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Big Planes With Small Economy Sections!  
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3890 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8659 times:

I was looking at BA's seatmaps on seatguru and noticed that on its long haul fleet has really small economy class sections in comparison to the size of the aircraft itself!

Must be because of all the high-yield passengers they can attract!

Anyway... what other aircraft have very small economy class sections for their size?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlanetime From Singapore, joined Mar 2006, 719 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8645 times:

Quoting Vasu (Thread starter):
I was looking at BA's seatmaps on seatguru and noticed that on its long haul fleet has really small economy class sections in comparison to the size of the aircraft itself!

Must be because of all the high-yield passengers they can attract!

Anyway... what other aircraft have very small economy class sections for their size?

Hi Vasu,

Well BA specially on thier hourly flights to New york has small economy sections because of the premium traffic they attract. 744's and 777 both have small economy sections specially to business capitals. But BA does fly their normal 744's also to JFK in one of their many flights over there. Besides its frequency that matters on this route.


User currently offlineCOERJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8452 times:

Singapore A345s

THAI A345

ANA 777


User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8402 times:

Quoting COERJ (Reply 2):
Singapore A345s

THAI A345

I wouldn't consider those so small but a niche based on the ultra-longhaul flights they do. It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineJumboForever From Japan, joined Jul 2005, 200 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 8175 times:

As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

The newest 772ER have 70C/36Y+/117Y

As for JL, they have 744 with 91C ! Cattle business class.

Regards,

JumboForever


User currently offlineAlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8102 times:

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 4):
As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

On BA's 777-200ERs, World Traveller (economy) represents less than 1/3rd of floorspace of the aircraft!


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8026 times:

CO's 762ERs.

Not a huge plane mind you.


User currently offlineFoxy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7967 times:

I remember being shocked just how small the economy section was when i travelled on a BA 777

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7944 times:

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 4):
As said before, NH's 773ER are configured with 8F/77C/24Y+/138Y. When you look at the seat map Y represents less that half of the floor space.

SQ's 77Ws will have a similarly small number of Y seats as well, though I'm not sure of the exact number (147?).
Of course F and C seats and cabins are getting bigger by the minute, but it's still weird to see a plane licensed for over 450 seats in a pure Y layout with only 1/3 of it.


User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

The Y seaction of United's PS aircraft is pretty small too.


Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineUALMMFlyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7234 times:

Pre 2001, UA operated 744OP and 742SP with bigger first class (35/36 seats), business class ( 130+ seats), and a smaller Y section ( 120 seats roughly). The numbers of the seats in each cabin are not exact, but in terms of areas occupied inside the plane, Y was the smallest section.


Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
User currently offlineSkyHigh777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7137 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
I wouldn't consider those so small but a niche based on the ultra-longhaul flights they do. It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.

Ya right, I had to endure that from IAD-JNB on SAA....nearly killed myself in flight!



Prepare for take-off.
User currently offline787A380 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

I remember travelling on a BA 777 from london to Muscat and there was a really small economy section, and a massive club world, there must have been over 60 seats in the Club World cabin. There was a maximum of 15 rows in economy!

User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.


I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

http://www.japanair.com/e/aboutjal/seating.php

Click the K05 or L04 configuration (they're similar). I flew on one of these JFK-NRT a few weeks ago. It was a little strange. It looks even more dramatic in person; the economy section really looks tiny. We were actually in row 51, and it was really strange seeing like 4 different sections of business class stretching in front of us on takeoff and landing (they had the curtain closed the rest of the time).



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineZRHnerd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

Not a big plane, mind you, but LX's A319s accomodate 75 C class seats and only 35 in Y. Quite a number.

[Edited 2006-11-10 18:47:53]

User currently offlineWorkhorse From France, joined Jul 2005, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 15):
Not a big plane, mind you, but LX's A319s accomodate 75 C class seats and only 35 in Y. Quite a number.

Yes, but those are "convertible" economy-business seats, aren't they?

That means, they are able to accomodate up to 75 business (and thus reduce economy to 35), but if they don't, they convert most of those C seats in Y.

BTW, does anybody know if LX is going to install new seats (like in A320) on their 319s and 321s as well?

[Edited 2006-11-10 19:38:49]

User currently offlineJammin From India, joined Nov 2006, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6149 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
It would be crual and unusual punishment or a violation of the Geneva Convention to house people in normal Steerage for 18+ hours.

True, true. Maybe there should be a rule that 17+ hr flights should have an expanded economy section at the minimum. But, there's quite a few routes creeping up to that limit with regular economy: CX's LAX-HKG (14.5 hrs, did that in cattle class and biz, flight wasn't bad up front), all the Indian non-stops from the US, the US-Australia flights, US-South Africa flight... How cruel are these airlines?  biggrin 



Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind.
User currently offlineTommyBP251b From Germany, joined Apr 2006, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6096 times:

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 13):
I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.

Did we all miss something with Varig owning A 340-600? Or how did you mean it?

Regards Tom



Tom from Cologne
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5678 times:

LX is poo anyway, for me it's no longer the national carrier... it's LH property, if LH wants, they install the new type of seats.

User currently offlineZRHnerd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 16):
Yes, but those are "convertible" economy-business seats, aren't they?

correct.

Quoting Workhorse (Reply 16):
does anybody know if LX is going to install new seats (like in A320) on their 319s and 321s as well?

yes, they will, if not either of the two types have them already.

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 19):
LX is poo anyway, for me it's no longer the national carrier... it's LH property, if LH wants, they install the new type of seats.

What an intelligent post, thansk for your thoughtful contribution.  Yeah sure

[Edited 2006-11-10 21:07:02]

User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

Quoting 787A380 (Reply 12):
I remember travelling on a BA 777 from london to Muscat and there was a really small economy section, and a massive club world, there must have been over 60 seats in the Club World cabin. There was a maximum of 15 rows in economy!

A 4-class BA 777-200ER has 48 Club World seats and 122 World Traveller seats. There are also 24 World Traveller Plus seats, as well as either 15 or 16 First Class seats.


User currently offlineSpeedbirdcrew From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 21):
A 4-class BA 777-200ER has 48 Club World seats and 122 World Traveller seats. There are also 24 World Traveller Plus seats, as well as either 15 or 16 First Class seats.

I think its 40 in WTP and 14 in First.


User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5184 times:

Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 13):
I find RG 346 economy section relatively small if you look at the premium and business section.

Varig has no A346... if that's what you meant. But some of Varig's 777 come from BA ( PP-VRC) and they have the small Economy section, the massive Business and a normal First...

This is a pic I took from the back of Economy section:



MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Alonso Pérez Treviño




Less than 25 economy rows.

Cheers!



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5162 times:

I can see being sardined on a 12-14 hour flight in economy and feeling worse for wear at the end of my journey.

However, many European airlines don't have fixed business class seating anymore. All they do is move the partition forward and backward depending on the C load.

On a 2-3 hour flight I think it is ridiculous to pay extra money when the seat with and pitch is the same except that you get a warm sandwich instead of a cold one.


25 RoseFlyer : I believe that United operated 747-200s between JFK and NRT that had more business class seats than economy seats. This also helped avoid payload res
26 Post contains images GBOAC : Most 4-class BA 772s have 48J (Rows 10-15) and 14F. There are 3 (IIRC) 'A Market' 772s with 17F seats - for shorter-range, higher yield routes (think
27 Post contains links and images AsstChiefMark : View Large View MediumPhoto © Jeremy Irish - V1 Aviation Photography Mark
28 LHR777 : Sorry, yes, my mistake. 14F, 48J, 40W and 122M. The A-market aircraft do have 17F. These are G-ZZZA/ZB/ZC. FYI, there are 30W and 177M seats on the h
29 Dambuster : Yours must be better... let's face it, do you sincerely think LX are great with their policies?! IMO, it's nice, but as a Swiss I no longer believe m
30 Vegas005 : Agreed. I love the LX (LH) 8 kilo carry on bag limit, my darn bag is 4 kilos without anything in it! But back on topic, the sliding screen for busine
31 1stfl94 : AF did the same with it's early 744s. Two planes had a larger business class fitted for Japan flights, although they were later reconfigured to a sta
32 Dambuster : Yeah, that's the down part, on the other hand (if it's already the case ) miles & more works in association with all the other airlines of Star Allian
33 Post contains images ZRHnerd : hah three weeks ago i traveled to Finland for a one week stay. The weight of my fully packed sports bag, which i checked in, was 7 kilos. Is your bag
34 Dambuster : Isn't the limit of hand baggage usually 10 kg? Err...I've searched the topics for LX's current probs, and did not find any... I really wouldn't mind t
35 Workhorse : If you do, I would gladly participate too, as LX (with AF and AC) is one of my preferred carriers.
36 ZRHnerd : launch one. I'm really curious what you don't like about LX apart from their marriage with LH.
37 BA : Not really a big plane, but MEA's A321s have just 149 seats in them. I think that's the lowest in the industry. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though
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