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Three More A340 For Swiss Confirmed  
User currently offlineSr176 From Switzerland, joined Feb 2001, 409 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11645 times:

Swiss confirmes that they will take over three more A340, two coming from OS and one coming from AC. Two of those aircraft will be used to server more destinations.

Here is the link:

http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/about-s...iss/sw-nw-pr-press-releases-06.htm

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11603 times:

Thats cool. Maybe they will announce some interesting new routes. Are they getting the A343 from OS?? i am assuming yes.

I know OS has 2 A342 and 2 A343. I am wondering who is getting the 2 A342s?



come fly with me
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11574 times:

good news, I can't start looking at LX A343's again in Hong Kong!!

User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1369 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11534 times:

Isn't the French Air Force taking the two OS A340-200?
I know one has already been handed over, not sure about the other.
Or are they further examples that OS has to get rid of?
OS is also giving away the 4 A330-200s and they will remain with few 767s and 777s.

Good for Swiss

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11413 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 1):
I know OS has 2 A342 and 2 A343.

Not anymore. Now, it's only one and two respectively.

Quoting Steman (Reply 3):
Isn't the French Air Force taking the two OS A340-200?

One is already with'em, and the second one is planned to arrive at the beginning of next year.

Cheers / Ciao

[Edited 2006-11-13 17:49:21]

User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11127 times:

Quoting N754PR (Reply 2):
good news, I can't start looking at LX A343's again in Hong Kong!!

Why again. They never stopped flying to HKG. LX 138 goes daily with A 343 to HKG.


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11105 times:

Why is it that LX are buying second hand??? They have never done that in their history, they who always pruned a young up to date fleet...
Moreover, why have they chosen the A340 as flagship, IIRC the loser in A340 vs 777 is obviously the A340 (plz no A vs B !), I would have said the T7 is a much better aircraft for LX's needs, but I think their all Airbus fleet policy prevented it; well that's what happens when they have such stubborn management and yet they bring in other excuses to justify their poor business...
I apologize if my post was a bit agressive, but these questions were in my mind for a while now, it would be great if someone cleared them out!
Thank you!


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

Quoting Sr176 (Thread starter):
Two of those aircraft will be used to server more destinations.

I am extremely curious which will be these new destinations. Let's guess: more in India, China (PEK, PVG) more in the US (IAD)... or what else?


User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 6):
Why is it that LX are buying second hand??? They have never done that in their history, they who always pruned a young up to date fleet...

As they say on a radio I listen to: "There's always a first time, this is it!"  Wink

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 6):
Moreover, why have they chosen the A340 as flagship, IIRC the loser in A340 vs 777 is obviously the A340 (plz no A vs B !)

No A vs B war? You may have started it yourself, but I won't go further on this. Well, LX is operating an almost all Airbus fleet, with all the advantage it can have. If the A340 was such a looser, there won't be any new order for it! Just like for the MD-11 pax.

And don't forget that Swiss is now owned by Lufthansa which has a, shall we say, rather large Airbus fleet, so we may see there some kind of inspiration.

Cheers.


User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11027 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 6):
Why is it that LX are buying second hand??? They have never done that in their history, they who always pruned a young up to date fleet...
Moreover, why have they chosen the A340 as flagship, IIRC the loser in A340 vs 777 is obviously the A340 (plz no A vs B !), I would have said the T7 is a much better aircraft for LX's needs, but I think their all Airbus fleet policy prevented it; well that's what happens when they have such stubborn management and yet they bring in other excuses to justify their poor business...
I apologize if my post was a bit agressive, but these questions were in my mind for a while now, it would be great if someone cleared them out!
Thank you!

LX doesn't have the money to buy a whole load of brand new 777s. Secondhand A340s aren't the most glamouous plane in the world but they will do the job for Swiss.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6716 posts, RR: 77
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10983 times:

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 9):
Secondhand A340s aren't the most glamouous plane in the world but they will do the job for Swiss.

Yes, and after refurbishment no passenger will be able to distinguish them from the other models.


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10972 times:

I'd say, it's logical, but before all this, didn't they realize when they wanted to change the 743s that there were some nice T7s?

User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10913 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 11):
I'd say, it's logical, but before all this, didn't they realize when they wanted to change the 743s that there were some nice T7s?

Swissair wanted to replace the 743s by A340-600 (Swissair was even one of the launch customers ; the 346s in question are currently flying with South African). They wanted a far bigger capacity than the 777 offered at the time...

Just after his creation, the new Swiss national carrier decided to reconsider the order and finally to go to smaller capacity with A343.



[Edited 2006-11-13 19:59:35]


Swissair forever !
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10816 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 6):
I would have said the T7 is a much better aircraft for LX's needs

I don't think so. The same pilots can fly the 320 family, the 332 and 343. All together they will have at least 51 frames (28 320 family, 11 332 and 12
343).


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10736 times:

Yeah, it's starting to make sense...

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 12):
They wanted a far bigger capacity than the 777 offered at the time...

what about the 773ER? I thought it has more capacity than the A346... like the 773ER has a typical 3 class of 386 pax vs 370 in the A346, tell me if I'm wrong.
Also, do you have an idea of what might be the future of the LX fleet? I mean obviously Boeing has some very attractive models now, 787, 748, 777 etc... I couldn't say the same about Airbus with the A380 problems and the A350XWB which is a redesign, (doesn't seem to dangerous to the 787, could harm the T7 though) I dunno, but it's more or less obvious that Boeing has the advantage...


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10694 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 14):
what about the 773ER? I thought it has more capacity than the A346.

When the former Swissair (co)launched the 340-600 the 773 did not yet fly and they had already 332.


User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 881 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10664 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 14):
what about the 773ER? I thought it has more capacity than the A346... like the 773ER has a typical 3 class of 386 pax vs 370 in the A346, tell me if I'm wrong.
Also, do you have an idea of what might be the future of the LX fleet? I mean obviously Boeing has some very attractive models now, 787, 748, 777 etc... I couldn't say the same about Airbus with the A380 problems and the A350XWB which is a redesign, (doesn't seem to dangerous to the 787, could harm the T7 though) I dunno, but it's more or less obvious that Boeing has the advantage...

IIRC, the 346 was available before the 773ER. And more importantly, it shared crewing comonalities with the 332s. The 343 was a good switch. With fairly small fleets, this seems to make sense to me. Although, you may not like the 330s, either. Seems a bit far fetched to me that the 7488 is a "very attractive" model and the 350XWB is a redesign. Who cares if it is a redesign. If it makes it a better plane, all the more. What exactly would you call the 748i in whatever form it takes today?

Cheers.


User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10648 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 14):
Yeah, it's starting to make sense...

Hey the lausannoix !
Glad to see a Romand here, welcome on board  smirk 

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 14):
what about the 773ER? I thought it has more capacity than the A346... like the 773ER has a typical 3 class of 386 pax vs 370 in the A346, tell me if I'm wrong.

About this I'm pretty agree with ZHR

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 14):
Also, do you have an idea of what might be the future of the LX fleet? I mean obviously Boeing has some very attractive models now, 787, 748, 777 etc... I couldn't say the same about Airbus with the A380 problems and the A350XWB which is a redesign, (doesn't seem to dangerous to the 787, could harm the T7 though) I dunno, but it's more or less obvious that Boeing has the advantage...

I guess the A350XWB (which has completely new design since the XWB extension) would be a good deal for LX to replace their A330/A340
However the average age of their A330 is 6.9 and 3.1 for their A340. So it's not for tomorrow  Smile



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineZRHnerd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

Why are you guys talking about an LX fleet renewal anyways? LX has a fairly young fleet and, given you cut away the RJs which fly for Swiss European, it is actually very young. No need of thinking about any fleet renewal in the distant future.

User currently offlineLsgg From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 577 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10614 times:

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 18):
Why are you guys talking about an LX fleet renewal anyways? LX has a fairly young fleet and, given you cut away the RJs which fly for Swiss European, it is actually very young. No need of thinking about any fleet renewal in the distant future.

Completly agree, and that was not the debate  Smile



Swissair forever !
User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10478 times:

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 18):
Why are you guys talking about an LX fleet renewal anyways?

Ok, don't shoot me! This LX all airbus fleet thing is just killing me that's all... Then after all the A345 would have been the best option had it come on time... anyway, enough said!

Quoting Lsgg (Reply 17):
Hey the lausannoix !
Glad to see a Romand here, welcome on board

Thanks, I'm glad to see a Suisse Romand too!
Other than that, are they A340-313x? Or the 311? Well in any case it's positive news for Swiss, will they bring back some of their services to the middle east such as ZRH-THR? I've heard it was a very profitable route as it connected Iran to the US and that flights were always full out.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 20):
Then after all the A345 would have been the best option had it come on time.

The 340-500??? This is never ever an option for Swiss. It is an ultra long-haul aircraft and Swiss does not have any destination for this aircraft. The 343 makes easily all Swiss destinations. Did you probably mean the 340-600?


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10462 times:

No, the A345, not because of its range but the ideal capacity.

User currently offlineZRHnerd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

Quoting Dambuster (Reply 20):
Then after all the A345 would have been the best option

I disagree, as the A343 is clearly the best option for LX looking at the loading factors, also the A345 with its long range would be overkill as LX dont operate any ultra-long haul flights. But i'd be happy if you prove me wrong.


User currently offlineDambuster From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10423 times:

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 23):
LX dont operate any ultra-long haul flights.

Why is that? Why do they limit their destinations, they could make much more profit if they made connections. I'd perfectly see a GVA-SYD of course with connections from Europe...


25 YULWinterSkies : 1. Not a huge fleet 2. Commonality with the already operated 332 3. Commonality has an importance for a fleet of the size of LX. 4. The LH partnershi
26 Dank : Isn't the 345 only slightly larger than the 343? The 346 is aimed squarely at the 742/743 operators, of which SR was one. cheers.
27 Dambuster : Yeah, it brings us to the big issue: Better economics vs commonality, of which LX chose cockpit commonality...
28 YULWinterSkies : What? With JFK being LX's only long-haul out of GVA, I really doubt such a route will ever happen. And on what metal? Sure an empty 343 has the range
29 YULWinterSkies : This has to do with the position of Europe on a map of the world. The only operated ULH out of Europe are Tahiti, Australia, and New Zealand, and non
30 Dank : I assume you mean fuel efficiency only. There are economic benefits to commonality. cheers.
31 ZRH : The 345 is only a bit larger than the 343, about 15 passengers in a three class configuration. There is no aircraft at the moment which can make GVA-
32 ZRHnerd : Dambuster, get your facts straight. As already said, an A345 cannot do GVA-SYD with an economical payload, furthermore, such a route, even if possible
33 Post contains images Magyarorszag : If you are refering to Dambuster, he's not from Geneva. You've to go a further 60kms north east.
34 Post contains images ZRHnerd : Oh my bad, thanks for the correction. Seeing as he's such a dedicated GVA lover i presumed he was from Geneva, but Lausanne is fine aswell though i d
35 ZRH : here you are wrong, as I know Lausanne is almost exactly 60 km from Geneva.
36 Post contains images ZRHnerd : Oh right, sorry about that
37 Viasa : The next step will be four more A330-200 (former OS aircraft) I think...
38 Post contains images PipoA380 : Actually, if you take west of Geneva and east of Lausanne, I think we get to 60km Yay, the club's getting bigger! Dütschschwytzers, be aware Gotta a
39 AlitaliaMD11 : Actually I believe they are flying with Iberia, EC-IQR, EC-INO, EC-IOB. So with the acquisition of three more A340-300s does this mean that JFK could
40 ZRH : I don't think so. But the second ZRH-JFK flight will now go daily with the second new 332.
41 Post contains images Dambuster : Alright then, let's say the A343s are fine if there's no need for ULH... But the fact one cannot deny is that the 772 is a better aircraft (from the i
42 Post contains images Lsgg : :D My mistake yes sorry : ZS-SNA, ZS-SNB and ZS-SNC ; so only 3 to South African I always saiy this : we will have our A346 in Switzerland !!! Ok now
43 Dambuster : IIRC, they don't have flights to ATL, won't they add a weekly flight? e.g. ZRH-ATL ?
44 ZRH : Not Atlanta. This makes no sense at all because ATL is a Sky Team (Delta) hub and an only transfer destination (not many O/D passengers). Swiss has t
45 Magyarorszag : It doesn't make sense. Outside of what ZRH said, it would be much too expensive to have one flight per week. LX can't afford have a whole flight/cabi
46 WesternA318 : In my wildest dreams, and as much as I would like to see a SLC-ZRH flight with a 332, It would make MUCH more sense to serve LAS, PHX or DEN, due to
47 Post contains images Matterhorn : According to 20Min, a daily newspaper comparable to the Wall Street Journal , new destinations will be in India, China and the USA... This is what ZRH
48 Dambuster : I did not find any response to this, but why did they remove the ZRH-THR flights ? Apparently they were quite profitable since it made ZRH a transfer
49 HB-IWC : Actually, the A346s were destined to be an MD11 replacement. The 5 B743s (3 combi + 2 full pax) were replaced by additional MD11 capacity, as then Sw
50 ZRH : I think by LH. In this case I doubt that it will be PVG because LH has now a second FRA-PVG and a MUC-PVG. In India BOM is also arguable because the
51 Dambuster : I don't think so, LX always had full flights, in fact it was one of their best connections (THR-ZRH- US destinations...) Also they used A332s which w
52 HB-IWC : High load factors do not necessarily entail high yields, and as I said before the route was firmly in the red ever since a one weekly MD11 was deploy
53 MD 11 : "Why is it that LX are buying second hand??? They have never done that in their history, they who always pruned a young up to date fleet..." Thats not
54 Dambuster : Were they brand new? Ok, but then, why are they adding african destinations? What's better (except Johannesburg) in Africa than THR?
55 ZRHnerd : Why would they not take over secondhand equipemnt? I'f I ain't mistaken, the A330 order list is still long, thus not making it possible for any new fr
56 Post contains images ZRH : BTW compliments and thanks to ZRHnerd. He posted already a few weeks ago that Swiss will take three new 343. Most of us had a hard time to believe, be
57 Post contains images ZRHnerd : Thank you Will do as soon as there is anything new worth mentioning. I sure will
58 Post contains images Dambuster : Yeah, especially that A330/340 (A343) ain't the top up to date aircraft anymore, I mean the fact that there are new models coming up like the 787, 748
59 HB-IWC : Other than building frequencies at existing African gateways (NBO DAR will increase from 4 to 5 weekly), I don't think LX will be adding anything to
60 Dambuster : Yeah then IMO their situation is quite a limited one compared to SR... if there are some destinations of the past deleted.
61 Viscount724 : And LX recently added 4 Avro RJ100s previously with BA's regional carrier, BA Connect. Assume you mean a second daily GVA-JFK flight?? I doubt demand
62 Dank : I think the issue comes down mainly to timing and financials. The used aircraft will cost them less. But also, you can't get a new 330 today. But you
63 HB-IWC : I think you are right. Before it went bust Swissair was actively looking into adding a longhaul route from GVA and GVA ORD came out on top of the lis
64 Dambuster : Agreed. Why is that? The only prob with GVA is that there's a sharky ZRH concentrating in longhaul and having probs with their approach over Germany.
65 Post contains images Lsgg : Ok I've got my answer
66 ZRH : In such a small country it is simply not possible to have more than one long-haul hub. And with the short-haul flights the absolute priority must be,
67 Post contains images SwissA330 : What's the Problem with second hand? As long as they are in good condition, why not? Further: The A330's make perfect sense since they are former Sabe
68 HB-IWC : I see your point, but the introduction of the LTU MD11s in the Swissair fleet didn't come without quite some problems. The LTU frames did not have th
69 Post contains images ZRHnerd : iirc, i should get an "a.net member contact" mail, shouldnt I? I still didnt receive anything I can confirm that. The two A332s will be reconfigured
70 HB-IWC : So for the time being, they will be flying with the Sabena cabins, which have a smaller C-class than LX, if I am not mistaken - 42 vs 48 seats.
71 ZRH : I try it again. when you refresh the page there should be on the top a link: "you have a message" or somthing similar. (I don't like to give my email
72 Post contains images LouA340 : LH covers pretty much all the other African destinations very well and so no need for LX to return there.
73 Stoney : @Dambuster: The LX longhaul pilots switch regularly between the A330 and A340, which means that they'll fly to New York with the A330 one day, and ma
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