronina

Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- OAO Aeroflot, eastern Europe's largest carrier, said it may lose production slots for 22 Boeing Co. 787 planes because Russia's government has yet to approve a proposed order, which may lead to higher prices and longer delivery times.

''The original conditions on the contract have expired,'' Aeroflot Deputy Chief Executive Officer Lev Koshlyakov said in a telephone interview today. ''We will now be looking for other alternatives. We remain in contact with Boeing.''

Russian billionaire Alexander Lebedev, the owner of 30 percent of Aeroflot, signed an agreement with Boeing to reserve production slots for the 787 model because the Aeroflot board hadn't confirmed an order. The reservation agreement, signed with Lebedev's National Reserve Corp. holding company on behalf of Aeroflot, expired Nov. 1.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a0s1ioE9DVuU

It just keeps going...  Smile

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10725 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
It just keeps going...

This is ridiculous..... They were having a joke phone in on the radio yesterday about headlines in 2018 :

Aeroflot to choose soon between 787 and A350!


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10516 times:

Considering the way EADS ans Russia are getting tied up with one another - they shouldn't buy any 787s. But comrade Putin will have the last word in this dispute, anyway.

User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5732 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10504 times:

Quite a few take aways from this no news news:

1) The Russian Govt hates SU - they're trully screwing with the airlines' future for the sake of politics.
2) EU - don't let the Russian govt have a decision making stake in eADS, unless you want to see it out of business within a year or two.
3) To French and German govts - see what govt interference does to your competitiveness. If you want Airbus and EADS to be a true profit machine that competes effectively in the free market, cut the umbilical cord and let EADS sink and swim on its own. Don't turn into a European jobs program or else it (EADS) will to be a pawn of the politicians and in the end EADS gets hurt.

SU order for airplanes has be come a laugh. For Boeing it's not too much of a worry. There is a lot of demand for those delivery slots that they will have no trouble filling them. SU will be the big loser out of all this. It would be nice to have a carrier like SU commit to the 787 but not at this rate.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10227 times:

Well once Russia has control of EADS a typical occurance will be:
Airline: I need the following parts for inventory.
Airbus: I won't ship until you place that order for A320's.

They are doing this game with gas often, why not on everything else.

Well, by the time SU has decided and the Russian govt concurs with placing the order the A350 will have its EIS already.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Considering the way EADS ans Russia are getting tied up with one another - they shouldn't buy any 787s. But comrade Putin will have the last word in this dispute, anyway.

There are a lot of engineers in Russia who are designing part of the B787 also...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9878 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Considering the way EADS ans Russia are getting tied up with one another - they shouldn't buy any 787s. But comrade Putin will have the last word in this dispute, anyway.

Oh lord... SU, just like any other airline, should buy what's right for them - nothing, and that's absolutely nothing, else.

But their decision process is turning into even more of a laughing number than it already had - hard to believe, but true. Then again - Lebedev simply signing for the planes though the board had not agreed was somewhat unorthodox from the get-go anyhow...

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 4):
Well once Russia has control of EADS a typical occurance will be:

...  Yeah sure ...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently onlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5732 posts, RR: 48
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 6):
Lebedev simply signing for the planes though the board had not agreed was somewhat unorthodox from the get-go anyhow...

Well he took a bet and lost. More impetus for the Russian people to vote out the idiots running the govt.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9808 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 6):
But their decision process is turning into even more of a laughing number than it already had - hard to believe, but true. Then again - Lebedev simply signing for the planes though the board had not agreed was somewhat unorthodox from the get-go anyhow...

To me, Lebedev's decision to order 787s seems like a no-brainer. That is, if SU did take them, then he gets to pawn them off on Aeroflot, knowing that he's protected his investment in that airline.

If Aeroflot didn't take them, then he could re-lease them.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
If Aeroflot didn't take them, then he could re-lease them.

Well... seems like this 'no-brainer' just backfired on him nonetheless...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineSK736 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8073 times:
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Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 4):
Well once Russia has control of EADS a typical occurance will be:
Airline: I need the following parts for inventory.
Airbus: I won't ship until you place that order for A320's.

Sounds good to me!


User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Considering the way EADS ans Russia are getting tied up with one another - they shouldn't buy any 787s. But comrade Putin will have the last word in this dispute, anyway.

Comrade Putin wants EADS. Make NO mistake about that either.  alert 



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6661 times:

I think that Boeing will be nice to SU for a brief period After that the slots can be used to generate sales of more than 22 planes so SU doesn't have that much more time left. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that Boeing has been talking with other carriers about "possible" slots being opened up.

What delivery slots does SU have tied up anyway?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12409 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5181 times:

I guess the question that comes to my mind is, why does Boeing assign production slots before all the formalities are completed, because this obviously creates a danger that the contract will fail. When Air India ordered 787s (and we know how long the Indian govt took to approve that!), no delivery slots were assigned until the govt had authorised it.

Did Aeroflot actually have specific dates for receipt of these aircraft?

Given the success of the 787, I would imagine that they will have little problem in assigning these to other carriers. Indeed, I often wonder how long it actually takes between an announcement like this "hitting the wires" and some airline CEO phoning Boeing to say "can we take those production slots?"!


User currently offlineNW727251ADV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
OAO Aeroflot, eastern Europe's largest carrier

I'm sorry. Aeroflot is considered an "Eastern European" carrier???


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 14):
I'm sorry. Aeroflot is considered an "Eastern European" carrier???

Aeroflot is based in Moscow. Moscow is in Eastern Europe. ergo, Aeroflot is Eastern European. They are, after all, west of the Urals.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

The geographic center of Europe is in Lithuania. Moscow is almost exactly due east of Vilnius. How could Moscow be anywhere other than eastern Europe? Western Eurasia???

Any thoughts on who might pick up the slots? SQ?

[Edited 2006-11-04 22:50:35]

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
I guess the question that comes to my mind is, why does Boeing assign production slots before all the formalities are completed, because this obviously creates a danger that the contract will fail. When Air India ordered 787s (and we know how long the Indian govt took to approve that!), no delivery slots were assigned until the govt had authorised it.

Good question - was this deal between Lebedev and Boeing a LoI, or had it progressed beyond that? My guess is that a LoI already includes production slots on a 'temporarily assigned' basis, so that should the contract be finalized in time, the slots the purchaser wanted will still be available; should the contract not be finalized, I'd guess that the temporarily assigned slots will simply expire and be re-assigned (perhaps even to the original buyer, should the expiry of the slot reservation be followed up quickly enough with a contract).

Just a guess...

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 14):
I'm sorry. Aeroflot is considered an "Eastern European" carrier???

What would you consider Aeroflot?



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

Quoting Leskova (Reply 17):
was this deal between Lebedev and Boeing a LoI, or had it progressed beyond that?

I don't think it got as far as a LoI. I think it was just a deposit on the slots.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 18):
I don't think it got as far as a LoI. I think it was just a deposit on the slots.

So basically depositing money for slots that would be used for payment of the contract in case it should be closed - and will now be refunded since the options expired? Somehow, I wasn't really aware that this method exists... or it just might be the fact that I'm so tired that I'll be in bed in a couple of moments...  Wink



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Weren't slots available with a refundable deposit? If so then that is where SU got the slots from and they would have been confirmed (for a period of time) with the LoI.

Makes one think about any other "reserved" slots that have not been covered with an order, or at least an LoI.


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3006 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4886 times:

Right now, Aeroflot doesn't have a say. They cannot do anything until they receive a green light from the government. So we just have to wait and see, and hopefully the Russian government will give it's approval...

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4117 posts, RR: 90
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4718 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Aeroflot have admitted that they have to start from scratch again with Boeing. Mr Lebedevs company, NRC, has received their deposit money back and the options are confirmed as totally expired. As per the following report;

"The agreement has expired, and Boeing gave us back the $40 million down payment," National Reserve Chief Executive Anatoly Danilitsky said in a telephone interview from Moscow. "Even if Aeroflot later decides to buy Boeing, it will be at higher prices and different time slots. The deal will have to be negotiated practically from scratch."

Danilitsky said that the issue of buying Boeing aircraft wasn't even brought up at Aeroflot's board meeting Oct. 25. The meeting also failed to decide on additional lease of three Boeing 767 airplanes.


[END - Fair use excerpt as per link below]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/291124_aeroflot04.html

So, will Boeing concede the slots to another carrier? If so which carrier and will the Aeroflot order remain split as has previously been reported?

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8190 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Well, if the slots have expired for SU then they have opened up for at least one other airliner. I don't know when the slots are for, but if they are good ones then there might be another airline (or more) signing an order or LoI rather soon for them.

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 22):
So, will Boeing concede the slots to another carrier? If so which carrier

Wouldn't it be ironic if this opens the door for a defection from an existing A350 customer, like US or QR?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
25 Zvezda : Given the Lebedev owns 30% of aeroflot, it's remarkable that he couldn't even get this item on the agenda for the board meeting. The slots were for d
26 Lumberton : QR, US, JJ?
27 JayinKitsap : AA, LH, BA, GECAS, EK - any number of airlines. Boeing could probably package as the first planes in two orders with 10 or 12 of each being SU's slot
28 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : It seems that according to the following report SU will now have a long wait until they can secure 787s; Fair use excerpt By Lyubov Pronina Nov. 9 (Bl
29 Lumberton : If true, there must be some very large commitments that haven't been announced yet? last I heard production of the 787 was "spoken for" through most
30 Zvezda : I also heard that very recently. I can't think where Boeing picked up 200+ B787 orders in the last month or so. I suspect what's going on is some air
31 Hjulicher : If SU does go ahead and order the B787, then can they get their old slots back as long as Boeing hasn't given them up to another carrier? I feel terri
32 Post contains links Manni : Apparently Aeroflot decided not to firm up their 787 commitment. http://www.sharewatch.com/story.php?storynumber=250791 http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?typ
33 Stitch : The Russian government wants stuff from the EU, so they're dangling the A350 order in front of them as a "carrot" as well as the 787 order as a "stic
34 Post contains images Dallasnewark : Manni, it would all depend on how much concessions they would get from the European Union, be it a financial gain, or EU closing their eyes on certai
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