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Why Are Fares So Low At PIT?  
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5152 times:
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I am about to move to then YNG area which will give me several aiports to choose from. CAK, CLE, and PIT are all roughly the same distance.

I have been looking at fares on routes that I normally take for business or trips that I am planning for leisure and PIT is significantly cheaper than CAK or CLE on almost (if not every) route. Why is this? FL flies to both CAK and PIT, WN flies to PIT and CLE, B6 of course flies to PIT. So the "Southwest Effect" should not be the difference.

With these low yields it is not wonder PIT sees a lot of Express service, and I also can't see why anyone would want to expand there.

Thoughts and input please!!

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Are you checking after the holidays or what? Where are you flying to?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5143 times:

I dunno, my firm just paid roughly $2000 for some unrestricted coach tickets for me ex-DCA and BWI. I think it depends on the market, and I will bet you'll find the same price differences at other similar airports.

User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5101 times:
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Yeah after the holidays. I was just randomly searching some dates in Jan and Feb. I was looking at routes such as PIT-SFO, PIT-SNA, PIT-MIA and some others.

User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1274 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

One word....Competition. PIT is served by FL, B6, WN and USA3000. There are more LCC's there than in the other markets you mentioned. In addition, US still has a significant presence there and for a second tier city there is a good amount of service from AA, DL, NW, UA and others.

User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5070 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 3):
Yeah after the holidays. I was just randomly searching some dates in Jan and Feb. I was looking at routes such as PIT-SFO, PIT-SNA, PIT-MIA and some others.

Well, cheaper fares are helping Pittsburgh's O&D numbers increase. You are making this seem like a negative thing for you and the rest of the city.

Quoting ATLAaron (Thread starter):
With these low yields it is not wonder PIT sees a lot of Express service, and I also can't see why anyone would want to expand there.

HELLO, no airlines are expanding PIT! Republic Airways is however opening up heavy maintenance for the E70 and E75.


Glad to hear you will be choosing PIT for your travel needs!



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5048 times:
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Quoting CentPIT (Reply 5):
Well, cheaper fares are helping Pittsburgh's O&D numbers increase. You are making this seem like a negative thing for you and the rest of the city.

No of course not, it is great for me and other travelers. I was just curious why it would be much cheaper than CLE or CAK.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 5):
Well, cheaper fares are helping Pittsburgh's O&D numbers increase. You are making this seem like a negative thing for you and the rest of the city.

Yeah. When US had the hub, they drove people away to places like CLE for cheaper fares. High fares=low O&D, low fares=high O&D, as people prefer the cheaper fares when flying point2point as well as connections.

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 5):
HELLO, no airlines are expanding PIT! Republic Airways is however opening up heavy maintenance for the E70 and E75.

I thought they opened up that base already if I remember correctly in that Post-Gazette article from last year. Republic was opening a F/A pilots and mx base at the airside terminal. They have 175 employees now and plan to add more, which is what PIT really needs. As of now, I am a Republic Airlines cheerleader!!!! I will be an even bigger one if they put an E70 or 175 on PIT-MDT now Big grin



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5015 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 6):
No of course not, it is great for me and other travelers. I was just curious why it would be much cheaper than CLE or CAK.

Are you going to be using PIT for your travel needs? I sure hope you can. Traveling through Pittsburgh International is a great experience.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5008 times:
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Quoting CentPIT (Reply 8):
Are you going to be using PIT for your travel needs?

Out of CLE, CAK, and PIT I will more than likely just use whoever is cheapest. Which so far looks like PIT. Plus I certainly will go where I can get on a mainline flight if possible, which certainly is not CAK!

Never been to PIT airport so I am excited. I have a trip booked out of there in Jan on AA PIT-DFW-MCO and back. Does AA mainline have anything going into PIT?


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 9):
Never been to PIT airport so I am excited. I have a trip booked out of there in Jan on AA PIT-DFW-MCO and back. Does AA mainline have anything going into PIT?

Unfortunately, they pulled all mainline a while back. I believe PIT-DFW is a CR7. I think this was one of the last AA mainline flights to be dropped. It was either this one or PIT-JFK. Both were MD80 flights I believe. Still, I hope this doesn't steer you away from PIT...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2676 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
It was either this one or PIT-JFK.

AA doesn't fly PIT-JFK. Eagle flies to LGA, and if AA has ever operated mainline to New York City, it hasn't been in recent times.


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 11):
AA doesn't fly PIT-JFK. Eagle flies to LGA, and if AA has ever operated mainline to New York City, it hasn't been in recent times.

I didn't say it did "now." I was just not sure of which route was the last one to have an MD80 on it. Apparently from your reply, it must have been DFW service that was the last AA MD80 standing in PIT before that one went...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
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Well AA doesn't fly to CAK at all and CLE only sees Eagle also, so looks like if I want to fly AA it will be Eagle. I am not a big fan of US but I know PIT sees some mainline from UA, CO and DL.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 13):
I am not a big fan of US but I know PIT sees some mainline from UA, CO and DL.

UA: A319 and 733s to DEN and ORD...
CO: I think a 737 to IAH, but not sure
DL: MD88s to ATL



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4876 times:

This is a question that really makes me scratch my head. CLE/CAK is basically served by the same suite of low cost carriers and basically has the same sucky rust belt economy, yet fares are dramatically larger to leisure destinations. I'm trying to go to Caribbean in the spring and fares are $800+ from CLE/CAK to any decent island, vs. $500 and change from PIT!! That's some difference and I don't get it. Maybe the lake effect snow is that much worse here in CLE so people are itching that much more to go warm in the winter.

User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 15):
I'm trying to go to Caribbean in the spring and fares are $800+ from CLE/CAK to any decent island, vs. $500 and change from PIT!! That's some difference and I don't get it. Maybe the lake effect snow is that much worse here in CLE so people are itching that much more to go warm in the winter.

Does USA3000 fly to a CLE-area airport? They have bilboards all over PIT advertising PIT-CUN for like $79 one way...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4852 times:
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Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 16):
Does USA3000 fly to a CLE-area airport?

Yes they fly to CLE.

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 15):
This is a question that really makes me scratch my head.

I am glad you agree with me!


User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

I'd agree with Flaps. Since US Airways has pulled back, Pittsburgh has become more competitive. I can't speak for CLE or CAK, but there are a few options on most routes from PIT. I won't be complaining.

I wonder if ExpressJet's, err... Continental's hub has anything to do with CLE's fares.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 14):
UA: A319 and 733s to DEN and ORD...
CO: I think a 737 to IAH, but not sure
DL: MD88s to ATL

Yeah, DL has thrown in a MD-88 to CVG, as well. I believe it becomes a 737-800 in January.

Continental has three 737's to IAH, two -500's and a -700, plus two ERJ's.

United has actually deployed more and more Express on the ORD-PIT route lately. They have four CRJ-700's and three 737's right now. A few summers ago it was 7 mainline. Two 737's on the DEN-PIT route.

Northwest is sending all mainline to PIT (DC-9's of all sizes), except for the MEM flights.


User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 13):
Well AA doesn't fly to CAK at all and CLE only sees Eagle also, so looks like if I want to fly AA it will be Eagle. I am not a big fan of US but I know PIT sees some mainline from UA, CO and DL.

Rumor has it that AA will bringing back mainline service PIT-DFW. I heard this was to occur in mid January.

AA: All Express service from PIT-DFW/ORD/LGA/MIA.

NW: All mainline service from PIT-DTW/MSP. All Express service from PIT-MEM.

CO: Mainline from PIT-IAH. Express service from PIT-IAH/EWR/CLE.

DL: Mainline from PIT-ATL/CVG. Express from PIT-ATL/CVG/JFK.

UA: Mainline from PIT-ORD/DEN. Express from PIT-ORD/IAD.

US: Mainline from PIT-BOS/CLT/DCA/DEN/FLL/LAS/LAX/LGA/MCO/MIA/ORD/PBI/PHL/PHX/RSW/SFO/TPA/CUN/SJU.

I think you will enjoy your PIT experience, and will hopefully return.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

Quoting N670UW (Reply 18):
Since US Airways has pulled back, Pittsburgh has become more competitive. I can't speak for CLE or CAK, but there are a few options on most routes from PIT. I won't be complaining.

Yeah, I quit my complaining of the PIT pulldown already. WN and B6, and numerous other LCCs have flooded the gates after US dehubbed. Flights may have come down at PIT, but more importantly did fares...

Quoting N670UW (Reply 18):
DL has thrown in a MD-88 to CVG, as well. I believe it becomes a 737-800 in January.

I thought they already tried a 737 earlier this year and it didn't not do well. If they do throw on a 738, I wish it well!

Quoting N670UW (Reply 18):
Continental has three 737's to IAH, two -500's and a -700, plus two ERJ's.

Wow... I didn't realize they had that much mainline. What ERJs do they run? 145?

Quoting N670UW (Reply 18):
Northwest is sending all mainline to PIT (DC-9's of all sizes), except for the MEM flights.

Yeah, I saw that when I looked up flypittsburgh.com. I happened to see a DTW flight that appeared to be mainline "it was 3 digits" as opposed to flights like 5xxx or 7xxx like the ones to MEM. It would be nice to see NW fly an ERJ to IND, but I believe Republic flies enough of them out there for US Express, and they are E70s and soon-to-be E175s!!!



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 19):
Rumor has it that AA will bringing back mainline service PIT-DFW. I heard this was to occur in mid January.

Just a rumor for now. Most employees dont see this happening even though the flights are full all the time. They just dont want to hire the people I guess.

As far as Republic, I just read on flypittsburgh.com that the are adding a bunch of flights next year. Heres the article...

Republic Airways has major operations at Pittsburgh International Airport where it operates an aircraft maintenance facility and its subsidiaries currently operate 17 daily departures as US Airways Express. The company currently employs more than 175 aviation professionals in the Pittsburgh area. Beginning in February 2007 Republic’s Republic Airlines subsidiary will operate 86-passenger Embraer 175 aircraft out of Pittsburgh International Airport as US Airways Express.

You can read the entire thing at www.flypittsburgh.com then click on news and then select current press releases.



Pittsburgh International Airport lover
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
It would be nice to see NW fly an ERJ to IND, but I believe Republic flies enough of them out there for US Express, and they are E70s and soon-to-be E175s!!!

PIT-IND (1x DH8 and 3x E70)


If this route goes to E75, I think it will lose a frequency.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4738 times:
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I can't imagine AA bringing mainline back for just one flight. Seems they would rather make stations all AE rather than just have a small amount of mainline. So that area consists of:

CLE - ALL AE
CAK - NO AA/AE Service
PIT - ALL AE


User currently offlineLuketenley From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Yeah I dont see them bringing it back. Would be nice though. They are doing well with the AE service.


Pittsburgh International Airport lover
25 MasseyBrown : Hmm... I tried booking a PIT-CUN one-week round trip in February and the best fare I could get from USA3000 was $468 - from US it was $588. FWIW, the
26 HPAEAA : hmm... well so they get a nice mx base, but there hasn't been a increase in flights..... Nope. Nothing on the books to add later... CLE DFW has been
27 Steeler83 : And there is also my thread, "Republic growing PIT." Yeah, I think you're right about that, or perhaps they'll repace an E70 with an E75. I don't thi
28 ATLAaron : Steeler83 and CentPIT, (anyone else is welcome to chime in too please) I sent you both PM's asking if you thought $302 RT PIT-SFO was a bad price. How
29 N670UW : I think it's fair. It's not a great fare, but I've seen it higher, as well. I think it's a pretty standard, middle-of-the-road coach fare. It depends
30 Post contains images Steeler83 : I don't think it's a bad fare either. Considering that US charged that one way... TO PHL!!! That is $151 one way to LAX. I have seen lower fares to C
31 ATLAaron : I think I'll go with it. It is on DL btw not US.
32 Fokker Lover : What part of Youngstown are you planning on living in? I see that you aren't old enough to worry about school districts. The drive to Pit is a whole l
33 Luketenley : I paid $250 September of 05 round trip on American. So I think this is rather fair. Could be better but is still fair.
34 ATLAaron : We got an apartment in Boardman. I am 25 and married so school districts are a couple years away from being a concern. I have a work from home job so
35 CentPIT : That is exactly what I said! Republic is opening a rather large MX base, not adding flights? Why do people do what you do? I would personally wait a
36 Steeler83 : I am not really sure of what part of Youngstown Boardman is on, but taking the OH/PA Turnpike to PA 60 does seem to be the way to go. That is what I
37 ATLAaron : Boardman is next to Canfield if you know where that is. It would be West of Youngstown. Both CVG and ATL were available for the same price.
38 Fokker Lover : You could do that. It might be a little quicker. I personally continue South on 7 (Market St.) to 14 in Columbiana. Left on 14 takes you to Rte 51 Ch
39 ATLAaron : Been there! And yes it is very good and reasonable. My apartment will be basically right behind there.
40 Fokker Lover : I know where you're at. You can take Tippecanoe to Western Reserve Rd. then to Market Street. Turn Right on Market. The turnpike is about 1/2 a mile f
41 Post contains images Steeler83 : Ah, then it would work for ya... I never thought about this possibility. Sure, whatever you can do to get out of paying toles!
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