P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5020 times:
I am curious about the procedures for arrivals into the London area. Does all the traffic landing at Heathrow, and the surrounding airports, get placed into holding, regardless of volume, weather, etc and then Approach takes them out of the stack? And, if so, why? Or, does the Center vector for sequencing to the arrival fix and then Hands off to Approach?
SpeedBird203 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4947 times:
Well, Arrivals into London Luton don't hold, They line them up on a 7 mile final usually, Its hardly anything more than 7 mile, Of course Heathrow will have that landing hold due to the busy traffic, I enjoy the hold for some reason, Just gives a nice view of London. But nope, Not all airports in the London area have a hold due to the busy traffic.
PHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1265 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4910 times:
I remember this being a little better before. But I think it still may give you a solid explaination. Read from "Radar Maneuvering area" then down. In particular it sounds like the "Stacks" section is what you want to look at.
Wheelsatc From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4728 times:
LAM, BIG, BNN and OCK are the four hold points as XXXX10 mentioned. In addition to them if the holds at LAM and BIG are full further hold points can be opened at way point BRASO for LAM and waypoint TIGER for BIG. These will be a bit further out and at higher levels. I am not sure about BNN abd OCK.
If you were coming from US east coast most arrivals route via OCK with Mid to west America and Canada routing via BNN. LAM is the busiest hold and is generally the only one that occasionally sees the additional hold point opened up.
To answer your question, I'd say it depends! I've arrived at LHR many times and have gotten right in, other times there were a couple of spins in the hold then in you go.
Like any other facility, if the weather is good, the arrival rate increases. If there's weather or other issues, such as winds then the arrival rate decreases. If there is weather and the arrival rate decreases, then the probability of holding is increased at peak times.
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4323 times:
Thank you for the information. The thread about EGLL jogged a memory. When I was a controller at ZDC, and gave a tour to some British controllers, I recall they could not believe how dark the control room was and why we weren't holding for BWI, PHL, EWR and LGA. They seemed astounded at that. Anyway, thanks.