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Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?  
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3734 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10753 times:

We all know that Emirates has cancelled their A340-600 order, and that EK has said that "another airline has picked up our A346 slots". Could that airline be US Airways?

After all, all the pieces of the puzzle are in place:
-US is a very loyal Airbus customer
-US needs more widebodies
-US would need longer-range widebodies for serving PHX-Europe and PHL/CLT-Asia (if they decide to go to Asia)

And the A346 fits the bill well. Despite the type's higher fuel burn compared to the B773ER, the A346 has many advantages for US, including (but not limited to) cockpit commonality with US's A333 fleet and lower fleet integration costs. Plus, Airbus will probably offer a good discount to sell these planes, as the A346 hasn't exactly been selling like hotcakes.

Your thoughts?


Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10715 times:

most unlikely in my opinion.... the A346 is too large for them in my opinion... plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision). I would see get them A332s before 346s...


300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10709 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):

A 400 passenger aircraft is probably just too big for US's strategic plans. If they were 340/300s, it would be within the realm of (slight) possibility. If US were to strike a deal with AB, it would more likely be for early delivery of some 332s.


User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10666 times:

And fly it where that would be profitable for them?

NRT, HKG, PEK...? I don't think US airways has rights to fly there.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10658 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision).

No US airlines fly the A346, and it's cabin width is the same as the A330 family, so why would it's reputation amongst US travellers be top of US airways list of why not to get the A346?

Anyway, returning to the original question, this isn't going to happen:

1) It is strongly rumoured (on A.net) that some of the A346's will go to the Leasing Company EK has set up in Dubai. If that isn't the case, then Virgin Blue has been a rumored, followed by Qatar, but until Airbus lets us know who as taken over some of these slots, we won't fully know.
2) US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery which will fit what they need fine. PHX isn't being looked at for Europe flights for a while, again according to A.net sources, but that could change.

Bottom line, it's too big a plane for what US airways needs, and it ain't going to happen.



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery

2009/2010


User currently offlinePilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10593 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 5):
2009/2010

Thanks, I knew it was a few yrs hence, just was too lazy to look it up  Smile



Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10573 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision).

While U.S. passengers have overwhelmingly rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics, there is nothing to suggest that American passengers dislike the A340 cabin...

EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.


User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10571 times:

If they weren't good enough for TAM, another loyal Airbus customer, then I can't see why US Airways will find them suitable, unless Airbus give them an even better deal than they must have offered TAM

User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10542 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.

SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too! 

I think between us we named them all no?

[Edited 2006-11-05 00:05:52]


Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10540 times:

I just don't see how or where the A340 would fit in US' business/network plan. I believe US is looking for more aircraft that are more economical than the A340 when it comes to PHX-Europe or PHL/CLT/PIT/PHX - Asia. (I thought I'd humor myself in throwing PIT in there. We can dream, can't we?)


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10487 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.
SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too! 

I think between us we named them all no?

Don't forget JM, EY, RJ, OA, TK, SA and I would guess there is more to the list.


User currently offlineOnedude From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

There is also a *rumour* that Virgin Blue could select the A346 if delivery slots are now available that weren't previously, for their trans-pacific runs.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10419 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
US needs more widebodies

US does not need more widebodies, at least not of the capacity of the 346 nor of its range.

Quoting Vega (Reply 5):
Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery

2009/2010

The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10418 times:

I presume that these aircraft are not yet built, if so then they are just delvery positions. Could airbus just build them as A330s rather than A340s?

I relaise that they would have to make other arrangements for the engines and also that they have would a few extra frames to deal with.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10353 times:

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 3):
NRT, HKG, PEK...? I don't think US airways has rights to fly there.

Technically NRT and PEK no. NRT has no slots and PEK needs govt approval. I beleive they can fly to HKG anytime with just basic approval. They can fly to ICN, NGO, CTS, KIX, HKG, PUS, MNL, SIN, BKK and a few others if they wanted to. I believe with the A332 they would be restricted to Japan and maybe Korea. They need a plane with legs to go further and they have no 5th freedom rights. This is where the A350 would come in nicely. It could be deployed on Pacific or Atlantic routes.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10345 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10328 times:

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
Bottom line, it's too big a plane for what US airways needs, and it ain't going to happen.

I know for a fact that the gates at PHL are not certified for A346, so they'd have to park at the deicing stand anyways.

LH flew a 346 to PHL as a sub for the 343 one time this past year and that's what they had to do.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4941 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10303 times:

Quoting Onedude (Reply 12):
There is also a *rumour* that Virgin Blue could select the A346 if delivery slots are now available that weren't previously, for their trans-pacific runs.

Just looking at the comparative operating abilities of the A340-600 and the 777-300ER . One of Widebody’s tables shows a hypothetical 6000nm mission. See http://theaviationspecialist.com/350-550_mission_table.gif
The 300ER has a payload advantage of about 5650lb with a fuel burn of more than 5% less. It is not too hard to figure the comparative fuel costs of the two types from the data in the table.
A search of the web gives the price of fuel at about $US1.77 a USG right now. If you extrapolate this at a daily utilisation of 15 hours per day over 10 years the difference in fuel cost between the two types is very significant.
It would be my view that Toll ( the major stock holder in DJ) could generate premium freight revenue probably in excess of economy class passenger rates per pound/kilo. Thus they could chase yield by setting up the type at about 280 to 300 passengers. Consolidators are quoting typically about $US1200 to carry a 205lb of passenger and baggage round trip LAX-SYD. That works out at about $US3.00 per pound one way. Seems to me Express airfreight is in the order of $50.00 per a one pound parcel. Quite a spread!


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10303 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBoeingFever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10303 times:

None of the destinations make sense... No profit in them for US.

HKG is a BIG maybe/if.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 15):
This is where the A350 would come in nicely. It could be deployed on Pacific or Atlantic routes.

Yeah in around 2014 or so.



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10279 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 19):
Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org

Suggest you carefully review the US Airways 2005 Annual Report filed with the SEC in early 2006. Your assertion is incorrect.


User currently offlineDalavia From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10253 times:

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 11):
Don't forget JM, EY, RJ, OA, TK, SA and I would guess there is more to the list.

Also, CX fly the 346 from HKG to JFK.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 19):
Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org

Suggest you carefully review the US Airways 2005 Annual Report filed with the SEC in early 2006. Your assertion is incorrect.

aerotransport.org is updated regularly. The US annual report is dated. I will follow the most up-to-date source.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineWalter747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1440 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

i wish they would fly the 346.

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 17):
know for a fact that the gates at PHL are not certified for A346, so they'd have to park at the deicing stand anyways.

they can fix that.


US could use it from PHX- Europe or even PHL, CLT, or PHX- asia or even australia.



Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
25 Post contains images A330323X : That's why they provide inaccurate fleet numbers (some wildly so) for US's current fleet, and claim that US is still responsible for 727s and F100s t
26 Gigneil : I assure you, the plane has no reputation amongst US travellers of any kind one way or the other. While I agree on the latter, we disagree on the for
27 Walter747 : who is gonna care what plane they are on. (besides people like this community) if you ask a cousin sister dad the difference between the 744 and the
28 CactusHP : But i'm sure those same people would care which aircraft is more comfortable for the passenger. That would play a role in US decision making process.
29 MEACEDAR : Doubt it, but you maybe right. I think it might be BA because they were wanting to change some of their widebodies.
30 Gigneil : Either the A340-600 or 777-300ER are the most comfortable aircraft in the sky today. NS
31 Whappeh : I wish, but I don't see this happening. I think the A346 would look hot in the new US colours.
32 PM : ?! In what possible sense have passengers rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics? It's airlines who buy planes, not passengers.
33 ZKNBX : I agree. Too large for US Airways. I think you mean, US operators have overwhelming rejected, and nothing to suggest that American passengers dislike
34 Walter747 : thats true but its the way the airline or in this case US, how they decided to fill the aircraft with.
35 JAAlbert : I've not heard that the 340 has a bad reputation among US travelers. Heck, I don't think we even get to fly them enough to have much of an opinion on
36 LACA773 : The only complaint I've ever heard from a few friends who have flown on VS's 346 from LAX-LHR is the damn thing takes forever to rotate and they notic
37 BSU747 : If US were to get the A346 and operate them out of PHX how would they fare in the summer months at PHX on take off with the time it takes for an A346
38 Post contains images Gilesdavies : With the lack on A330's in the market the only sensible aircraft for US Airways to use on new long haul routes should they choose to go down that rout
39 B707Stu : IB twice daily to JFK and other places!
40 Jfk777 : The A340-600 is TOO BIG fro USairways. They also don't have Rolls Trent engines in the fleet do they would be intoducing a new engine type too. Where
41 Walter747 : asia and oceiania and europe
42 PADSpot : Ehmm. This statement does not imply that someone else has actually ORDERED new airplanes. It could just mean that existing A346 customers could just
43 Mk777 : is US going to enter Indian cities. I think PHL-DEL/BOM would do quite well, but do they really need an A346 for that? It would be nice to see another
44 Gigneil : I'll go ahead and say it: those range charts for PHX and PHL are overly aggressive. An A340-300 would not comfortably fly PHX-SYD or a lot of those As
45 RootsAir : TAM is already going for the 777-300 ER a direct competitor to the A346. Hence knowing TAM's strategic planes they would not go for both types.
46 Cessna057 : CX HKG-JFK
47 Carpethead : Are any of US's hubs capable of handling the length of the A346? Gates and taxiways need to be compatible more than anything else.
48 Walter747 : PHX maybe or CLT. PHL could probably accomadate it. Well i hope they get them. love to the the 346 in us c/s
49 Post contains images Steeler83 : PIT has the facilities, but it's no longer a hub...
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