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UA DEN-NRT Is Likely To Be Launched  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10884 times:

During the inaguration of UNITED's Washington - Tokyo nonstop press conference held on 26OCT, UNITED's executive managements briefly mentioned some of the plans in Japan:

*Looking forward to increase Business and leisure travellers on IAD-NRT
*With additional nonstop flights to Asia, Feeding route out of NRT to Seoul and Taipei is being reviewed
*Insist the importance of NRT hub despite launch and resurrect nonstop Asian routes outside Japan, due to importance of ANA^
*Denver (- Tokyo) nonstop flight has high possibility, but depends on aircrafts
*New F/C class seat rolls out in 2007

Excerpt from 27OCT06 Wings Daily in Japanese

Quote:
UAL、ワシントンDC就航はハブ強化の一環
 シュワブ副社長、ビジネス・レジャー両面に期待
 直行便開設で仁川・台北フィーダー路線を再検討
 成田ハブ堅持、ANAの重要性示す
 デンバー直行便「可能性高い」も機材がネック
 FCクラスの新座席、来年から導入

^additional details was explained in Travelvision. Despite UNITED now have nonstop flights to Shanghai and Beijing, ANA offers 2ndary cities to China out of Tokyo like Tianjin, Xiamen, Hangzhou...where UNITED is unlikely to serve and using Air China or Shanghai Airlines sometimes may not be the quickest option.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10871 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
*Denver (- Tokyo) nonstop flight has high possibility, but depends on aircrafts

I would fully expect this to be a 787 route (or A350, I guess, depends on the tides).

I don't think they have enough 777s right now to do this.

NS


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10859 times:
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Good for them, if they do. It would make Denver International Airport very, very happy.

They've been pushing for this for years.

 Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10818 times:

Finally... this has been an opportunity for some time now.. Do UA T7s have the range DEN-NRT? I think they do...

User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 943 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10807 times:

I hope this flight will happen so it will be a good replacement for the long lost KE flights to Asia that happened once upon a time a long time ago.

User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10783 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
I don't think they have enough 777s right now to do this.

One could suggest that UA's SEA - NRT is an endangered species ... although UA seems to have built a successful non-hub niche there.

But hey, you coulda said the same about UA's JFK - NRT as well eh?

And yes, once upon a time the same 3 class 777 used from SEA - NRT originated / continued onto DEN.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10554 times:

I've heard rumors of several routes that could be launched. DEN-NRT was one and the other ORD-NGO (Not too confident about that one.)

How many 777s does UA have available?



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineMymiles2go From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10312 times:

Until they ax a different route it's not going to happen. Simple aircraft availability issues.

User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2829 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10282 times:

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 7):
Until they ax a different route it's not going to happen. Simple aircraft availability issues.

Remember that UA has some metal in the desert as well.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10283 times:
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Denver to Tokyo sounds great to talk about but how many people travel from Colorado to Japan ? Not many. Seems there are better uses for the 777 diverted from another UA route.

User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2829 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 5):

One could suggest that UA's SEA - NRT is an endangered species ... although UA seems to have built a successful non-hub niche there.

UA would be stupid to touch a route that is profitable for them internationally right now.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Denver to Tokyo sounds great to talk about but how many people travel from Colorado to Japan ? Not many. Seems there are better uses for the 777 diverted from another UA route.

Gee. It's not like Denver is one of the top five hubs in the USA, it's not like there is a sizable japanese community in DEn, it's not like F9 is making a fortune building the international route system that UA decided not to build here, and it's not like there is a very large technology, telecom and startup corridor here that attracts lot of international traffic. It's also not that DEN is UA's primary transit hub and their most efficient hub.

UA made the choice a while agao that they were going to focus on DEN just being transit internal to the US (which makes a lot of sense given that it has just about the perfect location for a national hub) and preserve international at JFK, SFO, and ORD only. Given that international routes are now the only routes that are really making money for the legacies, and how well BA has done (without any alliance traffic) and LH has done (with alliance traffic) UA (correctly, imho) realizes that if they don't launch DEN-NRT, ANA or JAL will.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31421 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10235 times:
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Quoting SFORunner (Reply 5):
One could suggest that UA's SEA - NRT is an endangered species ... although UA seems to have built a successful non-hub niche there.

Yup. The station folks I chat with note Business and First do pretty well in terms of paid pax (though volume remains in the middle) and during the baseball season, the Japanese tour groups sell out the back.

DEN-SEA-NRT-SEA-DEN makes more sense to me from an aircraft utilization angle. I imagine DEN traffic also supports the SFO-NRT flights in addition to SEA-NRT, so launching a DEN non-stop could cause one or more of the SFO-NRT 744s to down-gauge to a 777 in addition to pulling the SEA-NRT run. It's easy enough to "back-track" to DEN from SEA, but I'd miss the fantastic crews on UA875 and UA876 and would probably push my business to NW since I can fly direct on the A330 (instead of a 744 via SFO) and just credit to my AS account (MVPG even faster!).


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10202 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
*Denver (- Tokyo) nonstop flight has high possibility, but depends on aircrafts

Only how many years since Denver built the 16,000 foot runway?

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
I don't think they have enough 777s right now to do this.

They do if they make shrewd aircraft moves.

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 3):
Do UA T7s have the range DEN-NRT? I think they do...

They didn't until the 16,000 foot runway was built at DEN.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 8):
Remember that UA has some metal in the desert as well.

Not really anymore.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7365 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10180 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

They do if they make shrewd aircraft moves.

...or get a few 787 frames.  Wink

Right now, this route sounds like a pipe dream, they don't wanna fly JFK, and they have IAD, SFO, LAX, and SEA.  confused 

I''ve yet to see any numbers to warrant a flight to Japan from DEN. Please advise!  yes 


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting FXramper (Reply 13):
Right now, this route sounds like a pipe dream, they don't wanna fly JFK, and they have IAD, SFO, LAX, and SEA.

You left out ORD. United's dropping of JFK-NRT had more to do with the fact that their dropping of JFK-LHR meant that they would essentially have to dedicate 2 777s to the station that wasn't getting anything going the other way to increase utilization and efficiency and keeping a hub from having a flight to their strongest international station. DEN, on the other hand, is a United hub that allows them massive amounts of connecting feed as well as pretty strong and high yielding O&D. Remember that domestically, DEN is much stronger for UA than SFO or LAX, meaning that they can gear up connecting chances out of the airport.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7365 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9963 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
DEN is much stronger for UA than SFO or LAX

Would love to see it work for them!  yes 

Bring on the 787s.


User currently offlineBriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9898 times:

The current SEA flight aircraft is routed NRT-SEA-DEN-ORD-SEA-NRT. This route is very profitable and will remain with UA for the time being. DEN-NRT would be a great way to feed all the midwest and eastcoast traffic through DEN onto NRT.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Only how many years since Denver built the 16,000 foot runway?

Heh, 2?

NS


User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9742 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Denver to Tokyo sounds great to talk about but how many people travel from Colorado to Japan ? Not many. Seems there are better uses for the 777 diverted from another UA route.

Agreed. Maybe a MCO-NRT because MCO does have a descent amount of Asian population. Usually people who want to go to NRT are connected in LAX. This might not be a daily flight maybe 3x per week. Can a UA 777 do that route, maybe?


User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9388 times:

I'd love to see MCO-NRT happen, unfortunately, however, its in all likelihood wishful thinking...anyone who has been to MCO at the United counter at 7 in the morning for the SFO/LAX flights knows the loads are there (hundreds of Japanese tourists returning to good ole Nippon), but im skeptical that such a route would yield the amount of cashmoney that would warrant UA launching a nonstop, especially given their lack of aircraft and the lack of any meaningful connections whatsoever on the Otown end.

As for DEN-NRT, where would the slot come from? the theoretical discontinuation of SEA-NRT?



12 months:pvg hkg bkk doh mxp nce zrh iah lhr gva iad clt lax nrt sin mnl ceb del jai gay vns szx zuh mfm icn can
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9387 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
DEN, on the other hand, is a United hub that allows them massive amounts of connecting feed as well as pretty strong and high yielding O&D. Remember that domestically, DEN is much stronger for UA than SFO or LAX, meaning that they can gear up connecting chances out of the airport.

UA doing a DEN-NRT flight makes much more sense than DL doing a SLC-CDG flight, at least on paper. I'll make a few comparisons;
-DEN has nearly double the number of O&D passengers that SLC has, as well as being nearly double in population in catchment area served.
-DEN has more mainline flights on UA to markets beyond and further east...greater connectivity numbers. Despite DL's claims they are a bigger hub at SLC (more CRJ's?)
-DEN has been MUCH more willing to spend the capitol on their airport, adding a lengthy 16,000' runway, whereas SLC has done NOTHING with their airport but fire a recently hired airport director who told the truth.
Now that they are past BK, UA should start to look at utilizing their DEN hub in an aggressive way since it offers the most growth potential both domestically and internationally for them.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineJumboBumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9165 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 10):
Given that international routes are now the only routes that are really making money for the legacies, and how well BA has done (without any alliance traffic) and LH has done (with alliance traffic) UA (correctly, imho) realizes that if they don't launch DEN-NRT, ANA or JAL will.

I believe that ANA has already expressed interest in opening DEN as well as YUL when they take deliveries of their 787s. IMHO, UA's move (edit:would) seem to make sense as they could complement an ANA DEN-NRT flight with more capacity seasonally, as UA did (does?) with FRA and LH.

[Edited 2006-11-05 20:34:59]

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9122 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 20):
UA doing a DEN-NRT flight makes much more sense than DL doing a SLC-CDG flight, at least on paper

Depends on the paper.

CDG provides FAR more onward connections and, generally, Americans travel more to Europe and v.v. than Asia. Paris has more business ties to the US.

I don't believe SLC, the market itself, to be of any value. But all of the connections from SLC tied with the connections from CDG may be enough to power such a flight.

That's all in theory. I believe in execution DEN-NRT will be more successful than SLC-CDG will be.

NS


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9019 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
I don't believe SLC, the market itself, to be of any value. But all of the connections from SLC tied with the connections from CDG may be enough to power such a flight.

The value of SLC compared to say DEN and PHX isn't that great, even though it is likewise growing substantially making it better than one of the "rust-belt" or "Once upon a time" hubs like PIT. The connectivity point is to be taken well however. SLC is best served internationally by ORIGINATING a flight to Europe; CDG, LGW, FRA, from JFK than flying directly from SLC. Same with Asia through LAX, originate the flight @SLC then make the bigger money stop in LAX. Some have suggested that DEN is better served by being similarly doubled with SEA. DEN is large enough to stand alone now in such a venture should UA wish to try it is my point, with SLC not quite having the numbers to do it.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineWingnutMN From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

Playing devil's advocate here, but what if NW went into Denver and placed one of their first 787's on a DEN-NRT route to spite UA. UA doesn't really have any assets to put on the route, and NW will be the US launch customer for the 787's. How much would that suck for UA!

WingnutMN



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
25 Kiwiandrew : ... and in your opinion NW finances are such that they could afford to operate a route purely to spite a competitor whether they make money or not ?
26 Supa7E7 : Sigh. DEN-NRT for NW would be pretty weak. DEN-NRT for United however would be similar to MSP-NRT on NW. This is a strong, proven concept to say the
27 Manny : UA treats DEN like the bast**d child of all UA hubs. I doubt it happens, but if it does it would be successful. LH flies into DEN with a B744 for most
28 DC10extender : I think that Denver is in need of more International routes with UA. They have the least of all the UA hubs without a doubt.
29 RwSEA : There's no doubt that DEN could fill many more International flights given the large UA hub there. Problem is that most of this would be low yield tr
30 DIA : I've been saying it for years. IF UA doesn't start this route...I'd imagine somebody else will...namely ANA (they'd pull Star Alliance pax)...just lik
31 Carpethead : They could easily do another daily or two of US mainland to NRT routes/frequency. NRT-ICN is flown twice daily with the NRT-ICN route flown by two 77
32 United_Fan : I noticed that IAD now has NH & UA doing flights to NRT. Is there really enough to fill a NH773 and a UA 772 daily ? I think DEN-NRT would work if the
33 UnitedNRT : Yes there is through synergies of the IAD hub and the NRT hub.
34 OA412 : Not to go OT here but the problems ran far, far deeper than that. From what I have been told from those with personal experience in the matter, there
35 B6sea : I couldn't see the SEA-NRT route being canceled. It's too much of a cash cow for UA right now. Getting rid of this route would not only piss off local
36 Christao17 : Considering that UA just went to the effort of opening up (actually, re-opening) regional flight attendant bases in SIN and BKK, I doubt they'd drop
37 AirFrnt : One last thing to remember is that UA has made a number of agreements with the city of Denver re boosting the number of passengers in Denver in excha
38 Mav75 : One thing I don't understand is that people don't seem to be mentioning the possibility of using 744's out of DEN for NRT, especially if 777's are as
39 SkyWest700 : I agree with the use of the 744's. If i remember correctly UA still has atleast one in the desert they can bring back into service. Denver has a high
40 Post contains images United777atGU : You think DEN is bad. Come to IAD, buddy. Then you'll have something to complain about. At least UA has said that DEN is for domestic only. We're the
41 Manny : Where did UA say that DEN is domestic only ? Any links. If thats the case, why are they thinking about DEN-NRT ? I dunno how you can say IAD is worse
42 Baw716 : If UA were to pull down SEA-NRT, it would have implications for UA far beyond SEA itself. Aside from losing a valuable international route, UA's prese
43 Gigneil : Glenn Tilton would produce 2 shiny new 777s directly from his ass and they'd be on DEN-NRT the next day. NS
44 United777atGU : Maybe I should rephrase that comment: UA focuses on domestic, on connecting passengers, not on domestic. I should edit that comment, 'eh? I don't kno
45 MCOGVADCA : IAD will always have trouble attracting domestic east coast feed from UA b/c it is too freakin far away from DC.. only a handful of suburbs past fairf
46 DL Widget Head : I hope a member of UA's SR Management did not use the word aircrafts. The plural of aircraft is aircraft. Anyway, I think DEN-NRT could work for UA w
47 Post contains images Nosedive : Yeah sleep, good idea
48 Post contains images UAL777UK : Brilliant!
49 AirFrnt : UA seem to really be trying to move away from the 744 on routes. The 777 is a much safer choice. In addition, AFAIK, yes the 777 can make the Asian r
50 OOer : I dont believe UA has ever had a nonstop DEN-FRA...LH does...and from what I hear its doing pretty dang good!
51 OA412 : Actually UA did fly DEN-FRA for either one or 2 summer seasons with the 777 a few years ago. The flight was announced almost concurrently with LH's b
52 AirFrnt : Check again. They did. LH did much better.
53 UAL777UK : If UA does go for international longhaul out of DEN, I believe theres more chance they will open up DEN-LHR, when open skies are agreed.
54 AirFrnt : BA has a pretty good toe-hold on that route until openskies, and maybe after. Note that the BA route is pretty much O&D only, since there is no allia
55 Manny : It must have been before i moved to Denver, which was 4 years ago. F9 does not fly Tranatlantic or Transpacific. So its not a factor in UA's decision
56 AADC10 : I wonder if this means that DEN-NRT is more likely if UA does not get IAD-PEK. DEN-NRT would probably use a 772 from an existing flight that would be
57 Post contains images United777atGU : I can't stop laughing!!!!
58 United777atGU : I dunno. I'd think people would pay for the convenience of the non-stop flight not served by DCA, but served by UA @ IAD. They'd just have to deal wi
59 UA772IAD : Doesn't UA fly to Mexico and Canada from DEN? True, but DCA is plagued by its perimiter rule. While IAD isn't nearly as convenient, people come from
60 United_fan : Yep,Ted does DEN-Pueto Valarta & Los Cabos Mexico and Calgary,Van Couver ,Edmonton & Winnipeg are served by a mix of Skyest & mainline.
61 SkyWest700 : Yeah TED flies all over Mexico and United has many, don't know the number, Canadian flights including canadian flights flown by United Express. I don
62 N1120A : Orlando's Asian population isn't near enough to propel a daily flight to Japan Not even close. I am tired of doing other people's research for them.
63 RwSEA : No, I'm saying that the cities with potentially the highest yield connecting traffic already have plenty of other international options.
64 Gigneil : Well, it is. Even an infinite runway would not get a United 777 up at DEN's altitude with full payload. Tire speed. Its a bitch. NS
65 AirFrnt : Not to Canada, but there is a few Mexican routes. The Canadian routes are all AC. Gigneil, not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but the
66 DIA77 : Actually, just Toronto and Montreal are operated by AC. Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg and Edmonton are all United or United Express routes. United als
67 DIA77 : Gigneil is referring to limitations of the 777 itself, not the runway. I believe the 777 has a max tire speed of around ~220 knots (correct me if I'm
68 Manny : No I am not. This thread is about DEN-NRT, so we are all talking about UA's international flights. UA does not fly even a single nonstop transatlanti
69 Gigneil : Landing is no issue for even the 12k ft runways. Specifically United's 777s, too. They just will not go out without restriction to Tokyo. It will not
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