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DL Term. 3 (ex-Pan Am Worldport) To Be Demolished  
User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7452 times:

PRN Newswire is reporting that today, Delta has submiited its final plans to the Port Authority of NY & NJ for the redevelopment and expansion of it's faciliities at JFK. Part of the plan calls for completely demolishing Terminal 3, the former and venerable Pan Am Worldport building. Delta will move all of its operations to an expanded Terminal 2, and all international flights to a remodeled and expanded Terminal 4. The project will take 4 years to complete.

Terminal 3 is one of the most historially significant buildings in commerical aviation, and was the flagship of Pan Am's international service. The airline financed and designed it, and it was one of the first termianls that was purpose built for 747s.

Sad to see it go.

Sniff  

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineContinentalewr From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

It's about time. Terminal 3 and the adjacent Terminal 2 are horrible and symbolize many of the problems with JFK. They are cramped, inadequate for current ops and
dingy. Delta should consider a 25-30 gate facility perhaps more for its ops there.



User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7323 times:

Agreed, T3 is an inefficent terminal for today's standards in air travel. Terminal 2 however, is worse, so I'm curious to see what they'll do to it.

User currently offlineTexairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7318 times:

Does anybody know where one can find renderings for all of the new JFK terminals? I know AA's website has theirs, but what about the new T4, UA, TWA etc Terminal and now the new DL Terminal.

The JFK/PANYNJ website does not have any drawings.

Thanks.


User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

The Worldport is my favorite aviation-related building and my second favorite building all around (after Yankee Stadium). It is the reason I'm an airliner freak today. Sometimes, progress sucks.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineSeasonedflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

The original T3, the oval building next to the roadway, was not built for 747's....but for 707/727 service. It is far too cramped for modern aircraft and is very inefficient operationally (Delta has to use a tug to pull the aircraft into and out of some of it's gates).

The later extension of T3 towards the runways was built to handle the 747's and includes the dual-loading bridges. It too is cramped and inefficient in design.

When trying to understand JFK, one must remember that it was the FIRST airport ever built for the expressed purpose of being an International gateway. Therefore, every possible mistake was made at JFK and now the airlines (and the Port Authority) are having to expend enormous resources to develop a more efficient airport.

When American, Delta and the Port Authority get done with all their projects, JFK will be a very different place.


User currently offlineSuperG From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

Yes, I agree that the old Pan Am Worldport terminal is old and inefficient, but I'm sorry to see it go. I've spent many hours on the rooftop parking lot airplane watching. I will passing through JFK next month and will be sure to pay a final visit. Here are a couple neat photos of the terminal as it was originally built:

http://members.tripod.com/~psa188/photos/ia11615.JPG
http://members.tripod.com/~psa188/photos/ia12144.JPG



User currently offlineGreggj From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7257 times:

I think the only architectualy significant terminal is TWA's. But it will be sad to see Worldport go. In many ways it 'was' a symbol of the jet age.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6578 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7252 times:

Here is the link to the press release about DL's 1.6 Billion dollar plan for JFK. There's gonna be more gates, more flights and more destinations in the future.

http://www.delta.com/home/press


User currently offlineSuperG From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7246 times:

I think that the original Pan Am's terminal "umbrella" design (in order to keep passengers out of rain) was architecturally significant. However, it was quickly rendered obsolete by the invention of enclosed jetways.

User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7260 times:

Hello,

Is this T3 WorldPort please?


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Hummel



Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus


User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7248 times:

That's too bad.

 


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7244 times:

Yes, the building in the background is Terminal 3 (Worldport). The building in the foreground is Terminal 4, currently being renovated and expanded.

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

It is time for it!! My worst experiences in air travel I always had in T3. Once I had to wait 2 1/2 (two and a half!!!) hours for customs. One hour in a narrow hot, not airconditioned corridor and then 1 1/2 hour at the overcrowded immigration hall. After that I waited one hour for a taxi. At T3 I always waited more than one hour. Since SR changed to T4 it is much better although it is still under construction. Last July I only waited for 20 minutes (at the same time of the day I usually waited at T3).
T3 is my horror   .


User currently offlineEWRSpotter From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7166 times:

Newark Star Ledger: Delta announces plan for new Kennedy terminal

Pataki applauds, but there's no P.A. deal yet
10/19/00

BY AL FRANK
STAFF WRITER

NEW YORK-- Delta Air Lines yesterday announced plans for a $1.6 billion terminal at Kennedy International Airport, a move its chairman said will quadruple operations at the Jamaica, Queens, airport and put the carrier in direct competition with Continental Airlines' hub at Newark International Airport.

"Delta intends to be New York's premier airline flying from here to every major capital of the globe," said Leo Mullin, chairman and chief operating officer of the nation's third-largest carrier.

New York Gov. George Pataki, who hosted the announcement at his midtown Manhattan office, welcomed the news. "For too often, airlines looked to Newark instead of Kennedy, LaGuardia or upstate airports" when it came time to expand, he said.

Right now, Continental bills itself as "New York's hometown airline" and claims 26 percent of the local market, up from 18 percent five years ago. Its more than 700 daily flights account for more than 60 percent of operations at Newark, where it served more than 19 million passengers last year.

Delta's local share now stands at 161/2 percent, right behind the 18 percent held by second-ranked American Airlines, which also is building a $1 billion terminal at JFK.

Delta's shares closed yesterday at $40.38, down 50 cents in trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

The airlines are competing in what is the world's most lucrative -- and busiest -- center for air travel. The 89 million passengers that used Newark, JFK and LaGuardia last year are expected to swell to 130 million by 2009, according to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airports.

The bistate agency contends that while Newark is the busiest airport now, it has little room to expand. JFK, with twice the runways and double the space, can handle plenty of additional growth.

"Continental is a worthy opponent and has done a nice job at Newark," Mullin said. "But we feel the expansion opportunity is greater at JFK because Newark and LaGuardia are (physically) constrained."

He said the hub plan to provide more connecting international and domestic flights is a natural outgrowth of efforts Delta began in 1997 to transform its JFK operations into a major overseas gateway. In three years, the carrier has seen its passenger counts at JFK increase to 4.7 million last year from 3.8 million in 1997.

"It's a shift in strategy to provide more domestic feed than we had before," Mullin said. Ultimately, the airport will be serving more overseas points in Latin America, the Caribbean, Middle East and Asia. It also will add more transcontinental flights to Los Angeles, San Francisco and San Diego and more low-fare service to Florida. It also promised more flights to upstate New York.

Delta was the last of JFK's major lease holders to announce its plans for renovating terminals that opened in the 1960s and became obsolete with the advent of the jumbo jet. Delta took over Terminals 2 and 3 from Pan American World Airways, which went bankrupt in 1991.

Rather than a single stand- alone terminal, Delta has now decided to build a 1.5-million-square foot addition to Terminal 4, the $1 billion replacement for the International Arrivals Building that is to open next May and serve some 30 airlines.

The announcement came just two weeks after a $1.2 billion plan for United Airlines, JetBlue and TWA was disclosed. While that project will spare the landmark concrete shell designed by Eero Saarinen at Terminal 5, the Delta plan will see the demolition of Terminal 3s "floating oval," a four-acre cantilever roof created by Walter Prokosch that could cover Yankee Stadium.

Like American, whose project was announced in January 1999 but not approved until six months later, Delta admitted it still had no deal with the Port Authority. But Pataki's endorsement carries considerable clout with the bistate agency he jointly controls with Gov. Christie Whitman.

Brad Race, Pataki's chief of staff and a Port Authority board member, noted eventual approval was likely, given the size of the investment and the economic boon it will provide the region.

David Sigman, senior vice president of developer LCOR Inc. and general manager for the private entity developing Terminal 4, said he expected negotiations with the Port Authority to continue through the end of the year. Estimates are the deal might be as expensive as American's in costing the agency at least $200 million in lost rent.

But Sigman said the Delta deal will be better than the American package because any Port Authority losses "will be more than offset by the income from the project. With the others, it's complete give."

Delta's new concourse, which is to open in 2004, will have 26 gates to serve an international operation that will quadruple to 164 flights daily by 2014 from 42 today. Delta will connect the new concourse to a renovated Terminal 2, which will have 20 gates to serve domestic flights that will quadruple to 280 daily by 2014 from today's 72.


Al Frank covers airlines. He may be reached at afrank@starledger.com or (973) 877-5808.

http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/index.ssf?/business/ledger/112cd65.html



User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7162 times:

Delta will never have a hub operation at JFK in size and scope to match CO's Newark operations.



User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2713 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7155 times:


Hello,

I'm trully very saddend to hear the news about the demolishment of Pan Am's World Port terminal. I can't help getting nostaligic when I think that this is the same terminal that the first 747 scheduled flight departed from. I guess that it's a sign of the times. We American's are always for bigger and better things and out with the old and in with the new.

It's just so sad for me to see something that Pan Am build from scratch get destroyed.  



Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Tom Hildreth


Pan American World Airways. The world's most experienced airline.


User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 929 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7158 times:

Does that statement still hold true when DL buys up CO and DL ends up with a large operation at EWR and JFK? Never is a LONG, LONG time, i.e.-forever!!! How long do you plan to stand by your statement?

User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (13 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7150 times:

Well, let's see....Delta's press release states that the airline plans to have (BY THE YEAR 2014 255 daily departures at JFK). Currently, Continental has about
380 departures a day from Newark and serves Europe, Latin America, the Caribbean, Canada, Mexico, Asia, and Hawaii. So, the way I see it, Delta will
be a major player at JFK and is a BIG player in the NY market as it is, but the
scope of its ops at JFK will not match CO's at Newark smartass.



User currently offlineNotdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 929 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

Since I don't know you and you are calling me a "smartass" could you just answer my question without the verile slang?
BRGDS

J.


User currently offlineSeasonedflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

ContinentalEWR, I think you're suffering from pilots' disease (gotta have the biggest.....).

DAL's JFK operation will only be sized to match it's Int'l gateway commitments. Most of DAL's flights will be orientated around a morning departure bank to Central/South America and two afternoon/evening departure banks to Europe.

Of course CAL will have a bigger operation in EWR, its a domestic hub as well as an Int'l gateway.

Currently CAL has 248 departures per day from EWR, 2 departures a day from JFK, and 14 per day from LGA. That is a total of 264 departures a day from NYC.

Today DAL has 34 departures per day from EWR, 58 per day from JFK, and 74 per day from LGA. That's a total of 166 departures a day from NYC. These departures don't include RJ's.

DAL's commitment to a much larger facility at JFK and the growth to three full Int'l banks means that 280 departures a day is easily achievable. Once there, DAL's NYC operation will be bigger than CAL's.

Of course, I don't think CAL is going to stop growing in the NYC area, but with EWR nearly maxed out, CAL is going to have to get off the EWR bandwagon and start growing elsewhere in NYC.....most probably JFK as they're too late for LGA slots.


User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (13 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 7071 times:

As you most likely know, CO knows that they will outgrow CO soon and have started a very significant Continental Express operation at LGA, in the slot UNcontrolled regional jet segment. CO Ex. isn't alone however, DL Connection, and AA Eagle have also begun building route networks also.

Russell


User currently offlineVarsity From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7016 times:

Slots or otherwise... where is there runway time or gate space at either LGA or EWR for further expansion?

User currently offlineTWAneedsNOhelp From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7010 times:

  In la-la land. The airlines are being ridiculous.

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