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Air NZ 'may Cut' Trans Tasman Services  
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=65916

AIR NZ 'may cut' Trans Tasman services
Thursday Nov 16 07:47 AEDT
Air New Zealand says it has made no decision on whether it will reduce trans-Tasman services after giving up on plans to pursue a code-share agreement with Qantas.

Air NZ announced on Wednesday it would withdraw its applications, for the airlines to share services on the Tasman route, with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and New Zealand's Ministry of Transport.

The ACCC recently made a draft rejection of the Air NZ and Qantas proposal, and Air NZ said its review of the recent draft judgment from the ACCC gave it "little confidence that its views will be given any weight" when the final ruling was delivered.

"So we're better off withdrawing our application and redeploying our resources," Air NZ chief executive Rob Fyfe said.




The airline had previously indicated that it might be forced to reduce capacity on the Tasman if the code-share was not approved.

Mr Fyfe said there had been no decisions made on that issue, the New Zealand Herald reported.

But it was clear something had to be done to address the profitability of the route - which accounted for about 20 per cent of Air NZ revenue.

"We haven't got a master plan that is about to be rolled out tomorrow," he said.

"We still have a series of routes across the Tasman that are very poorly performing for us. We will now have to review how we address those issues."

The Dominion Post has reported Mr Fyfe backed away from his earlier threat to raise fares or reduce seat numbers out of Wellington if the code-share failed.

There would be no immediate changes to schedules or prices, he said. The airline had lost $NZ35 million ($A30.27 million) on its services to the capital since 2003.

The code-share was in the best interests of customers and the best solution to tackle the oversupply of seats on the Tasman while retaining a low fare structure, Mr Fyfe said.

Wellington International Airport led a vigorous and often acrimonious campaign against the code-share.

The city would have been the hardest hit by the code-share, losing all competition on Melbourne and Sydney services and a total of seven flights a week.

But on Wednesday night Wellington airport, along with political and business leaders, held out an olive branch, promising to work more closely with the airlines to improve the performance of Wellington trans-Tasman services.

Airport chief executive Simon Draper said he was relieved and the decision would make it easier for the airport and airlines to work together.


©AAP 2006

Surely they will downgrade some services to smaller aircraft or fly less frequently, or give Freedom Air access to more routes ???

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11845 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5253 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm surprised NZ didn't excercise some of their A320 Family options for some A319s or A318s for Tasman services. A319s/A318s on some Tasman routes would be better then A320s.

I still believe that NZ and QF flying from WLG at different times would work better then flying out at basically the same times each day


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
I still believe that NZ and QF flying from WLG at different times would work better then flying out at basically the same times each day

Yeh seems crazy that eg. WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

Maybe they might each drop one service & introduce a fare, like a full economy fare, whereby they could be used on either carrier, a bit like if you were flying BNE/SYD in Ansett days & you had a full economy ticket, you could get on a QF flight with an AN ticket, ie. that is, either airline would accept each other paper, although a little more complicated with a e-ticket, as no paper coupon to accept, but can't be difficult to work out.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Well Rob, that's going to help you maintain market share and feed!!

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):
WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

That's because they both want their share of the business traffic who can take advantage of as full a work-day as possible on either side of the Tasman if they leave at these times. These travelers are either Star Alliance or ONE World customers for the most part and their perks for work flying are that they get to use their airpoints on their families.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11845 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5257 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):

I was thinking maybe 6am, 12pm and 4pm flights from WLG-SYD, with say NZ and QF taking turns at the 12pm flights. 6am and 4pm flights catering mostly for business passengers and 12pm for familys and leisure flights. Maybe QF and NZ could code-share on the 12pm flight. If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5190 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

I guess they probably will reduce flights particularly ex WLG and AKL, though AKL would get larger aircraft on some flights.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
I'm surprised NZ didn't excercise some of their A320 Family options for some A319s or A318s for Tasman services. A319s/A318s on some Tasman routes would be better then A320s.

I don't think they will now, I think if they were thinking about that they would have already done it.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

NZ should be team up with DJ. DJ's recent ordered E190 are the ideal aircraft for routes from Wellington. But also for some routes from AKL or Christchurch.

Maybe even NZ could buy some embraers.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 3):
Quoting Australia1 (Reply 2):
WLG/SYD both airlines have flights in morning & afternoon 40 minutes apart.

That's because they both want their share of the business traffic who can take advantage of as full a work-day as possible on either side of the Tasman if they leave at these times. These travelers are either Star Alliance or ONE World customers for the most part and their perks for work flying are that they get to use their airpoints on their families.

Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):

I was thinking maybe 6am, 12pm and 4pm flights from WLG-SYD, with say NZ and QF taking turns at the 12pm flights. 6am and 4pm flights catering mostly for business passengers and 12pm for familys and leisure flights. Maybe QF and NZ could code-share on the 12pm flight. If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect

Forget the 12noon flights, leaisure pax will fly at anytime & virtually no business demand for a 12noon flight.

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 6):
NZ should be team up with DJ. DJ's recent ordered E190 are the ideal aircraft for routes from Wellington. But also for some routes from AKL or Christchurch.

Maybe even NZ could buy some embraers.

Talk in todays Australian newspaper of DJ & NZ now talking.

Doubt if NZ could afford or justify E-jets, especilly when they got SO MANY empty seats across Tasman now. Lots of 733 & A320's that could be better deployed, freeing up larger aircraft for other routes.


User currently offlineAntskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Doubt if NZ could afford or justify E-jets, especilly when they got SO MANY empty seats across Tasman now

NZ has consistently exagerated the "empty seat" problem" on its Tasman routes. On its own figures, Tasman occupancy is only 5% down compared to its "international" routes. On the other hand, NZ has an inferior product on the Tasman to QF, its main competitor - that is something it should address. NZ's real problem is it's being walloped by QF.

The duplicity of NZ is demonstrated by its litany of complaints about EK, yet its real problem area seems to be out of WLG, which EK does not even serve. NZ persists in trying to mate with QF, its only real competitor in the Tasman frequency/business market - rather than really competing with it. Unless they rethink their Tasman offerings, things will only get worse for NZ as QF/JQ's B787's come online.

Quoting Australia1 (Thread starter):
Mr Fyfe backed away from his earlier threat to raise fares or reduce seat numbers out of Wellington if the code-share failed


[Edited 2006-11-17 01:22:03]

User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2634 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

That's the erroneous argument NZ and QF have been trying to spin and has been roundly rejected by the ACCC. Why? Becasue it was balls.

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):
The duplicity of NZ is demonstrated by its litany of complaints about EK, yet its real problem area is out of WLG, which EK does not even serve.

Very good point. I hadn't even considered that. All this seems to be about WLG. Meanwhile Fyfe is still spouting on about the increased competition from EK in the past two years. I don't know where exactly - all they've done is switch MEL-CHC to SYD-CHC and put on newer aircraft (77Ws) with much better service. So I guess better inflight service is what Fyfe is bleating about.


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 4388 times:

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9):
Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

That's the erroneous argument NZ and QF have been trying to spin and has been roundly rejected by the ACCC. Why? Becasue it was balls.

What do u mean?

QF & NZ could announce tomorrow if they agreed & wanted to, that pax could choose whether that wanted Star miles or One World points on QF & NZ services across tasman only.

It gets rid of any f.f. issues.

However, with reduced services, their would be very few f.f. seats to redeem across tasman.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6334 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

Just read that NZ will fly the 772 to Adelaide before Christmas due to a rise in demand.. This seems absurd! If there was such a jump, why not go for a 767 and send the 777 to SYD?

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):
NZ's real problem is it's being walloped by QF.

One thing I would like to add to this: NZ's A320s vs QF's 763s; NZ has about the same frequency as QF does everyday to AKL, but with much bigger planes. Therefore they have more seats for the cheapest price range and NZ has very few. From, QF you can get points from the chepest seats, and also a proper meal. They're probably the reasons I'm not flying NZ next time across the Tasman, but one is to test out EK and NZ's return flight just doesn't compare to QF's.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineAxio From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 11):
Just read that NZ will fly the 772 to Adelaide before Christmas due to a rise in demand..

Really? I didn't see it in the latest Star Alliance Timetable... and it seems an odd thing to do. If there is an A320 available, I would have thought upping the frequency from 3 to 4 a week or something like that would have worked better than take a big asset like a 777 out from elsewhere.

b.t.w how come Freedom/the Zeal operation is not in the *A timetable?

ax



Time for a new viewing deck at AKL!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6334 posts, RR: 39
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4250 times:

May have been misleading.. One day, the 22nd of December Link

But still, seems strange they opt for the 772..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineRyan h From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 1494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

The 777 to ADL as far as I know is a one off.


South Australian Spotter
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11845 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4228 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Axio (Reply 12):
how come Freedom/the Zeal operation is not in the *A timetable?

SJ is a seperate airline and is not a member of Star


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 7):
Airlines can effectively code share without codesharing. Eg. QF & NZ could work something out so that Star miles can be earned when flying QF metal & v.v. Obviously not enough demand from business to justify all these services, that exist now.

Not if the regulatory authorities on each side of the Tasman agree they can't.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 16):
Not if the regulatory authorities on each side of the Tasman agree they can't.

MH

Oh of course they can, BIG BROTHER !!!

Frequent flyer miles/points nothing to do with any reg. authority !!!!


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 17):
Oh of course they can, BIG BROTHER !!!

Frequent flyer miles/points nothing to do with any reg. authority !!!!

Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, let alone vetoed by their respective alliance partners. To do so would be to start operating in a monopolistic fashion to the detriment of competition I.E. anti-competitive behavior - that's the domain of regulatory authority.

MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, let alone vetoed by their respective alliance partners. To do so would be to start operating in a monopolistic fashion to the detriment of competition I.E. anti-competitive behavior - that's the domain of regulatory authority.

MH

Look, any airline can give away f.f. miles/points or whatever, bottles of booze (ala famous Southwest deal), without it becoming monopolistic.

Resp. alliance partners would rather this, than have carriers withdraw services from some routes, which would mean no f.f. seats at all !!!


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 19):
Look, any airline can give away f.f. miles/points or whatever, bottles of booze (ala famous Southwest deal), without it becoming monopolistic.

Not when it comes to doing a deal with your competition that together with you makes up 80% of the market.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineVHXLR8 From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 500 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):
If only QF had the B717 with Jetconnect

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there might be some issues with a 717 operating trans-tasman. Even with 737s, changes have to be made before the tasman flights (additional liferafts, beacons etc).


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Quoting Antskip (Reply 8):

NZ has consistently exagerated the "empty seat" problem" on its Tasman routes

Yes and it is really more of an issue of yields rather than load factor for NZ, since their restructure to ZEAL320 and moving to a low-cost operation. This has meant that NZ have to fill a higher % of seats to make money, than they did before. All in all, a bit of a challenge at present.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
Interesting opinion, I believe any such attempt would be successfully challenged, l

Ditto. Would never get off the ground, and anyway, why would they try now, to cooperate. NZ would be better looking for synergy with DJ for better feed on the other side of the ditch, and positioning a plane via OZ to HKG to connect with the AKl-HKG-LHR service. NZ should use their valuable rights to operate intl service out of Australia...


User currently offlineAustralia1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 22):
NZ would be better looking for synergy with DJ for better feed on the other side of the ditch

not going to happen. DJ have come out & said so.


User currently offlineZKNBX From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 464 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Yes... so what? At the end of the day, it comes down to more than what they said. It is about what kind of a deal goes on the table... and I'd be surprised if something doesn't come to fruition given recent talk. If DJ won't play ball, then NZ might have to look again at the OZ domestic market. Ultimately, something has to give.

25 VHVXB : You really think NZ can sustain services in the Australian domestic market?
26 Australia1 : Of course they can, with lower costs than QF. Hey they could start flying domestic ops in OZ tomorrow if they wanted, but they might be better, using
27 Koruman : Compass, Impulse, Ansett, Ozjet. Sorry, but there's no room for a third domestic carrier in Australia. But NZ only needed it to provide feed for 400 s
28 VHVXB : QF ain't only the operator in the Australian domestic market. You have DJ and JQ who have lower operating costs than QF. Now how will NZ a full servi
29 Aerohottie : Disagree completely... there is plenty of room, just no room for inefficient, undercapitalised carriers such as Compass, Ansett and Ozjet. Impulse is
30 Koruman : Aerohottie, I think domestic Australian flights for Air New Zealand are an unnecessary risk, whereas long-haul from Australia with 777 and 787 aircraf
31 NZ107 : Is QF failing on their PEK and PVG routes because lack of feeder services? I don't see how NZ will be able to sustain so many flights to HKG/PVG from
32 ZK-NBT : QF is losing money in China mainly because of the aircraft and cometition, QF along with CA, MU and CZ all fly to Mainland China plus CX to HKG from
33 Nzrich : Well Air NZ's A320's are operated by Zeal 320 ltd which is 100% owned by Air NZ and this company is the old Freedomair ( Zeal operates both sj and nz
34 Nzrich : As for cutting routes i think the only city that will face any cuts will be WLG ..After operating those flights for a while the loads are on average m
35 VHVXB : Fair enough. I may have misunderstood what ZKNBX trying to say then
36 Australia1 : Compass Mark 1 got screwed by QF & AN. Think it was a lot more efficient than AN, although that wouldn't be hard !!! OzJet made mistake of trying to
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