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Reno Air Restart  
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1317 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4768 times:

Hi guys,

I am travelling to Reno in the near future and it seems that Reno Tahoe Airport seems quite underserved! The only really choice from Germany to Reno is Lufthansa/United (via SFO) with hours to wait in DEN or DL via ATL (the best schedule but Delta?) I'll checked the schedule to/from RNO and since AA took over QQ (Reno Air) the nonstop Destinations are disappearing!
No more TWA (cause of AA), no more Northwest !

Is Jetblue interested in Reno at all?
Or should they just establish a new carrier for RENO?


Fly easyJet
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4705 times:

Highly unlikely we'll ever see a Reno Air MkII. Not impossible (nothing in this business is impossible). Just not likely.

Despite AA's reputation of gobbling up airlines and then shuttering down most traces of them, QQ likely would've gone out of business on its own anyway. Had they survived up to September 11, 2001 they'd be out of business on Sept 12-joining Midway, Vanguard, and National.

Frankly, I'm surprised that QQ lasted as long as they did. QQ seemed to be a lot like todays Pan Am: constantly jumping in and out of random cities, oddball routes (my favorite Black Sheep QQ route was the "Gulf Coast Flyer"......I mean seriously...who hatched THAT route?), and 4 "hubs". And let us not forget that QQ was, for all intents and purposes, Midway #1 restarted in disguise out west, as all of the senior management, most of the initial employees, equipment, and so forth all came from the defunct Midway #1.

With Southwest being the dominant carrier at RNO, it's probably fair to say that the service at that airport is currently as good as it's going to get.


Oh and lastly:

I flew QQ several times when they were around and their aircraft and service were fantastic. They simply, like almost every other startup, didn't have much of a vision or viable business plan.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

In many ways, Reno is already over served based on its population base which sits at only 350,000 in the metropolitan statistical area. If not for the gambling and mountain resort activities the city should have significantly less service then it does today.

RNO's previous traffic boom was rather artificial and much like other small communities such as Colorado Springs which have seen a local based airline come and go.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
didn't have much of a vision or viable business plan.

Actually, QQ's business plan was successful right to the end. The original business plan was to sell Reno Air to a larger carrier within five years. It took them seven, but hey, who's counting.

It's hard to say what would've happened to Reno Air post 9/11. They may have faired better than other start-ups because the tourism traffic to RNO and LAS, two of their hubs, never fell like people predicted after the terrorist attacks. Those two markets have remained stable ever since. On the other hand, the hub in SJC may have faired worse with the dot-com bust.

Reno itself has actually seen an increase in service in the past few years (still far below when QQ was there). DL started non-stop service to ATL, a former QQ route. It's interesting that DL started service between RNO and ATL because DL had pulled out of RNO, leaving all their flights to SLC with Delta Connection carriers Skywest and ASE. Now they're back at RNO with the daily to ATL and a daily to SLC, plus several more CRJs to SLC. CO has entered the market with a non-stop flight to IAH and Aloha is there with service to SNA and one-stop service to OGG. Horizon came to town with four dailies to LAX and Frontier also entered the market with service to DEN.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
my favorite Black Sheep QQ route was the "Gulf Coast Flyer"......I mean seriously...who hatched THAT route?

Guaranteed money maker. Those routes were subsidized by the city of Biloxi and were operated with one aircraft. It was operated like a scheduled charter. QQ did extensive charter work, and at one point had four aircraft dedicated to charter operations. We flew tons of charters for Apple Vacations from Flint, MI and ORD too. In addition to that, QQ's RNO-YVR service was filled by a vacation company guaranteeing a profit. That service, however, was daily and operated as a part of the normal QQ schedule.

Quoting Delta777Jet (Thread starter):
No more TWA (cause of AA), no more Northwest !

TWA left RNO before AA bought them. And as far as Northwest goes, it's funny to see they don't even service RNO anymore. They competed vigorously with QQ forcing them out of RNO-MCI and RNO-MSP. Consequently, QQ sued NW and won a monetary settlement of five million. When QQ started RNO-DTW, there wasn't too much fuss from NW. Funny how they fought so hard, and illegally, to boot QQ out and now they're gone themselves.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
I flew QQ several times when they were around and their aircraft and service were fantastic.

It was a great ride while I was there. I loved the family atmosphere and we knew how to "pull together, win together" better than AA ever will. Having said that, I love the paychecks I get from AA, something of the likes I never would have seen at QQ. I am happy to be at AA, very happy, but I do miss the good 'ol days of QQ. I feel like I grew up at QQ because I was hired there when I was just 19. I am now in my 11th year in the airline industry, still with AA, and it blows me away. It was supposed to be a part time job in college that has turned into a life long love affair. And I wouldn't change it for anything.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Wow great post! Thanks for all the info QQflyboy. I work with a couple of people at US that came from QQ (before the merger). They bailed when they heard things were going south. It's sad because all of the routes they flew out of TUS are no longer flown by AA...and from what I understand they only kept a very small number of employees...I think there is only 1 left now. AA sure knows how to screw up mergers! lol

Glad things worked out well for you...best of luck.  Smile


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1612 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4220 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
With Southwest being the dominant carrier at RNO, it's probably fair to say that the service at that airport is currently as good as it's going to get.

I'll believe that when WN adds RNO-SAN non-stop service once or twice a day...a market that has over 400 O&D pax a day. Currently, it is necessary to stop or connect at SJC, OAK or LAS.  yuck 



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1188 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
With Southwest being the dominant carrier at RNO, it's probably fair to say that the service at that airport is currently as good as it's going to get.

I live near SJC. My choice is to either fly from SJC or drive directly to RNO. If I fly, I have to be there 2 hours before, park the car (15 dollars a day), take the one hour flight, transfer to my hotel, etc. Or I can drive and be there in 4 hours. The second option is much cheaper and it allows me to have my car with me. The closer you live to RNO (SMF?), the less reason you have to fly there. That may be one reason why there isn't as much demand. As for anyone flying from other parts of the country to RNO, for the same money (or less) you can fly directly to LAS and have a better time. My wife and I love Reno but would go to Vegas more often if we could.

FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 4):
best of luck.

Thank you. As you could probably guess from my user name, I'd have a lot to say about QQ. I still have a lot of memorabilia from QQ, including safety cards, styro cups, my wings, tie and name bar, my graduation certificates (agent and flight attendant) and other misc. stuff like the pads we used to take drink orders in first class. A strange collection indeed. And then the photos... lots of them!

There is one thing for sure, QQ employees knew how to have a good time. To this day at AA I hear flight attendants say they've never met a QQ flight attendant that wasn't a lot of fun. We had to be. The company culture not only fostered it, but demanded it. And passengers still remember us, too. Every so often I wear a small QQ lapel pin on my blazer. About two years ago I was working a 738 from SNA to SJC and a first class passenger caught site of the pin. He asked me if I had worked for QQ, and I when I told him yes, he said, "I still miss you guys. I loved Reno Air. I'm glad you're here today." Wasn't that flattering? It's weird, but people still miss QQ, and those that flew us (most anyway) remember the airline very fondly. There was just something about Reno Air.

There is a book about Reno Air written by TJ Martini. It's almost a yearbook of sorts, chronicling the life of Reno Air from beginning to end. It's very interesting as a former employee, but I imagine airline enthusiasts would enjoy it to. It's called "Wings of Pride."

A couple of things I found interesting and nostalgic in the editorial review of the book on http://www.amazon.com:

"Through all their struggles, the once Nevada-based Reno Air was one of the few start-up airlines that were actually successful. Throughout their seven-year history, Reno Air flew to nearly every state in the United States, and carried more than 30 million passengers into hundreds of cities in four different countries. Reno Air ended its seven-year run on November 19, 1998, when American Airlines bought the airline for $124 Million.

"Flying high above the clouds with their classic design of green and silver lettering proudly etched across their fuselage, and the snow-capped mountains on the tail, Reno Air will forever be remembered by the millions of people who crossed her path. And for the heartfelt spirit of every employee, whose infectious energy spread quickly throughout the company, Reno Air would always be "the little airline that could --- and did."

"Wings of Pride, The Story of Reno Air and Its People," is a reminder of the success and impact Reno Air had on the world of aviation, and how such a small but significant airline could reach out world-wide and touch the heart of every city it served."

That's something for an airline based in Reno with 32 airplanes. And that's why Reno Air is remembered so fondly.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
I flew QQ several times when they were around and their aircraft and service were fantastic.

I had a somewhat different experience, albeit just once. I was flying COS-LAS back in 1999, right after the merger. It was the late-night COS-LAS fligth that left COS at, IIRC, around 9pm. The plane was absolutely empty -- probably twenty people onboard including me and my family. The aircraft looked horrific -- there was food and garbage literally lining the aisles, and the bulkhead was so scuffed up from shoe marks that it looked like somebody had spraypainted it. That being said, the service from the QQ flight attendants was very nice, and they were all quite friendly.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
They simply, like almost every other startup, didn't have much of a vision or viable business plan.

I actually think they had a rather good business plan - apply the low-cost operating model to a mid-level service environment and take advantage of an excellent hub in San Jose that was perfectly situated for north-south traffic flows up and down the west coast. It was also smart of them to diversify away from just Reno by supplementing the traffic flows over San Jose, and then towards the end to build up larger and larger operations in LAX -- the 800-lb gorilla of west coast O&D markets, plus LAS, where you also can't go wrong with O&D.


User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4043 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 8):
The aircraft looked horrific -- there was food and garbage literally lining the aisles, and the bulkhead was so scuffed up from shoe marks that it looked like somebody had spraypainted it.

I'll tell you, that was hard even for us to take. QQ kept their aircraft in good shape, and the bulkheads, at least the ones in first class, were beautiful. When we first merged with AA and AA flight attendants started flying QQ planes, they called them "white trash." Remember, AA had basically kept the white paint of QQ, painted over the titles and added the red and blue stripe. The interiors were nasty. AA took financial control of QQ in December 1998 but didn't merge the operation until August 1999. In that eight months, AA did nothing to keep the interiors of QQ's planes looking good, and when AA flight attendants stepped onboard for the first time, they were horrified. And so were the QQ flight attendants. We had never seen the interiors of our aircraft so bad as we did during those eight months. Not much improved and the aircraft permanently left the fleet September 11, 2001.

I won't forget working a trip with an AA flight attendant who was absolutely scared to fly on a QQ plane. She thought they were really old and weren't safe. The AA (not former QQ) captain stepped in and told her that MD-80 was far newer than any AA had, and it was just as safe as any other AA aircraft. I don't know why AA let the interiors go, but they did.

We didn't know at the time what was going to happen to our aircraft. They were just in limbo, but all that was decided on 9/11. AA never returned the QQ fleet to the air once flights began operating post 9/11. Now you can find all of the MD-87s in service with Aero Mexico. Several MD-80s went to Vanguard, Jetsgo, Free Bird, Lion Air and Allegiant. You can still find QQ aircraft flying with Allegiant and Aero Mexico... not sure about Lion Air. Free Bird went to an all Airbus fleet.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineMcMax From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 7):
There was just something about Reno Air.

You got that right! RenoAir was terrific, and I used to fly them from SNA to SFO and farther north (to get my AA miles). The FAs were always very friendly, and I loved the $25 ugrade to first class. I remember once a friend and I were vacationing in the Kenai Peninsula near Anchorage. We flew QQ up to ANC, via SJC and SEA, and upgraded the entire way back and return. The service was fantastic.

I also miss the MD-90s RenoAir used to fly. Talk about a rocket. I always loved sitting in those jets when taking off from SNA. It was like catapulting into the sky.

QQFlyBoy--do you still fly out of SNA often, now that you're with AA?

--Max



De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
User currently onlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5122 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

QQ was an excellent airline, and had a great vision. I would love to see them return to the skies, but like an earlier post said, very unlikely.

Reno Air reminded me of Jet America. They offered great service, and had excellent employees. I miss them!!!! Nothing was better than seeing them in the A gates in Vegas. The Bagel shop was a perfect spot to watch them from. Every night I would sit down with a bagel sandwich, and gawk at the beauty of their planes.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 1):
They simply, like almost every other startup, didn't have much of a vision or viable business plan.

Actually, they were doing very well.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3518 times:

I had two former RenoAir flight attendants on my flight a couple of months ago and they were fantastic! They were sisters and had tons of stories to share with me about what it was like working at an airline like RenoAir. Nothing but fond memories, either!

I also spent a lot of time asking them what it was like to work on the MD-80 series aircraft. While I do enjoy working on a brand-new airplane, I will ALWAYS have a soft-spot for the MD-80 in my heart, having literally grown up on the MD-88 at Delta Air Lines.

Anyway, I miss seeing the RenoAir colorscheme in the sky, but glad to see the legacy lives on!

-Tony



Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

My first airline job was as a CSA for QQ in LAS in '96. They were the just the coolest airline, and I miss them.


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
User currently offlineAlaska737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1063 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Mybe QX could focus on RNO. SEA, PDX, and LAX are already served but they could add more LAX and maybe even BOI, DEN, SFO. idk but Horizon might be good for RNO

User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2398 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting McMax (Reply 10):
I also miss the MD-90s RenoAir used to fly. Talk about a rocket. I always loved sitting in those jets when taking off from SNA. It was like catapulting into the sky.

I echo that sediment, its too bad we only have one airline in the US that flies MD-90s.



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineBoeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 9):
We didn't know at the time what was going to happen to our aircraft. They were just in limbo, but all that was decided on 9/11. AA never returned the QQ fleet to the air once flights began operating post 9/11. Now you can find all of the MD-87s in service with Aero Mexico. Several MD-80s went to Vanguard, Jetsgo, Free Bird, Lion Air and Allegiant. You can still find QQ aircraft flying with Allegiant and Aero Mexico... not sure about Lion Air. Free Bird went to an all Airbus fleet.

I remember towing all the QQ airplanes over the to the USAir ramp in LAX after 9-11, in fact I have a picture of all over them lined up ready to go. I still see N754RA when I fly into DFW she is flying for AeroMexico, I just hope after a couple of polishes she shines up better last time I saw her she was a little dull looking.

David



Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
User currently offlineBriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

QQ made SJC work. SWA makes SJC work but AA can not make SJC as a focus city work. Only a million people, home of Silicon Valley. WTF? AA has pretty much singlehandedly made SJC a second rate airport with the aquisition of Air Cal..then QQ and now they leave SJC high and dry with few flight options left. Thanks alot AA. Maybe you can buy SWA and then cut there SJC flights as well.

User currently offlineBriguy1974 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

QQ was great. Good people, good sched, good planes. We miss them in SJC. If you could not tell.

User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2297 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting McMax (Reply 10):
QQFlyBoy--do you still fly out of SNA often, now that you're with AA?

No... I am now based at JFK and fly international for AA. And that's one of the things I appreciate about AA -- I never would have had that opportunity at Reno Air. I do miss "the biggest little airline" and the family, but there have been many benefits for QQ employees... at least flight attendants and pilots. Many CSAs in RNO and elsewhere were forced to relocate or were laid off. And that's sad. I know the merger didn't work for everyone, but for me it did.

Quoting McMax (Reply 10):
I also miss the MD-90s RenoAir used to fly.

Me too! I loved working that plane. Sadly, being based at RNO, we didn't get to fly them that much. It was mostly crewed by flight attendants based at SJC. If AA's MD-80s were all MD-90s... I would LOVE to work that plane. As it stands, I don't mind the MD-80... I just don't like it for four hours. Even though the MD-90 wasn't a whole lot bigger, it was certainly nicer and much, much more quiet. We could actually carry on a conversation sitting on the aft jumpseat without yelling.

I will always have fond memories of QQ and the people that I worked with... many of whom I still keep in touch with... several of whom have become life long friends.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
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