OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2499 times:
Well, since its not gonna happen, do we even need to consider that decision?
Also, don't forget about the rest of the non-union vs. union company. The unions would probably need to hold a new election to see if the rest of the company wants to be represented as well.
I'm both. Besides, they wouldn't let number 2 UA and number 6 US merge. They wouldn't let number 4 CO and number 5 NW merge, and they wouldn't let number 3 DL and number 4 CO merge in previous years. Do you really think they will let number 3 DL and number 6 US merge? I don't see it.
Jetjack74 From United States, joined Jul 2003, 6587 posts, RR: 55 Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2432 times:
Quoting CO767FA (Thread starter): If this deal closes; how do you think the non-unionize F/A's will fair on their seniority?
It would go Date of Hire by age, which means if your hire date was 21June99, it would then be stacked by the age of the member. That's AFA Constitution, whether you're unionised or not. The AA/TWA thing was a fluke and APFA was able to make up the rules.
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
Ssides From United States, joined Feb 2001, 3862 posts, RR: 32 Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2429 times:
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 3): I'm both. Besides, they wouldn't let number 2 UA and number 6 US merge. They wouldn't let number 4 CO and number 5 NW merge, and they wouldn't let number 3 DL and number 4 CO merge in previous years. Do you really think they will let number 3 DL and number 6 US merge? I don't see it.
Yeah, but all those mergers were proposed pre-9/11, when oil was sitting around $20 per barrel. Antitrust law today takes a good hard look at current economics, and given the struggles the airlines have had, I don't think the DOJ will have a problem with it.
The real question is whether DL will accept the offer, or if US would be forced to make a fully hostile bid.
OttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2149 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 9): We never attempted to actually merge with CO, we only bought a chunk of their stock. Big difference
Yea, but you wouldn't buy stock unless you were attempting to merge/control the airline. It was in 99 or so(wasn't it), when the DOJ basically told NW to forget trying, since it would never be approved.
Quoting CO767FA (Reply 7): This is it in a nutshell; it is your opinion. Your opinions are not the DOT/DOJ rulings.
And is exactly what you were asking when you posted this thread? Why else would you have asked that? You wanted opinions, and you got it. Sorry it may not be what you wanted to hear. Tough luck.
Quoting Foxecho (Reply 8): this is why you're on my RU list dude.....
Gracias, amigo! I promise, life will get easier once everyone starts worshipping me. LOL
Bucky707 From United States, joined Aug 2000, 1021 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2136 times:
Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 10): CO pulled out of merging with DL after DOJ stated it would not approve such a merger.
if you are referring to the CO/DL merger which almost happened in the late 90s, CO pulled out because Delta refused to honor the CO labor agreements regarding job protections.
Leo was quoted as saying "you mean this fell apart over labor?"
ANNOYEDFA From United States, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2075 times:
Us Airways people will not go non-union and since the DL people have been so screwed especially the Flight attendants. I don't asee why they woulden't want a union to work for them. Imagine waking up one day and your company going hey were cutting your pay effective tomorrow and then having no say in anything or how much goes. Welcome to Delta!!!
Tsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2075 times:
Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 12): Imagine waking up one day and your company going hey were cutting your pay effective tomorrow and then having no say in anything or how much goes. Welcome to Delta!!!
So if the union didn't want their pay cut and had a strike to stop it, then the airline goes under what happens then?
TVNWZ From United States, joined Feb 2006, 1587 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5): It would go Date of Hire by age, which means if your hire date was 21June99, it would then be stacked by the age of the member. That's AFA Constitution, whether you're unionised or not. The AA/TWA thing was a fluke and APFA was able to make up the rules.
Nope. This is one of the reasons Parker wants to do this in BK court. Just like TWA there will be a plan laid out. I would just suggest the DL employees not believe any promises that are not put in writing and agreed to by the court.
Quoting Ssides (Reply 6): Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 3):
I'm both. Besides, they wouldn't let number 2 UA and number 6 US merge. They wouldn't let number 4 CO and number 5 NW merge, and they wouldn't let number 3 DL and number 4 CO merge in previous years. Do you really think they will let number 3 DL and number 6 US merge? I don't see it.
Yeah, but all those mergers were proposed pre-9/11, when oil was sitting around $20 per barrel. Antitrust law today takes a good hard look at current economics, and given the struggles the airlines have had, I don't think the DOJ will have a problem with it.
None of those count, anymore. DL is in BK court. It will be relatively easy to divest/shut down whatever it takes to come into any compliance. And this could very easily be US assets. Remember, they are keeping the Delta name.The rules are different for a BK company where the Creditors Committees have tremendous standing. Remember, a JUDGE will ultimately decide which offer wins. The DOJ, and any other alphabet soup federal agency, are typically loathe to fight a BK judge's decision, particularly since they will be filing their own briefs before the court so he willl know their thoughts.
Quoting Foxecho (Reply 8): I"ll never work for a union as long as I live, This will NEVER happen at DL
Best bet then: get another job.
This will happen, unless Grinstein can come up with a better offer by the deadline. He has previously said, it will take longer. Translation: Can't come up with the money.
Flyibaby From United States, joined Aug 2004, 931 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5): It would go Date of Hire by age, which means if your hire date was 21June99, it would then be stacked by the age of the member. That's AFA Constitution, whether you're unionised or not. The AA/TWA thing was a fluke and APFA was able to make up the rules.
In my entire aviation career, I have always loathed the whole senority by age. I prefer the idea used by some airlines where they base senority on date of hire and then the last four digits of your SSN. That way it is a little more random and fair to younger people. Nothing worse than being in a group of newhires and being told that because you are only 25 years old that you are lowest in senority because they hired 50 others who are all 40-50 years old.
Aa757first From United States, joined Aug 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 12): Us Airways people will not go non-union and since the DL people have been so screwed especially the Flight attendants. I don't asee why they woulden't want a union to work for them. Imagine waking up one day and your company going hey were cutting your pay effective tomorrow and then having no say in anything or how much goes. Welcome to Delta!!!
Historically, DL's flight attendants seem to be very happy with their airline. The AFA campaign to unionize them was one of the most expensive in history and the vote was something like 85% "no".
Aloha73G From United States, joined Jul 2003, 2134 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2073 times:
Since Delta is so large, if 85% of their employees vote against unions at a merged carrier, would that be enough to keep a combined company non-union? I would assume there must be a portion of US/HP employees who would also vote no (atleast 10-20% I would figure). Just a question....it may end up being a numbers game.
Being non-union worked well for DL employees for many years for a variety of reasons.
-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
Jetjack74 From United States, joined Jul 2003, 6587 posts, RR: 55 Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 14): This is one of the reasons Parker wants to do this in BK court. Just like TWA there will be a plan laid out. I would just suggest the DL employees not believe any promises that are not put in writing and agreed to by the court.
Sorry to say, it's not up to Doug Parker or the bankruptcy court. The AFA has it written in there bylaws that all members merged into there union will have their seniority protected wheter they're AFA, union-represented or not. The bankruptcy court cannot force the AFA to violate their constitution, the union side of the merger is not on the bankrupt side.
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
Jetjack74 From United States, joined Jul 2003, 6587 posts, RR: 55 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2069 times:
Quoting Foxecho (Reply 19): I'll stay where i am thank you very much, cause its not gonna happen!
I think you're right. NW and DL, I think the top dogs think they believe they feel that they're respective companies are worth saving. I think Doug Parker is doing this to try and neutralise the looming threat, since we and DL have the lowest labour costs in the industry among the big 6 major carriers. Parker is looking to cut the head off of a cobra.
"Shut your pie hole and listen to me when I say that I am finished with the checking of the bags conversation."
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From United States, joined Aug 2005, 488 posts, 
, they wanted to staple the CO employees to the bottom of the list's; now will they be stapled to the bottom?
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
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