Notdownnlocked From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 919 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1025 times:
Some AF employees on strike?!?!?! Are you sure??? I was sure it would never happen!!! Just kidding!!! Perhaps the French government didn't give them their daily allotment of bread crumbs to make up for their last strike in what....30 minutes ago!!! I think the new motto for AF should be "Drive to the airport with your fingers crossed." Oops, I made a mistake, It should be, "Walk to the airport with your fingers crossed." You can never be sure when the striking truck drivers are blocking the roads so you can't get to the airport. Watch out for those flying vegetables and fish being thrown on the road, you'd hate to smell like old fish for your eventual flight!!! Here is my AF cheer- "Go Air France, Go on strike."
FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1001 times:
Amen to NotDownLocked
I was on an AF flight where we landed at CDG and ran like hell to catch the flight (friggin French-only signs); finally arriving at the aircraft only to sit and wait. The plane fuelers had gone on a wildcat strike. God forbid that we have been told of this in the terminal so we could have had a civilized breakfast rather than sitting hungry in the plane while the flight attendants fussed over the pax in the fake business class cabin (same seats but only 2 pax on each side)
Even my travails with Northwest flight 57 were better than that experience, because at least we were in a terminal and we could eat and talk and lie down on the floor. Also everyone spoke English and we were in New York.
A350-200 From France, joined Oct 2000, 150 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 993 times:
All I have to say is that you should try to avoid stereotypes when you speak about something: strikes also happen (less frenquently i reckon) in America. Remember this summer...
And I also used to be "retained" (onboard a US plane in SFO!): the reason is that if there is a take off clearance, having passengers scattered in the terminal can mean the loss of this slot. And more delays...
Prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6123 posts, RR: 55 Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 981 times:
Notdownnlocked is SO right. Have you been living in France?
It is nothing specially related to AF, it is just plain French culture.
It may be ralated to the weather. When I spool back to all the strikes I have experineced in France, then the weather always was pretty nice.
That culture is not too different from the Danish culture, it's just opposite. Here in Denmark we often plan for a revolution, but most often we have rain instead.
Best regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
Mls737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 971 times:
I am French and reading about some posts in this trend (and all the other nasty posts about AF that I read in this forum in the past 2 months), I must say that most people are just not intelligent enough to get cultural differences (even though they think they know all about it)... Pathetic.
As for AF, if you hate the airline, thank you for not flying it. At AF they don't need morons aboard their planes.
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 964 times:
Dear Air France-basher...
First I thought it would be usefull to explain why there's a strike:
Four of the Air France's pilot union (SPAC, SPAS, ALTER, SNPAC) have gone on strike because they complain about the conditions they are given about the working time reduction (a law voted in France last year).
A couple of months ago, I talked with Air France pilots about these unions. He told me that there are some people who still hold on to the old Air France, with the poor results and "confortable" salaries. But this is far from being the case of all the pilots of the airline (this even represent a small minority). All other are comitted to the airline's financial results, are large shareholders and just demand one thing: the sale of the remain stock in the hands of the French state.
Many flights attendants also have a very good idea of what is their business. And this narrow down to Air France, but they also have a good knowledge of the whole airline industry.
Many things have changed since 1993, when Air France was really close to bankruptcy. Thoughts have changed much, and at Air France 90% thinks about the airline's development and future. They are sadened some people still hold on to what they had a privilege rather than taking part to the great challenge.
Skyhooked From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 955 times:
Dear Alain Mengus
If you just could have kept your mouth shut when you don't know the first thing about aviation,let alone Air France,this thread could have remained clean with the usual french basher roaming the pages of Airliners.net.
I gather that you're part of the "clampins" who think that pilots are overpayed,over....everything and you could'nt wait to add some venom on this subject.From now on,I'll start watching for your name on a pax list in order to tell you in french what I think of you (Here in english,Johan won't let me).On the other hand,if you are interested in info,ask,lots of guys here won't hesitate to point you to the right direction.
For the rest of you,
what I can say is myopia can be cured.Have there never been a strike in your country,do you really live in places where everybody-and I mean EVERYBODY-is just lying happy in the warm sun?
Yeah,I live in a country that's still alive,where people not so long ago died for the right to express themselves,where the right to strike is in the constitution and where corporate benefits don't solve all disputes.
I would never have entered this forum it wasn't for AM above,I don't dream of denying anybody's right for an opinion even if I might disagree with it.Just consider the economic facts,the just published financial,traffic...etc results of the world's airlines.Then compare AF performance with your favorite carrier..............
And then ask one of these british pilots who work in the UK but live in France his opinion...(but of course,Brits don't usually get things right,do they?).
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 917 times:
Either my English is really bad, or you read my post far too quickly. But considering what you said, there's obviously a mistunderstanding.
Have I ever said pilots are paid to much? No.
Have I said pilots are worng about this? No.
Have I said the 35h reduction is wrong? No.
I just said some people are holding to old privileges. But this is far from being the case of everyone (in the opposite).
You're maybe not from the SNPL. But I have been following the talks of this union, and apparently they have reached somewhat of an agreement.
I have never said the ultimate goal is to squeeze antyhing you can from any workforce.
Now, rather than insulting me, you could have explained what's your point.
Anyway, I would be really happy to meet you next I fly.
Skyhooked From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 903 times:
1-"old Air France,poor results and comfortable salaries"
2-"some people still hold on to what they had a privilege (sic)rather than taking part of a great challenge"
How do any striking pilot take that?
Or is your typing faster than your thinking?
The problem is quite simple :The government invented the RTT (working time reduction) as a way to force the companies to hire more employees,but without reducing the salaries .How could they do that is a bit beyond my understanding,but the fact is that the jobless rate has gone down quite dramatically in the past year,probably not thanks to the RTT.
The airline pilots are about the last group of employees to negociate theirs and Air France has just about been asked by the rest of the airline industry to come out with a plan which will then become law.
Another loophole in the french labour law is that any union,whatever its size can represent the total workforce and sign on their behalf any agreement they pass with the management.
Do you begin to see where this is leading?
Most of the opposition to the protocole signed by the SNPL (the largest pilot union,but not the majority as claimed by AM) comes from four points :
1-/the work time reduction is on a yearly basis .That means that ,as usual in our industry,there are busy months and lean periods,and the overtime will never be paid.
2-/Reserve/alert is not counted as duty
3-/The pilots on the dying fleets (A310 and B742) loose their salary
4-/ Three months notice to the management before the strike.
As you can see above the number of strike-breaking outfits is quite staggering...
Enough said.And before AML starts making definitive judgments ,lets just say we are all interested in the development of this airline.The old AF ailments were not the pilots fault but the government's who used it for rather doubtful means.That cost us five years of forced no-growth at a time when our direct -and true -competitors were let free to develop.
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 27 Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 899 times:
I totally agree with you on "RTT" trouble. As a matter of fact quite a few of your colleagues are friends of mine.
Le but de mon message était d'expliquer à certains râleurs la cause de cette grève, afin qu'ils puissent juger par eux même que les pilotes d'Air France ne sont pas les feignants qu'ils imaginent faisant la grève pour n'importe quel prétexte, mais bel et bien des gens responsables qui souhaitent obtenir des conditions de travails descentes.
Tentant de rendre les choses objectives, j'ai indiqué qu'il y a des gens à l'esprit étroit (comme partout). Mais bien entendu je ne me suis pas gardé de préciser que cela ne concerne qu'une faible minorité.
J'ai mentionné le SNPL car il s'agit du syndicat dont j'ai dernièrement pu constater les avancés (n'étant pas, alors, au courant des avancés chez les autres).
Je suis sincerement désolé que ce que j'ai voulu exprimer n'ait été interprété comme je l'aurais souhaité.
Skyhooked From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 883 times:
You are a better man than I,Gunga Din !
I am sincerely sorry I lost my cool and ashamed someone so much younger than me could in fact prove his better ability to listen to others and amend his thinking.
A very humbling lesson,Alain.
Get my e-mail and I'll take you up there where bickerings become very insignificant.