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Air Paradise To Be Resurrected Out Of DPS  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Air Paradise International will resume operation in December 2006 after new funds injected and operated by new management team.

The new chairman visited Japan for a brief presentation to ministry of Transport. It also reached ground-handling deal with JAL.

The resurrected carrier will be flying to Australia, Korea, Taiwan, Japan as before, but also adding China, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka as well as Middle east in the future.

Starting December 2006, it'll launch domestic service between Denpasar, Surabaya, Jakarta.

Fleet will be 737 and 767 only.

It will plan to operate charter service into Tokyo Haneda once Osaka Kansai Airport's schedule flight is launched.

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

As with so many announced project in Indonesia, let's wait and see whether all of these big planes are actually going to take effect. Quite obviously, with Garuda's imminent departure from the Denpasar tourist market, there is some gap left to be filled, but I have my serious doubts whether that gap will be large enough to sustain the kind of operation as described above.

User currently offlineW3ndytj4n From Indonesia, joined Feb 2006, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Good News for Bali. This will make the tourist more convinient on their way to Bali, as there is a direct flight from some of their home country.

w3ndy



Wendy Tjan
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4912 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Excellent news. Hope Air Paradise nice colour scheme as what was used on the A310s will also be used. Would be nice to see Air Paradise in AKL

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting W3ndytj4n (Reply 2):
Good News for Bali. This will make the tourist more convinient on their way to Bali, as there is a direct flight from some of their home country.



Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Excellent news. Hope Air Paradise nice colour scheme as what was used on the A310s will also be used. Would be nice to see Air Paradise in AKL

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but with the current market conditions, I give this startup very little chance of success. It's all good and well that some more tourists are again considering Bali as their holiday destination, but that doesn't make such routes viable. There is virtually no premium traffic to Denpasar, and the best an airline can hope for is to sell a kind of 'comfort class' to those tourists who are willing to spend a little more but not pay for CX or SQ. Economy traffic is mostly package based and at rock bottom fares. Even the yields to Japan, a destination where airlines traditionally tend to do a bit better, are nothing short of abysmal!

If you were to see the financial data of some of the routes to and from Bali, you would be thoroughly susprised! Garuda does not currently operate a single profitable international route at DPS (not even Tokyo!), and the likes of CX and even SQ are not faring any better. Many airlines operating into DPS just keep the route in their schedules as a service to their passenger and because of the potential beneficial effect on other routes in their system, but the DPS-XXX routes are mostly in the red, as it goes.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 3):
Excellent news. Hope Air Paradise nice colour scheme as what was used on the A310s will also be used. Would be nice to see Air Paradise in AKL

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but with the current market conditions, I give this startup very little chance of success. It's all good and well that some more tourists are again considering Bali as their holiday destination, but that doesn't make such routes viable. There is virtually no premium traffic to Denpasar, and the best an airline can hope for is to sell a kind of 'comfort class' to those tourists who are willing to spend a little more but not pay for CX or SQ. Economy traffic is mostly package based and at rock bottom fares. Even the yields to Japan, a destination where airlines traditionally tend to do a bit better, are nothing short of abysmal!

You totally miss the point. Hotel operators in Bali will subsidize fares to get pax there. It's all about total package price. If the price is right, they will come !!!

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Air Paradise International will resume operation in December 2006 after new funds injected and operated by new management team.

The new chairman visited Japan for a brief presentation to ministry of Transport. It also reached ground-handling deal with JAL.

The resurrected carrier will be flying to Australia, Korea, Taiwan, Japan as before, but also adding China, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka as well as Middle east in the future.

Starting December 2006, it'll launch domestic service between Denpasar, Surabaya, Jakarta.

Fleet will be 737 and 767 only.

It will plan to operate charter service into Tokyo Haneda once Osaka Kansai Airport's schedule flight is launched.

Fantastic news !!!

Any idea what model 737's & 767's they'll be using?

Hope they'll be flying DPS/BNE/AKL.

Do you have a contact at the new Air Paradise? We'd actually like to charter one of these aircraft (& actually provide direct feed to a scheduled service) depending on the type of a/c that is & of course cost, but they should have got their unit cost way down !!!


User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1870 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4762 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Fleet will be 737 and 767 only.

I heard only that they would lease two Boeing 737-400 - nothing about a B767.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 5):
You totally miss the point. Hotel operators in Bali will subsidize fares to get pax there. It's all about total package price. If the price is right, they will come !!!

Coming from someone who has only been here for a couple of days, I find that a somewhat over the top remark. If you were to have access to the financial details of DPS longhaul flights - even the ones subsidized by hotel operators - you would know that the yields are simply not there. That is why Qantas mainline left, that is why Garuda is about to go, and that is why so many others left before. Again, Garuda currently does not operate a single profitable longhaul route out of DPS, despite subsidies through packages and the like from destinations in Japan, South Korea and Australia. Operating an airline is not the same thing as organizing a tour package, I'm afraid.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
Operating an airline is not the same thing as organizing a tour package, I'm afraid.

Again, the package price is ALL important !!! Empty hotels are no good fro anyone. Bali needs to have very sharp package prices to get Australians travelling there again.

You can make a loss on the air, if you can make it up on the accommodation, etc.

Hotels are better off breaking even, than showing a loss due to empty rooms & one thing they have got in Bali is a huge source of very cheap labour !!!


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3322 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4554 times:

Is Australia1 the same person as Simplicity? Very similar lines of arguments?? LOL

Australia1, I think you will find that even though the major shareholder of AD is the same person that has MANY business interests in Bali (you should know who I'm talking about), that even if they were giving it away for nothing, it would not be enough to make the operation profitable.

Even if GA suspend, I think even JQ will have a problem filling a 303 seat A330 twice weekly from MEL and SYD.


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Quoting Viasa (Reply 6):
I heard only that they would lease two Boeing 737-400 - nothing about a B767.

Doubted a 737-400 can make it nonstop to Osaka when it's set to be launched right after domestic resurrection.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 10):
Doubted a 737-400 can make it nonstop to Osaka when it's set to be launched right after domestic resurrection

Those two frames are likely to be used for the domestic services between Denpasar, Surabaya and Jakarta the resurrected airline plans to start with. Even these startup plans are rather risky as loads to and from DPS are really dipping between Mondays and Thursdays and do not show the kind of stability to sustain a continued profitable operation.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

Air Paradise International will resume operation in December 2006 after new funds injected and operated by new management team.

The new chairman visited Japan for a brief presentation to ministry of Transport. It also reached ground-handling deal with JAL.

The resurrected carrier will be flying to Australia, Korea, Taiwan, Japan as before, but also adding China, Thailand, India, Sri Lanka as well as Middle east in the future.

Starting December 2006, it'll launch domestic service between Denpasar, Surabaya, Jakarta.

Fleet will be 737 and 767 only.

Don't think anyone has asked ...

What's your source? Doesn't seem tobe anything about Air Paradise in the media or on the old Air Paradise website ???


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

The 767 or 737, the best aircraft such as 763 or 737NG are pretty much non-existent on the second hand market and even then they command a good price. Even A300-600s and A310s are hard to find as FedEx keeps on grabbing those that are available.
Therefore, are they going to get some of the older 762s parked in the desert. Sounds like a repeat recipe for disaster as others previously have mentioned.


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 4):
There is virtually no premium traffic to Denpasar,

HBIWC... you are right and wrong. Lots of people with plenty of $$ fly to Bali., to stay at premium resorts - But they tend to do it as a short hop from Sing, KUL, BKK or HKG and don't see it as a premium cabin option in the same way they do a longer flight. This - as you say - is Air Paradise's problem - although if they replace Garuda entirely, it is possible they could position themselves for a higher yield than before. The 763 would be a better fit than the A313 and AB6... and speaking from down under (I don't know if you've tried to book a seat from AKL to DPS lately, but fares have gone through the roof (my flight this month cost $2200) compared to before ($1400). Significant fare increase since Air NZ pulled out of Sing, and GA pulled out of AKL. QF and SQ flights ar very full... so there is demand. Especially if - this time - Air Paradise can hub through Bali, offering Australasian passengers a stop of on the way to other destinations.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 14):
HBIWC... you are right and wrong

I hear you, but the problem for airlines like Garuda and Air Paradise is that they have little or no feed to support flights between, say Auckland and Bali. And there is no way that Garuda is going to be able to fill even a twice weekly service between the 2 cities year round. SQ and QF, on the other hand, have large networks which can feed into their Bali operations. This in turn allows those airlines to operate with higher frequency, which in turn commands a higher price.


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

But there are no seats... and that is also pushing the price up. Since NZ pulled Sing, and since GA pulled AKL, the air fare has gone from an average of about $1400 to over $2200 for November. That is a shocking increase. To be fair, SQ were caught out, and are short of a/c and have been unable to increase capacity out of AKL, while QF have picked up much of the shifted GA bookings that GA can't take, on their flights from SYD and MEL. All up it is a messy situation. The arilines are making hay, while we are paying through the nose to get to Bali.

User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 16):
But there are no seats... and that is also pushing the price up. Since NZ pulled Sing, and since GA pulled AKL, the air fare has gone from an average of about $1400 to over $2200 for November. That is a shocking increase. To be fair, SQ were caught out, and are short of a/c and have been unable to increase capacity out of AKL, while QF have picked up much of the shifted GA bookings that GA can't take, on their flights from SYD and MEL. All up it is a messy situation. The arilines are making hay, while we are paying through the nose to get to Bali.

What's happening with BNE/DPS? Are GA pulling off that route?

If not, then surely a cheaper option would be AKL/BNE/DPS?


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