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TWA AirTran Merger!  
User currently offlineSnn2003 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 299 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

I was searching through the archives and found a post dated June 16th 2000. Does anyone know what happened?

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/241398
Gage


One way, IAH-RTB please! No return ticket required.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

Quoting Snn2003 (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what happened?

Yep AA bought TWA!!  Wink



Blue Skies Ahead!!
User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8523 times:




if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3314 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8522 times:

That was about the time that TW launced a code-share program with HP. Just as it was to go into effect, AA bought them.


.......
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8479 times:

Well, apparently nothing every materialized between Airtran and TWA. I kinda wish it did happen. Airtran would've been no more as TWA would most definitely have been the name to be kept. TWA would still be in the sky today probably. I wonder if that would've involved something along the lines we saw with US and HP. A financially crippled airline seeking a partnership with a LCC... TWA (financially crippled and now long since bankrupt) and FL, the LCC. I guess it did not fly with the judge, or one or both parties simply walked away from the merger. I know that DL stepped in then balked in 2001, which pretty much sealed the fate for TWA...


Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineWN230 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 1):
AA bought TWA!!

^ thats what happened

WN230



Judas Priest North American tour in '08 . . . cannot wait!!!
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2400 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8276 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 4):
Well, apparently nothing every materialized between Airtran and TWA. I kinda wish it did happen. Airtran would've been no more as TWA would most definitely have been the name to be kept. TWA would still be in the sky today probably

Not to mention some commonality in their fleets with the 717.



There's nothing quite like a trijet.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

AirTran looked at TWA's books and determined that they couldn't afford the airline. AirTran at the time had a large debt payment looming on the horizon and really couldn't afford to take on any additional debt (They ended up getting the debt payment financed via Boeing Capital, who for a time held a stake in the company until AirTran bought the shares back.). Even if TWA had filed for Chapter 11 prior to a merger with AirTran (Which what happened when the AA/TW merger was announced), who knows if the combined carrier would have even survived post-9/11.

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7983 times:

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 1):
Yep AA bought TWA!!

AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.  irked 


User currently offlineWsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7892 times:

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 8):
AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.

It depends on what side of the fence you are standing on. I worked for AA and was furloughed while ex TWA employee's continued to work.

Both AA and TWA employee's suffered as a direct result. Personally I don't think you have a reason to be upset. When Tower Air went belly up I was on the unemployed line, AA saved many jobs by purchasing TWA.



Blue Skies Ahead!!
User currently offlineANNOYEDFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7799 times:

Another AA/TWA thread! We all choose who we want to work for. Some people choose AA, TWA, CO, & NWA. It's unfortunate that alot of people did lose their jobs but they were (sorry to say it) dumb enough to stay. The airline had NO money, barely a viable fleet, was still cutting INT'L routes while others added. Yet people chose to stay and wait it out. There are alot of AA Flight Attendants out there and others that will never hit AA property again because of the TWA buy out and them being placed BELOW the TWA people.

I work with this one women who was a AA FA and after 9/11 and the BUY OUT she was placed BELOW the TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA, yet they were all now senior to her. Due to that she was furloughed almost immediately recalled briefly then gone again and only hit the bottom of the list because of the TWA people. She would be flying again today at AA if it wasen't for that buy out and yes she is bitter because she choose AA they chose her and now she'll never work get her job back. So seriously lets get over the TWA pitty party... It's over and done with.



"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7712 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):

I hear ya man, but the sting here in STL was a lot more painful.


User currently offlineWsan581 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7670 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 11):
I hear ya man, but the sting here in STL was a lot more painful.

How many of your TWA buddies are still working?



Blue Skies Ahead!!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31434 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7649 times:
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Who determined the AA/TWA FA seniority merging? The airlines, or AFA?

I would expect it was AFA since it was in the union's interest to keep the most senior (and highest/longest dues-paying) members on the job. And integrating the TW FAs at their seniority level would keep labor costs higher since they could not furlough them before lower-seniority/lower-waged AA FAs so I don't expect AA wanted to do it that way if they could avoid it.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9826 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 8):
AA screwed TWA would be a more accurate statement.

AA saved more than many jobs when purchasing TWA, it probably saved all the jobs. If AA had not purchased TWA, the carrier would have probably ran out of cash and not resumed operation in the days after 9/11. There were rumors that US Airways was low on cash and might not be able to start up again after 9/11, but it did resume operations. TWA was in far worse condition and filed for bankruptcy in April 2001, so without AA purchasing TWA, all those jobs would have pretty much instantly been gone in September of 2001.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSnn2003 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
Another AA/TWA thread! We all choose who we want to work for. Some people choose AA, TWA, CO, & NWA. It's unfortunate that alot of people did lose their jobs but they were (sorry to say it) dumb enough to stay. The airline had NO money, barely a viable fleet, was still cutting INT'L routes while others added. Yet people chose to stay and wait it out. There are alot of AA Flight Attendants out there and others that will never hit AA property again because of the TWA buy out and them being placed BELOW the TWA people.

I work with this one women who was a AA FA and after 9/11 and the BUY OUT she was placed BELOW the TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA, yet they were all now senior to her. Due to that she was furloughed almost immediately recalled briefly then gone again and only hit the bottom of the list because of the TWA people. She would be flying again today at AA if it wasen't for that buy out and yes she is bitter because she choose AA they chose her and now she'll never work get her job back. So seriously lets get over the TWA pitty party... It's over and done with.

It was not ment to be an AA/TW thred, I wanted more info on TW and airtran. Thanks to everyone who responded.



One way, IAH-RTB please! No return ticket required.
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7299 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14):
AA saved more than many jobs when purchasing TWA, it probably saved all the jobs.

There are not many original TWA employees left here. Mostly the older folks who are on the top of the senority list are the only ones left. Most of the other survivors were sent their "thank you notices" when AA slashed services at STL.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9826 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 16):
There are not many original TWA employees left here.

While 1,500 of 24,000 is bad, it's better than what would have happened after 9/11. They would have gone from 24,000 to zero in three days. At least there was severance and it wasn't a sudden shock. I pity the TWA employees that gave their lives to the airline, but the company was dying. AA laid them to rest. 9/11 would have shot them in the head.

Airtran probably could have saved the airline and most if not all of those people would still have jobs, but it is unfortunate that Airtran could not have afforded TWA. Many think that TWA had more debt than assets and that it was a bad move for AA in all ways with the exception that AA removed a big competitor. TWA was a financial disaster that is lucky to have not disappeared 10 years earlier than it did.

[Edited 2006-11-12 21:31:35]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7231 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 17):
While 1,500 of 24,000 is bad, it's better than what would have happened after 9/11. They would have gone from 24,000 to zero in three days.

If the merger hadn't happened, it would have been before 9/11. We had our airline contingency plan on the table ready to go because we were told that TWA would have folded within two weeks of the announcement date if no merger occured.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 7):

AirTran knew TWA was in trouble and after assessing that buying them out just would have been feasible, they became interested in cherry picking what they wanted of the airline as in gates at airports, 717's, routes, etc.

The St. Louis operation would have have suffered the same fate it eventually did with the AA take over, same with a great deal of the employees.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9826 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 19):
The St. Louis operation would have have suffered the same fate it eventually did with the AA take over, same with a great deal of the employees.

Actually, I think that STL would be kept as more of a hub than what AA did. Maybe not 800 flights per day, but probably more than the 300 flights (most of which are regional jets or props) that STL now gets from AA. Airtran was expanding and might not have fired anywhere near the number of employees that AA did. AA only has about 6% of the TWA workforce. Airtran isn't shrinking and hasn't, so they probably would have been better from an employee standpoint.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9272 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6):
Not to mention some commonality in their fleets with the 717.

Oh yeah... the MD80s and the MD95/717  Smile

That would've been a match made in heaven if you ask me...

What did TWA's ops look like in ATL or MCO? Were they pretty big? I suppose that TWA would have gotten a hub at ATL, and perhaps a focus city at MCO. I suppose that ATL would have been an int'l gateway for TWA, in addition to JFK and STL...

Then again, there is DL... in both ATL and JFK... now anyway...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 10):
TWA FA'S who NEVER worked a DAY at AA

And never will because their time of recall is about to expire or has already.


User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 14):
it probably saved all the jobs. of 2001.

I have friends who were pilots, flight attendants, and customer service agents with TWA and all of them were either furloughed or were given such poor seniority (a 1968 hire at TWA given an April 2001 DOH) that they quit.

The only reason American did what they did was in response to the proposed United-USAir merger that the DOJ shot down.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 21):

What did TWA's ops look like in ATL or MCO? Were they pretty big? I suppose that TWA would have gotten a hub at ATL, and perhaps a focus city at MCO. I suppose that ATL would have been an int'l gateway for TWA, in addition to JFK and STL...

In the early 90s, after Eastern folded, TWA established a mini-hub @ ATL on Concourse C.

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/TWA%20Compressed/TWmap9308.jpg

It was short-lived, as several LCC startups (Valujet, Air South, and Kiwi International) and the 800 lb. Gorilla known as Delta really made a dent in their attempt to do something out of ATL.


25 LASOctoberB6 : would someone please inform me as in to what TWA did that was so great and why? i was naive at the time it folded (to prove: i thought TWA was based i
26 DL Widget Head : I don't remember this. What did DL do or not do?
27 Post contains links Cha747 : Hmmm...how should I put this in 2006 terms.... Pan Am = Lexus TWA = Infiniti TWA, once owned by Howard Hughes, was a pioneer of its time. In its heyd
28 LASOctoberB6 : thank you damn that Carl Urchin! err.. Irchin.[Edited 2006-11-13 09:00:50]
29 Quickmover : Interesting about the TWA ATL mini hub. I can't quite make out all of the cities on that map, but I do remember they served most of Florida, PHL, MSY,
30 Boeing Nut : Nicely put sir.
31 AirTran717 : I was an employee of AirTran at the time of this proposed merger. AirTran would have been the name to be kept, as TWA was about to liquidate. We reall
32 Travatl : Actually I don't believe that consideration actually ever progressed this far. If I remember right (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), one of TWA's u
33 Steeler83 : Someone one here brought it up, or did I confuse this with PanAm and Delta?
34 STLGph : AirTran wasn't interested in any "baggage"...i.e. Trans States Airlines, regional carriers, etc., and wasn't interested in any additional expense to
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