Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airbus Sells 282 Planes In October  
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15635 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Airbus just updated their sales spreadsheet.

Aer Lingus - 2 x A320
Air Blue - 2 x A320
Lufthansa - 5 x A319, 10 x A320, 15 x A321, 5 x A333
Blue Wings - 16 x A320, 4 x A321
Tiger Airways - 8 x A320
CASGC - 40 x A319, 60 x A320, 50 x A321
Skybus - 65 x A319

While a nice number, shame not to see more widebody orders firmed up. Nice sales for the A321.

Total sales for year to date now 508.

Total deliveries for year to date now 353.


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
177 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFloris From Netherlands, joined Jun 2003, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15639 times:

And depsite that they are now loss making... Wow. That's REALLY bad.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15645 times:

OK, so the bulk of those were the Chinese order...good for Airbus. However, a chilling number are for a DOA LCC.

Quoting Floris (Reply 1):
And depsite that they are now loss making... Wow. That's REALLY bad.

They only get to book deposits from these orders, which constitutes both an asset and a liability. It doesn't get booked as revenue until delivery.

[Edited 2006-11-09 18:18:24]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15604 times:

Great october for Airbus ! Hopefully Nov. and Dec. are just as good !

User currently offlineLGW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15606 times:

Were any of the deliveries on time? Big grin

User currently offlineBAtriple7 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15552 times:

Quoting LGW (Reply 4):
Were any of the deliveries on time?

It says 'orders' in the title....not deliveries.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9997 posts, RR: 96
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15453 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LGW (Reply 4):
Were any of the deliveries on time?

All of them...............


User currently offlineAirMailer From United States of America, joined May 2006, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15419 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 6):
All of them...............

............... that actually got delivered.


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15422 times:

Whats really worrying when you look at those figures is that with 460 odd Narrowbodies out of those 508 , 92% of the sales are of narrow bodies which dont have high profit margins (relativly) whereas their competitor has a better then 80-20 ratio b/w NB's and WB's inaddition to selling More NB's . This might not mean much this year however if this trend continues boeing will use those extra profits from high WB sales (particularly in the middle of the market) to Cross subsidize its NB product and capture market share .

User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5744 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15344 times:

What were their cancellations like? I assume that the FedEx cancellation won't show up until next month's update.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 15311 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Scbriml (Thread starter):
While a nice number, shame not to see more widebody orders firmed up.



Quoting Bringiton (Reply 8):
Whats really worrying when you look at those figures is that with 460-odd narrowbodies out of those 508, 92% of the sales are of narrowbodies...

Narrowbodies are Airbus' strength, right now, so that is what is selling.

And selling mighty well, evidently.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15276 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Narrowbodies are Airbus' strength, right now, so that is what is selling.

I'm not disputing that, but there have been a lot of A330 commitments this year which have yet to be firmed up. It would have been nice to see a bit more balance.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15275 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 9):
I assume that the FedEx cancellation won't show up until next month's update.

Does Airbus even show cancellations in the totals on their orders page?



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15275 times:

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 8):
92% of the sales are of narrow bodies which dont have high profit margins (relativly)

Wheres the rational behind this statement? Do you know what the margins are for the A320 series?


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15244 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 12):
Does Airbus even show cancellations in the totals on their orders page?

The spreadsheets show it, as does the order pages - when the cancellation has gone through.


User currently offlineNoWorries From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15244 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
OK, so the bulk of those were the Chinese order...good for Airbus.

Are any/all of these scheduled to be assembled in China? Presumably the margins will be better on those planes.


User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15248 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Narrowbodies are Airbus' strength, right now, so that is what is selling.

NB's are their strengths for sure however given this trend (boeing has more NB's on order then Airbus's NB's and WB's combined) their ORDER VALUE will be shrinking as compared to their competitor which will reflect on profit . As the NB is very highly contested and the Main reason for Airlines being Price and availability ( the 2 products are so closely matched) It wouldnt be long before boeing starts to use the higher profits (from greater WB sales) to cross subsidize its NB product lines (offer them cheaper then what they are currently) which will have a cascading effect on "Economy's of scale" Couple that to the fact that there is a weaker dollar it will be very hard for Airbus to reverse that trend and might give boeing the Margin going into the next 5-8 years even in the NB segement (provided they ramp up ofcourse)

[Edited 2006-11-09 19:00:22]

User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4316 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15198 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 11):
there have been a lot of A330 commitments this year which have yet to be firmed up.

My guess is they'll firm them up on December 31, 2006.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15154 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Wheres the rational behind this statement? Do you know what the margins are for the A320 series?

The fact that NB's have Lower Profit margins then WB's is widely acknowledged


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15120 times:

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):
The fact that NB's have Lower Profit margins then WB's is widely acknowledged

By who?


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15090 times:

508?That is not bad.The problem is that except for a few orders, the orders are only for narrow bodies


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 19):
By who?

Fair use of some lines -

""What's more, narrowbodies typically have profit margins around 20% less than the bigger planes.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/.../jan2006/nf20060117_9445_db039.htm


There is also another article that was published last week which compared the profit margins (in relative terms and not in no.s) and it said that the A380 and 747 have the highest profit margins but a small market , the 737/320 have a lower profit margin but a big market while the Middle of the sector is a perfect balance between profit and Market size. I will try to find it and post that one aswell . Maybe someone else read it (could have been IHT ) and I'd appreciate it if they posted that.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14956 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 16):
NB's are their strengths for sure however given this trend...their ORDER VALUE will be shrinking as compared to their competitor which will reflect on profit.

Yes it will, but in Airbus' favor is there have been commitments for new A330 and A380s this year, plus once they are ready to formally offer the A350XWB for sale, many (if not most) of those orders should be converted based on the amount of compensation Airbus is setting aside due to the later EIS.

Quote:
As the NB is very highly contested and the main reason for airlines being price and availability...it wouldn't be long before Boeing starts to use the higher profits to cross-subsidize it's NB product lines...

Very true. However, Airbus does have the A320E up their sleeves which could help them preserve their margins a bit stronger plus operators who have already made large commitments to the A320 family will be more inclined to stay with it even if Boeing offers more favorable replies to RFPs.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14907 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 16):
(boeing has more NB's on order then Airbus's NB's and WB's combined)

Do you make this up as you go along? banghead 

Boeing has a 737 backlog of 1442 while Airbus has an A32x backlog of 1825.

Numbers from both manufacturer's websites.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 14900 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
Airbus does have the A320E up their sleeves

Has it been officially launched? Or is it going to be something that will just show up ? IIRC more the 50% of the Eff. gains over A320 would have been because of the Winglets a project that Airbus has now dropped so I wonder how much money airbus will be putting in and the return they'll be getting out of the other end . I highly doubt that Boeing can increase 737 Capacity to a level where Airbus really feels the pinch therefore IMO it would be wiser for Airbus to hold back and go at it in one go with the A320RS .


As far as the A350 orders are concerned havent the FIRM onse been allready counted (the onse signed last year for instance?


25 Bringiton : No I dont ! I was reffering to this FY and not the backlogs . We are talking about annual orders here as !
26 NYC777 : I believe he's talking about orders in 2006 only. That is certainly true.
27 Post contains images Scbriml : Accepted. But was far from clear from the post (IMHO). Must stop posting after a bottle of wine! Strictly speaking, just October's!
28 NYC777 : I wonder if China is going to order 150 more 737s?
29 Post contains images Stitch : Yes, Airbus still apparently lists them on their latest spreadsheet as well as on their website table. Still, re-confirmations will at least keep tho
30 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Not unless Boeing builds a 737 plant in China .
31 Stitch : More likely China will order 777s and 787s to offset the revenues going to Airbus via the factory. So less planes, but more value per plane.
32 WINGS : Well not bad for a months work. I was actually expecting some additional orders. I would expect to see Qantas 8x A388 + 2 A332 booked in November. I w
33 Post contains images Osiris30 : Would that be on December 46th again?
34 WINGS : Well yes that sounds about right. After all only today are we getting the details about orders booked in October. Regards, Wings
35 Scbriml : Yes, around the middle of January they will announce their yearly sales and delivery totals. Just as they have every other year.
36 DAYflyer : This order should just about be enough to offset the loss from the cancelled A-340-600 order by EK a couple weeks ago.
37 Post contains images Stitch : Well if Airbus is charging a billion or two for an A340-600 - which would be necessary for 20 of them to equal the value of 275 A320s - then yeah, I
38 Scbriml : Tim Clark of EK stated that "another customer" was taking those A346s, so not actually a loss to Airbus if true.
39 Jacobin777 : I'm glad to see Airbus had a nice month...its nice to see some parity between the two majour manufacturers... Its in the best interest for the everyon
40 Bringiton : Any word on who it might be ?
41 Osiris30 : Or maybe 10 firmly 100% cancelled Fedex A380Fs.. That's gotta be $1-$1.5B in real sales dollars that just walked away.
42 Post contains images Scbriml : Allegedly it's a new leasing company based in UAE.
43 Scbriml : Maybe, maybe not. If not, then that's at least 65 737s that Boeing didn't get to sell.
44 UALMMFlyer : One of the criteria for making public announcement at Boeing is the payment of deposits by customers, IIRC. Does Airbus use the same criteria in booki
45 Post contains images Astuteman : If I could find the link it would help, but IIRC, "industry" acknowledges that margins on narrowbodys are c. 20% below those on widebody's... e.g a 1
46 Post contains images N328KF : Emirates Lease Finance Corporation?
47 Post contains images Ikramerica : Or my birthday, Jan 12. Sure it was. Just because you didn't get it doesn't make it unclear. Everyone else understood... Anyway, don't expect more ne
48 Osiris30 : You're right.. that certainly makes Airbus feel better about the 400+ 330/350's they aren't selling due to the 787. That was a daft statement to make
49 Scbriml : Despite many claims to the contrary by the Airbus bashers here, Airbus is pretty much the same. Signed contract and deposit paid = firm order. Both m
50 Scbriml : In which case they'll be 2007 orders.
51 Lumberton : Not only that, I seriously doubt that either OEM discounts the way some here speculate. Given the fact that the backlogs are as referenced byScbriml:
52 Osiris30 : Someone just announced the other day (was it the China announcement?, might be wrong might have been a 737 customer, doesn't much matter) that they w
53 Post contains images Scbriml : Absolutely not. The original implication was that although this was a large order booked by Airbus, the airline is doomed to failure. Maybe, maybe no
54 Bringiton : Agreed however we also need to factor in the cost of a widebody aswell as the fact that amongst WB's the profit margins vary between those on the 787
55 Osiris30 : In light of your clarification it's not, but you should have probably included that reasoning in the original post. It just came across as sour grape
56 Glideslope : You wipe those Skybus 319's. Another US LCC to come and go. Nothing more.
57 Post contains images Lumberton : I'd like to see the link if you can find it. AFAIK, the only time I heard a reliable number was when the redoutable MOL claimed he "raped" Boeing and
58 Scbriml : Wasn't intended that way, I should stop posting when I'm tired. I'm off to bed, will continue tomorrow!
59 Scbriml : Maybe, maybe not. Again!
60 N328KF : You make it sound like it's 50/50, when the odds are definitely stacked against SkyBus. They have come along at a point of market saturation, and aga
61 Post contains images Astuteman : No argument there, my friend Regards
62 Osiris30 : I might be wrong.. I did a quick google news, but way too many hits to sift through at work (and still have a clear conscience LOL). It may have even
63 Post contains images Flysherwood : Make that December 36, 2006!!!
64 Shenzhen : Wonder how much profit Airbus will make on the 150 for China. Wonder if the sale value will be less then those built in the EU, whilst sharing the pro
65 Flysherwood : Just what Airbus needs. More risk to its financial health!
66 Mariner : What risk? Airbus got paid for the Independence A319's. They will be paid for the Skybus aircraft. The aircraft are not assigned to the new owners un
67 EBJ1248650 : Not a single A318 listed either.
68 N328KF : Some Independence airframes were completed as white-tails, weren't they?
69 Post contains images Mariner : In that round? No. But they've sold a few this year - the biz verson - and Frontier ordered more. It doesn't really matter. It is the same production
70 Post contains images Mariner : I don't think so. Maybe temporarily, until they found new owners. The aircraft are not hard to place - I think JetBlue sold a couple of their A320 sl
71 Post contains images Jacobin777 : When FYI went out of business, there were many A319's available in the open market... It depresses market value....at least in theory. That being sai
72 MrComet : UHH, so what if the margin is smaller IF YOU SELL 460 OF THEM!!!! Seriously, I know Airbus wants to sell more WBs and their flagship carrier is curre
73 Mariner : "many"? Some older models, perhaps, but I don't recall too many new (or new-ish) ones. And I seem to remember the IAir A319's were reasonably quickly
74 RedFlyer : Just playing Devil's advocate here...but someone ate the finance costs on those birds that Airbus got paid for, right? Wouldn't that make financiers
75 Mariner : If they can't place the aircraft, sure. Much as I like the A318 as a plane, I'd rather be trying to place a repossessed A319. If they can place the a
76 RedFlyer : No need to read anything into what I said. My comment about superior aircraft was just an off-hand comment to reinforce my point that often times wha
77 Mariner : I don't think I was reading anything into what you said - I was just puzzled. Sure. A small, new airline will pay more (to the bank, at least) than a
78 M27 : Did Boeing book the Primaris order as confirmed?
79 Post contains images RedFlyer : Mariner, I agree with everything you say. My original post was, as I said, just to play Devil's advocate; although, I do think over time if there is
80 Post contains links Mariner : I've no idea. I wouldn't know how to check that. Boeing "confirmed" the order: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/q4/nr_041021g.html So Primari
81 M27 : If you don't know if they booked the order, then how do you know this? You know, I just flat don't believe that you don't know!!! If by some rare cha
82 Post contains images Mariner : Thanks for that. Generally, Boeing - or any manufacturer - does not "confirm" orders unless they have fairly strong evidence that the aircraft ordere
83 Scbriml : As Mariner has adequately explained, it's hardly much of a risk to Airbus. If Skybus is successful, then it's a big win for Airbus.
84 M27 : Exactly, so No thats right! Just tell us again how Frontier came to select Airbus! You know, I wish I had time to search previous posts for evidence
85 Scbriml : Why does it wind you guys up so much that Airbus announces their yearly totals in the middle of January? Does Boeing announce their at midnight on Ja
86 Mariner : If you agree with me, I don't know what the problem is. mariner
87 Osiris30 : You're missing the point.. last year Airbus retroactively changed their order counting year end so they could book an early Jan order into the prior
88 Bringiton : More then a year worth of backlog? How many A320's do Airbus produce annualy? Selling more WB's increases profit and revenues . Just compare the ammo
89 M27 : Because if "you don't know" if Boeing confirmed the order, then how can you compare the two! I perceive that you could have used an example like Gol
90 Mariner : I do know Boeing confirmed the order. They said so - I posted the link. But there is a language to these things that I do not entirely understand - a
91 Jacobin777 : Word "many" is relative...it could be as few as 6-7 and as much as 50.....I know Indy had more than 5, so for me to say "many" was justifiable... I c
92 Johnny : In the widebody-market i am really sure we have neutral or negative margins for both A and B in the moment because they both are fighting for every si
93 Bringiton : That doesnt show interms of sales ! The T7 and the 747-F is practically monopolizing the market of late.
94 Bringiton : I really dont see that happening as both the NG and 320 are very close and usually it is the cost and availability that gets a one up over the other
95 Johnny : "That doesnt show interms of sales ! The T7 and the 747-F is practically monopolizing the market of late." The B747-F is not monopolizing the market -
96 PanAm_DC10 : Thank you for the link Mariner, much appreciated. However, read the fine print. At no point do Boeing reference the Primaris commitment as an order o
97 Bringiton : Which A350? And you have no evidence or a report to suggest that . Or do you? How do you know that they are being offered at roughly equal price and
98 Post contains images Mariner : I'm confused. Isn't that what I said? I posted a link which said the "Boeing confirmed the order". However, I clearly stated that I did not know if i
99 Post contains links Bringiton : Here is that Forbes Article That i was referring to in addition to the BW article that I allready posted. Fair use of some lines - http://www.forbes.c
100 Johnny : @Bringiton "This is why Boeing has chosen to focus on the 787 and 777, and has fallen back on an upgraded 747 to challenge the A380." Really...?!?
101 Bringiton : It meant that this was the reason that boeing has gone on and Presented a upgraded 747-8 instead of going in for a totally new expensive VLA . The ar
102 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : In the spirit of discussion, my full quote was; However, By quoting the statement such as you did by the definition of that language you appear to ha
103 M27 : If you are trying to say that I claim to be an expert, then you have a tough roe to hoe! No way do I expect you to change one iota. You just continue
104 Mariner : I'm still confused. I was asked: To which I said: I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. I don't feel "picked on". Should I? ??? mariner
105 PanAm_DC10 : That sir is a fair point; That too is a fair point, however, you did know as you then provided a link and stated; I revert to the terminology referre
106 Mariner : And before providing that link, I said: Putting "confirmed" in inverted commas. And I also said: Having also stressed that I do not fully understand
107 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : But the link didn't confirm an order, simply a selection, besides by reply #90 you stated; Respectfully, no inverted commas there my good man Please
108 Mariner : Then it is a confusion of English language. Generally, in a written debate, if one uses inverted commas in the first instance, they are implicit each
109 PanAm_DC10 : You're most welcome I believe there could well be an easier way around it; I suggest that you take note of an impending statement from the national c
110 Bringiton : You seemed to have got me wrong . The reason I wrote which 350? was because there isnt a A350 available between 2008 and 2013-2014 ie 5-6 year sepera
111 Post contains links PanAm_DC10 : Respectfully, I'm not too sure about that. On that I concur sir, Boeing do have an advantage within the time frame you mention, however, if reports s
112 Bringiton : PANAM you are taking this quote out of context . My reason to mention the A350 was just to show that the 787 got many orders before there was even a C
113 PanAm_DC10 : Bringiton I do see your point, I understand the context with which you posted if after reading in more detail the other members post. When you mention
114 Bringiton : Thx for the welcome . I have been passivly reading through Airlines.net for the longest time however joined only a few weeks ago . In all honesty thi
115 Bringiton : Oops misspeled Airliners.net !! Why is that I can edit some posts while not others?
116 Post contains images Scbriml : Airbus's sales year is Jan 1st to Dec 31st, just the same as Boeing. Boeing tends to announce their yearly totals about a week in to January, Airbus
117 N328KF : I don't think that Airbus added deals made from January 1-7 of 2006 into the FY2005 into the orders. What I think they did was to count LoIs as commi
118 Post contains links Bringiton : Here is the article i found which explains last years orders race - http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/256050_air18.html
119 53Sqdn : You know what! Why don't Boeing just bomb the hell out of Airbus plants? The yanks on here (mostly) would be happy(ier) and then they could (in theory
120 Scbriml : Airbus's treatment of Chinese orders has been very consistent. Initially the orders are shown as belonging to CASGC, then as the planes are allocated
121 Zvezda : Whether Airbus are cheating in that particular regard or not, by delaying the announcement for a few weeks, Airbus are creating the perception that t
122 RedFlyer : Boeing announces its year-end totals usually during the first week after the period-end. If you notice, their totals page is updated once a week and
123 FWAERJ : I wouldn't call Skybus DOA until they've been flying for a while. People here on a.net and elsewhere said the exact same thing about JetBlue when the
124 Post contains images Stitch : Boeing has the more robust widebody product line right now and demand for much of it is high. Airbus' strongest widebody cards - the A332 and A333 -
125 BoomBoom : " target=_blank>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/busine....html Thanks for the link: Quote: Once again, Airbus beat Boeing in jetliner orders. But this t
126 Osiris30 : Scbriml: I think you are taking my statement a little too seriously. It was meant more as a friendly jab than anything else. Personally I don't care
127 N328KF : If they've been flying for a while and then die, then they're not DOA. Dead On Arrival.
128 Post contains images Scbriml : But not on Jan 1. So, Boeing has a delay and Airbus has a delay. What's the difference? This month for example, the page was not updated till late on
129 Post contains images Scbriml : I'll calm down then!
130 Osiris30 : Skybus isn't flying yet.. haven't flown yet.. probably won't fly.. and do walking dead count? LOL
131 Post contains images 787engineer : Oh, well the difference was about 11 days . Sorry couldn't resist
132 RedFlyer : Yes, but Boeing's "delay" is consistent with the timing of it's weekly updates. Airbus' "delay" is not. Its year-end "delay" is over 2X as long. Why?
133 Post contains images Scbriml : Try reply # 131!
134 Scbriml : In exactly the same way that their recently announced follow-on order for 150 A32x was booked as soon as it was announced. As I said in reply #121:
135 Post contains links and images Ikramerica : That would be strange, as it's a national holiday in the USA, so the earliest would have been Jan 2nd, though this past year that was the observed ho
136 Jdevora : I don't have a reason, but that seams to be the norm at Airbus, they are "late" every month , this months, for example, they updated the spreadsheet
137 Post contains images Stitch : Honestly I don't know why we keep debating this topic. Well, I do, but... It would be a great deal easier if both companies "booked" orders the same w
138 Post contains images Scbriml : Just as it's Airbus's to do it monthly. It's also Airbus's SOP to announce yearly totals in mid January. Just because you want to believe that Airbus
139 RedFlyer : Interesting how the holidays don't stop Boeing from keeping with period-close deadlines, even though the Holidays are just as big here in the U.S., i
140 Osiris30 : Ok guys.. I bought up the whole Airbus thing as a light-hearted pot shot at Airbus, nothing more. Who cares. At the end of the day Boeing smoked Airbu
141 Post contains images Stitch : It would be helpful to know if the first Chinese firmed the order when it was announced or if they negotiated a bit before signing it. Same with this
142 Post contains images Pygmalion :
143 Post contains images Osiris30 : I hope you aren't putting me in either camp because I pointed out a fact. I too agree it's silly. At the end of the day my 'caring' for either compan
144 Post contains images Manni : Q. Did Airbus book any orders from januari 2006 as 2005 orders? A. There's no evidence at all. But let's just go with that 'naieve' belief. Airbus cer
145 Zvezda : The B787-9 will not be delivered until 2010. Certainly, the B777-200LR is more efficient than the A340-500 and the B777-300ER is more efficient than
146 Ikramerica : It's not that. It's simply that Airbus booked orders (China) in the year China placed the order, not when the airlines booked them. Fine, that's thei
147 Post contains images Stitch : I thought I read in AC's or SQ's PR that they'd get em in 2009 when they ordered them, but maybe they were being optimistic. "77LR" equals "Longer Ra
148 RedFlyer : That's because the A350 isn't even launched yet. Nice spin.
149 Post contains images Scbriml : They did! The order was announced on Dec 5th 2005 and hit Airbus's books in December. This years order was announced on Oct 26th and hit Airbus's boo
150 N328KF : I think the bigger thing is that Airbus takes months or YEARS (see: NW, UPS A300-600F, AC A340-600) to note cancellations in their accounting data.
151 Post contains images RedFlyer : Was it actually an "order" that was announced in December 2005? (And I don't mean what the general media reported since they usually do not discern b
152 Manni : No spin. Qantas ordered 8 additional A380s and 4 A330s on October 29th. These are firm orders and didn't even make it in the October total. 12 extra
153 2wingtips : And there's a clear difference apparently in what Boeing and Airbus call firm orders. The doubt surrounding the business case for the Skybus A319 ord
154 Post contains links Scbriml : That is as true for Boeing as it is for Airbus on any order. The fact is if anyone here does know, they're almost certainly under NDA so shouldn't sa
155 Scbriml : In exactly the same way, Airbus will count its order as it always has and will likely finish some way behind Boeing. My belief is that both manufactu
156 Post contains links Scbriml : Based on what? http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...6c6b5b-174b-4516-9426-3841f1d692d7
157 BoomBoom : If you apply the Boeing method to last years orders, Boeing won. If you apply the Airbus method to last years orders, Boeing won. If you look at the
158 Post contains images RedFlyer : It was spin. To claim that Airbus is somehow above board because they did not count an LOI as an order on a plane that is not even launched yet is sp
159 Post contains images Scbriml : As I said, it's totally pointless to bleat on and on about "if this" or "if that". But it didn't stop you did it? No argument with your third point b
160 BoomBoom : Then why do you keep doing it?
161 Post contains links Jdevora : http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...ases_items/05_05_12_CASGCA320.html
162 Jdevora : In Spain the last xmas public holiday is the 6th January ("Los Reyes magos, when we do the present exchange), I don't know when they end in France, b
163 Trevd : No disrespect here but just about every one of these points is wrong. The 747-8F (that is the only product Boeing is offering, the 747-400F/ERF is co
164 Post contains images Scbriml : That's irony right?
165 Manni : Can you give me one example were Airbus counted a LOI as a firm order?
166 Post contains images BoomBoom : No, you've made over 20 posts in this thread. If anyone's bleating on about this, it's you. Try and get over it and move on.
167 2wingtips : EK A346 order? EK say they have cancelled 10 and the Airbus orders page show 18 "firmly" ordered. Someone is wrong and I wonder how long these will s
168 Stitch : EK signed an order for those planes. Now, unless they just walked away from the deposits, they're still tasked to EK, regardless of what Mr. Clark sa
169 RedFlyer : You're missing the point. I did not say Airbus counted an LOI as a firm order. That's not the issue. I was having a good debate with Scbriml when you
170 Manni : In reply 148 (my first reply in this thread), I didn't quote any of you. I answered the 2 most asked, debated questions in this thread (that actually
171 2wingtips : Maybe, but my point is Airbus have this logged as 18 orders and EK say it is 10. Someone is right and someone is wrong. My suspicion is that the orde
172 Post contains images Stitch : Well the order was for 10 frames plus 10 options, so if Airbus was counting options as orders, the number should be 20, not 18. And there should be a
173 Scbriml : I don't think Airbus has ever shown options on their O&D spreadsheet.
174 Post contains images Stitch : You are correct. "OPR" stands for Operational. Well, they certainly aren't counting options in the A380 or A350 tallies, so it does not appear Airbus
175 2wingtips : Not true, I'm afraid. The order was 10 firm, 8 options and 2 leased from ILFC.
176 Post contains images Stitch : Fair enough. All the news outlets said "10 + 10" so...
177 Glacote : I had forgotten this comment. Quoted again for posterity. This singlehandedly proves R. Aboulafia's bias. 1) No real expert cares about who has the m
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Airbus Sells Nine Airplanes In April posted Fri May 5 2006 20:07:47 by DAYflyer
Airbus To Build Planes In China posted Thu Mar 16 2006 18:20:13 by TinkerBelle
Airbus Sells A Plane In Japan! posted Fri Mar 31 2006 21:28:48 by BoomBoom
Airbus Will Sell 78 Planes In China In 2006 posted Tue Nov 15 2005 22:36:43 by FCKC
Airbus Planes In New Colours posted Tue Jan 25 2005 03:37:22 by Sunnyb
Why Not Price Airbus' Planes In Euros? posted Sat Nov 27 2004 20:15:49 by A380900
Little Airbus Planes In USA, How? posted Mon Dec 29 2003 21:57:55 by Lugonza_2001
RFD Sees Rebound In October posted Sat Nov 11 2006 15:31:02 by KarlB737
CNN Poll On Small Planes In Big Cities - Vote! posted Thu Oct 12 2006 21:32:04 by 2H4
Which Planes In New US Colors? posted Mon Sep 25 2006 07:52:07 by Aloha717200