Scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11806 posts, RR: 48 Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 15025 times:
Airbus just updated their sales spreadsheet.
Aer Lingus - 2 x A320
Air Blue - 2 x A320
Lufthansa - 5 x A319, 10 x A320, 15 x A321, 5 x A333
Blue Wings - 16 x A320, 4 x A321
Tiger Airways - 8 x A320
CASGC - 40 x A319, 60 x A320, 50 x A321
Skybus - 65 x A319
While a nice number, shame not to see more widebody orders firmed up. Nice sales for the A321.
Bringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14812 times:
Whats really worrying when you look at those figures is that with 460 odd Narrowbodies out of those 508 , 92% of the sales are of narrow bodies which dont have high profit margins (relativly) whereas their competitor has a better then 80-20 ratio b/w NB's and WB's inaddition to selling More NB's . This might not mean much this year however if this trend continues boeing will use those extra profits from high WB sales (particularly in the middle of the market) to Cross subsidize its NB product and capture market share .
Bringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14638 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 10): Narrowbodies are Airbus' strength, right now, so that is what is selling.
NB's are their strengths for sure however given this trend (boeing has more NB's on order then Airbus's NB's and WB's combined) their ORDER VALUE will be shrinking as compared to their competitor which will reflect on profit . As the NB is very highly contested and the Main reason for Airlines being Price and availability ( the 2 products are so closely matched) It wouldnt be long before boeing starts to use the higher profits (from greater WB sales) to cross subsidize its NB product lines (offer them cheaper then what they are currently) which will have a cascading effect on "Economy's of scale" Couple that to the fact that there is a weaker dollar it will be very hard for Airbus to reverse that trend and might give boeing the Margin going into the next 5-8 years even in the NB segement (provided they ramp up ofcourse)
There is also another article that was published last week which compared the profit margins (in relative terms and not in no.s) and it said that the A380 and 747 have the highest profit margins but a small market , the 737/320 have a lower profit margin but a big market while the Middle of the sector is a perfect balance between profit and Market size. I will try to find it and post that one aswell . Maybe someone else read it (could have been IHT ) and I'd appreciate it if they posted that.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28632 posts, RR: 84 Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14346 times:
Quoting Bringiton (Reply 16): NB's are their strengths for sure however given this trend...their ORDER VALUE will be shrinking as compared to their competitor which will reflect on profit.
Yes it will, but in Airbus' favor is there have been commitments for new A330 and A380s this year, plus once they are ready to formally offer the A350XWB for sale, many (if not most) of those orders should be converted based on the amount of compensation Airbus is setting aside due to the later EIS.
Quote: As the NB is very highly contested and the main reason for airlines being price and availability...it wouldn't be long before Boeing starts to use the higher profits to cross-subsidize it's NB product lines...
Very true. However, Airbus does have the A320E up their sleeves which could help them preserve their margins a bit stronger plus operators who have already made large commitments to the A320 family will be more inclined to stay with it even if Boeing offers more favorable replies to RFPs.
Bringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14290 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 22): Airbus does have the A320E up their sleeves
Has it been officially launched? Or is it going to be something that will just show up ? IIRC more the 50% of the Eff. gains over A320 would have been because of the Winglets a project that Airbus has now dropped so I wonder how much money airbus will be putting in and the return they'll be getting out of the other end . I highly doubt that Boeing can increase 737 Capacity to a level where Airbus really feels the pinch therefore IMO it would be wiser for Airbus to hold back and go at it in one go with the A320RS .
As far as the A350 orders are concerned havent the FIRM onse been allready counted (the onse signed last year for instance?
25 Bringiton: No I dont ! I was reffering to this FY and not the backlogs . We are talking about annual orders here as !
26 NYC777: I believe he's talking about orders in 2006 only. That is certainly true.
27 Scbriml: Accepted. But was far from clear from the post (IMHO). Must stop posting after a bottle of wine! Strictly speaking, just October's!
28 NYC777: I wonder if China is going to order 150 more 737s?
29 Stitch: Yes, Airbus still apparently lists them on their latest spreadsheet as well as on their website table. Still, re-confirmations will at least keep tho
30 DAL767400ER: Not unless Boeing builds a 737 plant in China .
31 Stitch: More likely China will order 777s and 787s to offset the revenues going to Airbus via the factory. So less planes, but more value per plane.
32 WINGS: Well not bad for a months work. I was actually expecting some additional orders. I would expect to see Qantas 8x A388 + 2 A332 booked in November. I w
33 Osiris30: Would that be on December 46th again?
34 WINGS: Well yes that sounds about right. After all only today are we getting the details about orders booked in October. Regards, Wings
35 Scbriml: Yes, around the middle of January they will announce their yearly sales and delivery totals. Just as they have every other year.
36 DAYflyer: This order should just about be enough to offset the loss from the cancelled A-340-600 order by EK a couple weeks ago.
37 Stitch: Well if Airbus is charging a billion or two for an A340-600 - which would be necessary for 20 of them to equal the value of 275 A320s - then yeah, I
38 Scbriml: Tim Clark of EK stated that "another customer" was taking those A346s, so not actually a loss to Airbus if true.
39 Jacobin777: I'm glad to see Airbus had a nice month...its nice to see some parity between the two majour manufacturers... Its in the best interest for the everyon