Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4641 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14332 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2): So KL will then receive six B77W and three more B772ERs?
Nope, they've simply converted three 772ERs to the 77W. This is simply (again!) confirmation of what had already been known for months. These are the first three 77Ws for KLM.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4641 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14008 times:
Quoting Kevin (Reply 7): I have been using www.justplanes.com for a while now and they seem to be a very credible source.
I'm going with Katekebo on this one. They're not reliable at all. They regularly miss orders, they report commitments as orders, report some orders twice, etc. The list is endless.
JustPlanes From United States, joined Apr 2006, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13707 times:
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 8): I'm going with Katekebo on this one. They're not reliable at all. They regularly miss orders, they report commitments as orders, report some orders twice, etc. The list is endless.
Hey, thanks very much from a fellow Belgian guy... Sorry to say but we do not report orders twice... just show me 1 such example in our listing...
Also we do not miss orders... we report each order that is either announced by Airbus, Boeing or an airline... so we won't report 150 planes to China.. we'll report it when a specific airline confirms an order... and yes, our list shows commitments/orders... it says it in big letters on the top of the page... so obviously we won't have the same numbers at the same time as others but in the end our list is totally accurate, whether you like it or not... Cheers!
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3907 posts, RR: 78 Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12029 times:
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2): So KL will then receive six B77W and three more B772ERs?
KLM currently operates 13 B772ERs and has 5 more frames on order, two of which will be taken as B772ERs - the next one due in early 2007 - while the remaining 3 have been converted to B77Ws. After this conversion, KLM is to operate 15 B772ERs and 3 B77Ws by the time delivery will have been completed. It is highly likely that KLM will place follow up orders for the B77W.
Iwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1096 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11950 times:
Quoting JustPlanes (Reply 11): Hey, thanks very much from a fellow Belgian guy... Sorry to say but we do not report orders twice... just show me 1 such example in our listing...
JP, thanks for comments. I disagree with you however: the orders totals do not match the totals on the Boeing and Airbus's websites, and for example in the JP 748 orders list, there are none of the VIP 748i's listed.
JustPlanes From United States, joined Apr 2006, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11820 times:
Quoting Iwok (Reply 13): JP, thanks for comments. I disagree with you however: the orders totals do not match the totals on the Boeing and Airbus's websites, and for example in the JP 748 orders list, there are none of the VIP 748i's listed.
Yes you are right... our numbers are different because we list them as soon as an airline commits to an order... while Boeing only lists them when it is a firm order however in the end the numbers are exactly the same... and the list is just for airline orders (including leasing companies) but no business jets...
Anyway we're not forcing anyone to use our numbers... it's just a different way of presenting things... and currently more than 30,000 people come to read our weekly news and orders and things like that so some out there must think its ok...
Another thing is that Airbus and Boeing list their numbers in a different way and Airbus plays with those numbers at the end of the year... we list them exactly the same way for both so it's a better way of comparing one with the other...
Jacobin777 From United States, joined Sep 2004, 13323 posts, RR: 68 Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11605 times:
Quoting JustPlanes (Reply 14):
Anyway we're not forcing anyone to use our numbers... it's just a different way of presenting things... and currently more than 30,000 people come to read our weekly news and orders and things like that so some out there must think its ok...
I just ordered a couple of more DVD's from your website to add to my justplanes.com collection...
JustPlanes From United States, joined Apr 2006, 684 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11476 times:
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17): I just ordered a couple of more DVD's from your website to add to my justplanes.com collection...
hahaha, that's great, thanks so much...
I normally abstain from making comments about Just Planes unless someone has a question but in this case I just wanted people out there to know why and how we do the orders & commitments on our site and make sure they were aware that it's not just thrown on there at will... Like in the last 2 days you will find the Airbus orders from Airblue & EasyJet and the Boeing orders from AeroMexico and KLM and if tomorrow British announces it will commit to 50 A350s or B787s we will add them on there even though Airbus or Boeing might not yet... but if you look at what we've added say since September :
Sep12 Atlas Air
Sep14 Hainan Airlines
Sep20 Lufthansa
Sep22 Travel Service
Sep23 Transaero
Sep29 Ryanair
Oct01 Egyptair
Oct16 China Southern
Oct17 Guggenhaim Av
Oct17 Tiger Airways
Oct26 CIT Aerospace
Oct26 Skybus Airlines
Oct27 Emirates
Oct29 Qantas
Oct30 GOL
Oct30 Shanghai Airl.
Oct31 TAM
Nov01 Alafco
Nov07 Fedex
Nov13 Airblue
Nov13 KLM
Nov14 AeroMexico
Nov14 EasyJet
these are all legitimate orders or commitments by these companies... We're not missing any and we haven't invented any either...
Once you understand how we keep track of them it makes very good sense...
B707Stu From United States, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9081 times:
Quoting Morvious (Reply 19): Ohhh yeah, finally a 773 on Schiphol, atleast in the near future!!
Now we only need some A345 or A346 and my list would be completed.
Thanks for the info.
From how KL is trending I highly doubt you'll get your wish... A330 is likely to be the largest Airbus aircraft with Royal Blue colorings... though it would be interesting to see an A346 in the KL colors...
KL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8249 times:
Any idea when those 773ER´s will be dilivered? Can't wait to see them at AMS here. Very cool. ( And I agree that the 346 would look stunning in KL's livery...)
Sinlock From United States, joined Dec 2000, 1474 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (2 years 12 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
Quoting Morvious (Reply 19): Ohhh yeah, finally a 773 on Schiphol, atleast in the near future!!
Now we only need some A345 or A346 and my list would be completed.
I'm sure it's not what you ment but...... Wish no more..........
26 MEA-707: Morvious just meant he wishes for A-345s and A-346s on Schiphol, not necessairily by KLM. If Etihad or Cathay or SAA or Emirates would come with them
27 KL911: Great, thanks. That's what I needed.. KL911
28 Morvious: Hehe I didn't hoped KLM would get the A345 or A346, but just any carrier with the plane would do the trick
29 ChiGB1973: Maybe less capacity or just less engines, getting rid of 744s? M
30 LarSPL: its about time i add you to my respected users as klm is to receive atleast 4 more a330's (internal news today report the current fleet of 5 to double
31 Raggi: Slightly off topic, but why does KL skip some letters in the regs of their different a/c ? With the 777s they go PH-BQA to PH-BQI, then skip BQJ, and
32 PlaneHunter: Plus PH-AOK (msn 834) to join the fleet in May 2007. PH
33 SK601: KL has a A330 similator with the registration AOG. In aviation the abreviation AOG stands for "Aircraft on Ground", so probably not good to use for a
34 AMSSFO: From http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061113/sfm101.html?.v=61: "Earlier this year, KLM also converted an existing order for three 777-200ERs to three 777
35 Iwok: JP, thanks for the feedback. OK, so going with that theory, you should be showing more sales for Boeing this year than what they show? And, how is the
36 PanAm_DC10: As the title says...and more, here's more; KLM have ordered 21 sets of the Aviation Partners Blended Winglets Systems SEATTLE, Nov. 29 /PRNewswire/ --
37 Kappel: KLM always leaves the PH-**J for aircraft models. So, you'll find PH-BQJ on some aircraft models. Some model manufacturers use real regs though. (I h
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