Tl8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7604 times:
If ever there was a time to make nice with NW now is the time. At least with NW you get a truely global carrier with access to Asia.
The best for both employee groups at this point is to merge DL and NW....
Of course, I am not a bankrupcy expert and am not sure if they can merge as part of the process or if one of them has to exit before the process can start but, as anyone who cares at all for Delta ....NW is the only alternative that makes sense.
BTW ....anybody think a loan from AF/KL could be run through Skyteam to assist with the merger???
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2078 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7139 times:
You are correct. Jerry's Dream of no mergers is shot. How they did not see this coming, I don't know, especially if US was shopping around. Yesterday, the Wall Street Pundits said that $8B for Delta was under valuing it coming out of Chapter 11. There will be lots of politicians against this deal. Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-GA, an Atlanta area native, has already come out against it. Saxby Chambliss, GA's other Senator will oppose as well. So will both Senators from Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Utah, Kentucky, and Ohio. While that is only 12 Senators, they come from both parties, and Congress will scrutinize this. US Airways has already dumped BWI, and PIT. CLT, CVG, and PHL will be next.
It's time to go to MSP and make a deal, and then the creditors might oppose the US Airways deal. US, on the other hand, will make a fortune on Delta's bonds in this deal.
It reminds me a little of the rush to buy National in the late 70's, when the "experts" decided the value of the airline was exceeded by the value of its equipment, 727's and DC-10's. Eastern (Frank Borman/Pre Lorenzo), Texas Air (Lorenzo), and Pan Am (Ed Acker and Marty Shugrue) bid up the price and Pan Am walked away the loser and the owner of National.
Also there are shades of the movie Wall Street. Only this time, it's not the Charlie Sheen/Charlie Bryant character making all the trouble, but rather that bozos that ran Delta, especially Leo Mullin, Michelle Burns, and Co.
RedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 768 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7013 times:
If Delta thought that US Airways would get the merger approved, would they go to Northwest and talk (I mean, if you have to merge, go with an airline thats reasonable)? NW i think is much more reasonable than US. Could DL secretly make a deal with NW before US Airways makes its move?
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6797 times:
Well one thing is for certain, if they merge there will be an overhaul of the fleet and many planes will be added to the desert. In time, the DC-9's and MD-88's would be gone, and I wouldnt be surprised if the 744's were sent on there way too, probably turned to freighters. This is if the airline ultimately remained under the current DL management's control. For the fact that more classic aircraft will be retired from the skies, I hope it doesn't happen.
The fleet probably would become:
763's & 764's
752's, & 3's
A319's & 320's
They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.
M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6728 times:
What dou folks think would happen to the majority of NW ground service and CSA agents that are left after the new contract? With DLs creation of Global Services, how do you think it would effect the remaining "career" agents?
Many of us have looked for a merger/buyout between DL/CO/NW in some form for a really long time so if pundits are calling for consolidation this might now have a better chance.
One excuse for such combinations has always been to "lower excess capacity" With LFs running into the 90s what excess capacity are they talking about? Or would that just give more room for such as Virgin America and other proposed LCCs.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
The last time I was at DTW it look like it had improved a great deal from previous times I have flown in. I would hope that *if* a merger were to take place and *if* DTW would happen to be one of the hubs, that it would help improve Michigan's economy.
TL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6560 times:
Jerry has always sided with shareholder value....he did it at Western and he will do it again here....the only difference here is he brought in Leo Mullin and he feels a little responsible for this mess.
Having US buy DL is like having Target buy Nordstroms.
AT the Velvet Rope Tour meeting yesterday Delta Execs said that this would not happen....not sure if that should be a sign of alarm or not....
DeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 921 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6519 times:
Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 6): They may even remove the 777's from the fleet, which DL currently own. It would not make sense having only 8 aircraft of the type with a large number A333's.
Don't forget that NW placed orders for 787's & 777's. So, if DL had any say in it this would be there way into the 787 replacements for the aging 767's and keep the current T7's and augment with the coming NW T7's. So, even after a possible DL/NW merger it would be a mixed fleet but you would probably see it more Boeing in the future than Airbus. Also, remember that NW also has Embraer e-jets coming as well.
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 6135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 2): Could DL secretly make a deal with NW before US Airways makes its move?
Neither Delta nor Northwest can do much of anything without the approval of the court. Beyond day to day operations, they can only negotiate and propose deals, their approval authority died when they declared bankruptcy.
There is nothing to stop them from secretly negotiating a proposal and presenting it to the courts, although I can't imagine how they could beat US Airway's offer to the unsecured creditors nor can I imagine them being able to get all the loose ends of such a deal arranged soon (by February).
The best time to plant a tree is today. The second best time is tomorrow.
TL8490 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4602 times:
Let's face facts...Boeing is going to have alot to say in this process and if they could get NW traffic on Boeing jets they just might put up some money. My guess is they are not all that wild about US Airways calling the shots and ordering the jets in the future.
Has anyone thought about a private equity group coming forward to take Delta and Northwest private right after they emerge???
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 7210 posts, RR: 37
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4279 times:
Quoting M404 (Reply 8): One excuse for such combinations has always been to "lower excess capacity" With LFs running into the 90s what excess capacity are they talking about? Or would that just give more room for such as Virgin America and other proposed LCCs.
Excess capacity is not about LFs. Excess capacity is about, for example, not being able to raise your fares by a measly $10... even though the LFs are into the 90's!
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
: I think that a NW/DL merger would work out much better over a US/DL one, however I see a few concerns: 1)Unions: After the NW MX Union fiasco is DL go
: If DL doesn't do it now, they will have to later... and who knows what kinda of partner they will end up with later?
: Which one, the new North Terminal that will be dominated by non-Skyteam carriers? That doesn't help the case of McNamara handling 1000 flight per day
: Why do you feel the WorldGateway could not handel a 1,000 flights? In its current configuration, in an expanded, or at all? In its current configurat
: Neither of those things are correct. NS
: BWI is nothing more than a spoke in the US/HP system, PIT is still one of US' larger bases with 160 flights, granted this is a far cry from the 500+
: NW has ordered 18 with an option for 50 more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders http://www.zap16.com/civ%20fact/civ%20boeing%207
: Hey now, don't forget morons like Fred Reid too- the one who singlehandedly said that AirTrash wasn't a threat to DL's market, and also took several
: Bigger and better than what? The North Terminal is only going to have 22 - 24 gates (forgot which). The McNamara Terminal I believe is complete in Co
: No dice. The 777 has the range to run a lot of current routes the A333 doesn't. The 777s wouldn't go anywhere, in fact, they'd add more. The A333 and
: the whole thing makes sense to me..... AF/KL would probably also be happy.... however, I doubt it will happen...
: I second the above, that a NW / DL merger would be preferable to a US/DL merger, because there is less overlap., but it is still messy... CVG is so cl
: What would be the point of having both the 737 and the A319/320? How many 737s are owned vs leased? How many A319s/320s are owned vs leased? I kind o
: NW's 319/320 109 owned, 30 leased per http://ir.nwa.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=111021&p=irol-fleet DL's 737 75 owned, 13 leased per http://www.delta.com/abo
: Wouldn't disagree that the likely hood of DTW becoming the #1 hub is a far reach. If DL and NW were to merge ATL would remain the #1 hub with DTW pul
: DTW could become a #1 hub if NW took over DL, but not if DL took over NW it would make more sense on east/west routes - i.e. New York and Northeast r
: I was recently transiting in DTW during the morning operation and saw MANY gates in the A concourse that weren't scheduled to house any flights until
: The A concourse has less flights now because a lot of mainline got transferred down to regional. That is why B and C got expanded, while A is underuse
: I don't know what dream world everyone's living in. DL and NW are COMPLETELY incompatible companies from the fleets to the cultures. It wouldn't work,
: I hope it doesnt either. Mergers are a nightmare to us spotters, but then again it is better than total bye bye like Eastern.
: Jano DLs current fleet is only the 738s the rest of the 732s are in a graveyards somewhere.DL owns all of there 737 fleet. They stoped flying the 732s
: Please continue all DL/US merger conversations in one of these 5 official threads: Official DL/US Merger Thread: Fleet Speculation http://www1.air