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Rumor: UPS Purchasing Air Canada's 767s  
User currently offlineBrowntailwhale From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 213 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8233 times:

Rumor has it, according to the UPS aquisition manager, is that UPS is purchasing all of Air Canada's 767-300s. How many do they have? The total number for UPS is buying is 35.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8210 times:

Airfleets lists the 767 fleet as 33 763s and 11 762s. If true, this would be quite a shot in the arm for the 767BCF. AFAIK, only the 763s are convertible through the Boeing Converted freighter program though.

Here's the link:
http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Air%20Canada.htm



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

Their site indicates 33 763 and 12 762's

There is an Investor prospectus out on the web that may have more info.


User currently offlineSalomon From Canada, joined Jun 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8101 times:

I don't think Air Canada owns all their 763s. Many are leased from GECAS, Debis or CIT...

However, i'm pretty sure all the 767-200s are owned.



Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
User currently offlineACVitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7877 times:

Considering all the money that just went into the interior updates that seems to be quite a waste.....

User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7842 times:

Quoting Salomon (Reply 3):
However, i'm pretty sure all the 767-200s are owned.

But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

You can lay this rumour to rest.

Virtually all the Air Canada 763s are recent-vintage -ER models. Particularly as used airframes and/or short-term dry leases, these airframes are in high demand and good ones like these are extremely hard to get. Unless UPS is completely desperate for lift, which I don't believe that it is, these aircraft should be worth far more as pax birds.

The 762s, on the other hand, could be candidates to go to DHL/ABXAir as cargo conversions.


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7801 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion

That's pretty much what cargo carriers want, though we are seeing moves in the past couple of years to newer aircraft.

The 762, even 20 y/o ones, would be great DC-8 replacements.

M


User currently offlineBrowntailwhale From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7772 times:

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 6):
You can lay this rumour to rest.

Virtually all the Air Canada 763s are recent-vintage -ER models. Particularly as used airframes and/or short-term dry leases, these airframes are in high demand and good ones like these are extremely hard to get. Unless UPS is completely desperate for lift, which I don't believe that it is, these aircraft should be worth far more as pax birds.

This rumor comes from JB, who is the UPS manager in charge of aircraft acquisitions. He stated that they were Air Canada 767-300s.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7685 times:

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 7):
That's pretty much what cargo carriers want, though we are seeing moves in the past couple of years to newer aircraft.

Some of these AC-762s gather dust for 5 years now, unwanted by the whole world. Many agemates are being cut up.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7237 times:

One of the AC 762s (C-GAVA) is the Iraqi Government plane , which was at Orly last week.I checked the plane and still found the ACA plate above the first door.......staying the plane is the property of ACA !!!!!!!!!!!!! No Iraqi plate traces ..................

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7043 times:

I thought that the AC B-767-300ERs were going to get winglets, as part of the buy of the B-777-200LRs and B-787-900s from Boeing. I also thought the B-767-200ERs were all going to be scrapped in the next few years. So, are these not going to happen?

User currently offlineKearney From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

Id think they are to old for it to be economical to convert them to freighters. Correct me if im wrong arent they averageing about 25 years now? And would a 25 year old plane be worth converting to freighter... well it is a boeing!

User currently offlineGalapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

Quoting Kearney (Reply 12):
well it is a boeing!

But imagine if they were McDonnel Douglas


User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12421 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5905 times:
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The question is when are these to be converted to freighters?

If its two or three years after 787 delivery is initiated... that's a different market. If they are recent vintage 763ER's... 20010 through 2012 would be the time to get rid of these birds. Otherwise, AC won't get much for them in resale.  Sad

UPS has shown a willingness to buy aircraft far in the future. I doubt AC would want to get rid of any prior to the 787. But as soon as the 787's start to roll in... Do recall AC has some 2010 787 delivery slots. We'll think of the 767 quite differently then.


http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q2/nr_050425h.html

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5201 times:

Does this signal the end for the DC8? They have 37 DC8s, and they are looking for 35 more 763ERs...  Sad

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
The question is when are these to be converted to freighters?

exactly. this is a "we have dibs" statement. AC isn't going to turn over 33 763ERs next month. UPS will convert 1 at a time, over time.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

According to the AC IPO prospectus, page 36, the future 767 deployment is as follows:

767-200/200ER - 12 today, one retiring by year end, 2 more go in 2007, one more in 2008, and six go sometime in the 2009-2012 timeframe.

767-300ER - 33 today, one leaving in 2007, 3 more leaving in 2008

Wildcard possibility - AC converts its two 777-200LRF into passenger 777s and drops more (2-4?) 763s in 2009. That is a distinct possibility. You read it here first.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 14):
I doubt AC would want to get rid of any prior to the 787.

Absolutely correct. They have a shortage of widebody aircraft already and even with the new orders coming in, they will all be kept busy for the next few years until there are enough 777/787's in the fleet..



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 16):
767-300ER - 33 today, one leaving in 2007, 3 more leaving in 2008



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
They have a shortage of widebody aircraft already

Obviously, the shortage doesn't outweigh the lack of desire to retire old aircraft or not renew leases on old aircraft.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4587 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 18):
Obviously, the shortage doesn't outweigh the lack of desire to retire old aircraft or not renew leases on old aircraft

Apparently not. I was typing my post as Sebring wrote his, and I defer to him on all matters concerning fleet plans at AC.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21417 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 19):
Apparently not. I was typing my post as Sebring wrote his, and I defer to him on all matters concerning fleet plans at AC.

But the bulk will remain until the 787s really start rolling in. And UPS will take them as they get them, if that's who's getting them. But for UPS, it must be nice to know they will all come from one airline who has a consistent maintenance standard, so they will have a "unified fleet" of 33 763Fs to complement their previous fleet of 33.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4305 times:

I think UPS operates GE engined B767s; would that indicate that they would only acquire AC's GE powered B767s?

AC's plan was to slowly replace its B763 with B787s. The 767s did not receive B777 type overhead bins nor were they equipped with winglets as originally planned. It would make sense for AC not to invest so much money into a short-term benefit. Perhaps AC may firm some of its B787 options to allow more B767s to leave the fleet.

What happened to the possibility of some B762s going to RG?

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

RE: UPS Says Delay Of Superjumbo Jet A 'major' Concern (by UPS Pilot Oct 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3029484&s=ups+pILOT#ID3029484


Reply number 41

"ups has already done that. The 757-767-A300. Again Fleet planning isn't something that you say hey we need to go out and buy some airplanes today because we ran out. The 747 classics are replaced by the MD-11's we have bought and have more coming. Fleet plans right now are that we are not buying anything smaller than a 767 anytime soon. We are looking at 767-300 passenger to freighter conversions right now."

From October 8th  Wink


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

While still a rumour, this makes sense in several ways:
1. AC once sold 33 of its then 39-strong 722 fleet to Fedex, for delivery as its 320 fleet was added. AC seemed to manage avoiding the beginning of the used 722 glut with this sale to Fedex, and hence may wish to do the same with their 763ER fleet prior to massive industry-wide 763 retirements in the early 2010 decade.
2. UPS still operates a large fleet of DC-8-70's which will need replacing. The logical candidates are used 752, 763 and A306 aircraft. Used 752's will command a premium now that Fedex has indicated its plan to buy 90, while the A306 is not available in large numbers, which leaves 763 fleets.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3830 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
But most of these -200s are ca. 20 year-old high-cycle aircraft, hardly worthy to throw money away for them for a conversion.

Actually, freight carriers don't really give much of a hoot about high cycle aircraft. In general, freight aircraft see relatively few cycles as compares to passenger carriers.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 16):
767-200/200ER - 12 today, one retiring by year end, 2 more go in 2007, one more in 2008, and six go sometime in the 2009-2012 timeframe.

That still leaves 2 aircraft

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 23):
while the A306 is not available in large numbers

American and Lufthansa's eventual retirement of the type will tell a different story. Still, UPS, though their essentially forced A380 order, has shown that they are not particularly interested in more A306's



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Sebring : That's correct. That's what the chart shows.
26 Yyz717 : AC recently retired a 767-209ER leaving 11 active 762's: 1 -233, 1 -275, 1 -209ER, and 8 -233ER's.
27 N1120A : So, the Gimli Glider is the last remaining -233?
28 Yyz717 : Correct.
29 N1120A : Are they just planning on using her as a museum piece?
30 Wjcandee : To the extent that the rumour is that UPS is going to enter into some kind of MOU or LOI or even a firm contract to purchase 763s from AC as they are
31 Post contains images AirCanada014 : I think AC should put the Glimli Glider in the museum. That a/c made history. Aviation Museum would be nice .
32 Kearney : Yeah its so weird that that thing is still around. When i get a block at work and im working 604, it reminds me how old these birds (767's) are.
33 LongHauler : I agree ... but where would you put it? Rockcliffe? Maybe Winnipeg the WCAM? But, its a big plane, is there even room?
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