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Be Careful Of What You Wish For: Consolidation  
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

I'm truly amazed at how many people actually support the proposed US/DL merger. Maybe their stock went up as a result, maybe they just foam at the thought of spotting and photographing Airbus equipment in Delta colors. Who knows.

But what I fail to see is what POSSIBLE good can come out of all of this?

The most common justification I hear in support of an oligopolistic market is "overcapacity".

Oh really?

Then maybe one of you can explain to me why planes, from little CRJ's all the way up to 777's are all flying full. What is the average? 75, 80%?

And that's not good enough?

As some other people....who unfortunately got flamed for saying this....revealed the REAL issue.

It isn't overcapacity.

It's an outdated business model. Starting from the top and and all the way down from CEO's who are so clueless as to what is really going on-both from a customers as well as a front line employees point of view...that they might as well be in the Twilight Zone....to pilots and FA's that will still fight to the death their "right" to protect their Seniority Lists and other hideously archaic and obsolete mindsets. You are indeed PART OF THE PROBLEM. And please spare me the "you don't know what it's like in THIS business" rhetoric, which is usually a sign of someone who has no argument otherwise. I've worked in the private sector for many years, and have had to deal with ups and downs just as you have.

Now yes, let the record show that you have had to take many deep cuts in pay and bennies lately....and the lifestyle you've become accustomed to has been threatened....if not already eliminated. And I feel your angst.

But did you REALLY think it was a sustainable system in the first place?

Go ask any number of Auto Factory workers in Detroit about what a mile-long list of benefits, pensions, wages, and seniority lists got THEM.

Anyway, getting back on track. Let's assume that you "consolidation" hopefuls get your wish: that the number of airlines in this country drops from the current 20 or so down to about 5 or 6.

The number of furloughs and job cuts that will inevitably result as a result of eliminating redundant roles as well as abandoning so-called "marginal" routes is a number that I don't even want to think about.

But all is not lost. Things are cyclical in this business. A few names will vanish. Planes will be parked. Cities will be begging for service. And the public will tire of the lack of service and fares that will once again skyrocket due to the lack of competition.

So eventually we'll see a whole new crop (Round Three) of new upstart carriers flying a handful of routes, mostly with old, junky used second and third hand planes. And nearly all of them going out of business within two years.

So there's something that surely must be a brighter future than now: Get laid off by Delta in 2007. Get hired by Acme Air in 2009, flying 737-200's. Then after they go under in 2010, accept that FO position flying MD-80's for Thrifty Jet in 2012. Then after you get pink slipped by THEM folding in 2013, there's that new startup flying SAAB 340's out of CID you can apply to......

I think you get the picture.

Of course if you manage to be one of the lucky ones who is with Delta....and is STILL with Delta 20 years hence, you should kiss the tarmac at ATL every night and thank your lucky stars.

'Cuz most of you guys won't be that fortunate if you really get your wish vís-a-vís consolidation.

Like I said....be careful of what you wish for. You just might get it.

THEN who you gonna blame?

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30857 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4864 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I imagine a great deal of "support" from the passengers is in the interests of protecting their own elite status and frequent flier miles. If DL liquidates, they lose that "investment" and have to start all over again.

Also, with the majority of them earning that status and those miles on the "company dime", higher fares don't really come into play, since when they travel for leisure, they use the miles.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4846 times:

I'll still wish for it.

From what I understand flying does a lot of damage to the environment, even more damage per seat than driving an American-sized vehicle. Thus, I really don't mind if they consolidate down to five or six airlines and double/triple/quadruple the current fares and drop all of the 'barely worth it' cities. As long as it helps cut down on all this runaway pollution I'll be fine with it.

My job isn't any safer than anybody else's and I don't have a golden parachute or a union or anybody else to help me out. I know that I can be out on my ass just like anyone else if the market takes a seriously extended dive. I guess that's just life?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

Well I'll give you credit: that's definitely an original argument: Save The Planet through industry consolidation.

Now tell me....does that apply to everyone incl all of the Euro airlines that come and go and the Asian airlines that have been sprouting up like crab grass, or is it just the American ones that need to go?


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4787 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 3):
Now tell me....does that apply to everyone incl all of the Euro airlines that come and go and the Asian airlines that have been sprouting up like crab grass, or is it just the American ones that need to go?

I support world-wide consolidation.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8506 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
I support world-wide consolidation.

But it sounds like what you really support is controlling other people based upon how you think they should be allowed to spend their own money. And of course government exists to enable certain people to control many others.

[Edited 2006-11-17 05:07:42]

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11522 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
I'm truly amazed at how many people actually support the proposed US/DL merger.

I'm fully supportive of the merger, but only because I believe that public companies in a competitive capitalist market economy should be allowed to merge and consolidate as they wish. Especially as history in the airline industry shows, most mergers end up being disasters for the airlines involved anyway, so long-run, I really don't see how this poses much of a threat to American consumers.

If the merger goes off without a hitch (which I doubt), then great. If not, the AmericaWestUSAirwaysDelta frankenstein crumbles, and somebody else -- probably Southwest, AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier, etc., or a combination -- will fill the void.

In the long-run, everything works itself out.


User currently offlineDank From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 885 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Then maybe one of you can explain to me why planes, from little CRJ's all the way up to 777's are all flying full. What is the average? 75, 80%?

It's not just load factors that determine if there is overcapacity. You also have to look at yields. Airlines can end up filling seats by lowering prices to fill them. Prices are still pretty cheap in my experience (even with fuel costs being high).

I'm not saying that consolidation is the be all, end all. Just that saying the airlines are filling up seats doesn't mean that there isn't overcapacity.

cheers.


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Then maybe one of you can explain to me why planes, from little CRJ's all the way up to 777's are all flying full. What is the average? 75, 80%?

There is over capacity and fares are not in line with inflation neither with oil prices. In many markets planes are full due to incremental demand coming from unrealistic fares and flights are only kept for market share issues.

A typical example will be the FL market from the NY area: Too many flights too cheap resulting in over capacity and unprofitable routes.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8506 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Quoting ARGinLON (Reply 8):
A typical example will be the FL market from the NY area: Too many flights too cheap resulting in over capacity and unprofitable routes.

I'm sorry, but that's just ignorant. Airlines do not fly money-losing flights unless they have a specific reason. There have been mistakes made, and pride has cause many airline execs to make bad decisions (particularly cutting back on unprofitable routes), but Florida is a moneymaker.

Quoting Dank (Reply 7):
Just that saying the airlines are filling up seats doesn't mean that there isn't overcapacity.

Analysts like Mike Boyd, who can sell his group's aircraft forecast product for $2950 and businesses actually buy it, seem to disagree with you in regarding the American airline system.


User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1461 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

I am no in favor of the mergers or mergers in general. Airlines seem to have very little financial sense. They serve unprofitable routes and ego-striveto be world-wide mega carriers. For those of us who fly domestic coach-their is minimal difference in service between the carriers. A seat is all you get, some a bit more confortable than others, some crews a bit more pleasant than others. Part of the magic of flying has always been the differnt airline companies and their unique service and route system.

User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

It's amazing how things go in cycles.
20 years ago, there was much consolidation
and now it may all happen again the same way.

Western into Delta.
Republic into Northwest.
Ozark into TWA now AA.
Frontier (orginial) into People Express
People Express into Continental.
New York Air into Continental.
Eastern into Texas Air.
Piedmont into USAir.
AirCal into American
PSA into USAir

Did I miss any others??


User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Then maybe one of you can explain to me why planes, from little CRJ's all the way up to 777's are all flying full. What is the average? 75, 80%?

Load factor is not synonymous with yield, and it is yield that truly determines capacity. If you were to ditch aircraft and frequencies, average ticket prices would rise as competition for those seats increases. Sure, you can fill thousands of seats, but you have to offer rock-bottom prices in order to do so. With less seats on offer, fares are allowed to rise and reflect the true cost of air travel.


User currently offlineWDBRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 12):
Load factor is not synonymous with yield, and it is yield that truly determines capacity. If you were to ditch aircraft and frequencies, average ticket prices would rise as competition for those seats increases. Sure, you can fill thousands of seats, but you have to offer rock-bottom prices in order to do so. With less seats on offer, fares are allowed to rise and reflect the true cost of air travel.

Well if airlines start cutting flights and fares go up,
I am sure an LCC will see it as an opportunity and
move in and offer the same flights at lower fares.
it would just give more market share to the LCC's.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

I am concerned as many here as to the consolidation of the airline industry in the USA for it's affects as to fares, employment numbers, pay and benefits to it's employees, quality and quanity of service, especially at peak demand times.
We are ending up in the USA with a 3 tier system. Top would be the traditional airlines including DL, UA, CO and AA. The middle tier would be speciality and regional airlines like Midwest and Alaska. The lower tier would be the lower fare/lower cost airlines including JetBlue, Southwest and Frontier. Hopefully the low or lower cost carriers will prevent the airfares from becoming excessively high, but even they will increase their fares as well as fewer seats will be available overall. That is a problem we may see soon in Europe and Asia.
Perhaps too many of us got spoiled with unsustainable low airfares by the deregulation boom throughout the world over the last almost 30 years and now a new normal is about to exist as to airfares being more realistic as to business side of airlines.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 5):
Quoting SATX (Reply 4):
I support world-wide consolidation.

But it sounds like what you really support is controlling other people based upon how you think they should be allowed to spend their own money. And of course government exists to enable certain people to control many others.

This "air travel is destroying the environment" argument is one of the newer slogans from the enviros, and it has sort of a luddite ring to it, doesn't it? In SATX's world, only the rich and powerful get to fly, leaving the unwashed masses to stay at home and fold their shopping bags for reuse and be content.


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4461 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 9):
I'm sorry, but that's just ignorant. Airlines do not fly money-losing flights unless they have a specific reason. There have been mistakes made, and pride has cause many airline execs to make bad decisions (particularly cutting back on unprofitable routes), but Florida is a moneymaker.

So an university student is calling me ignorant? Who do you think you are? You must be more careful with what you say to an adult who is way more aware of this industry than you are.

Now listen and learn:

Nobody makes money from the NY area to MCO and FLL year round (as an example) since all that capacity was added in the last few years. There is way too much capacity and B6 has been driving fares way too low in order to make money year round. Do you think anybody makes money when B6 sells RSWJFK at USD79? Sure, in the summer very few pay that but year round that fare is widely available.

know why they keep flying? Because of market share issues. Airlines today must keep a significant presence in certain popular routes to mantain MS in others.

Now go back to the campus.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8285 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Then maybe one of you can explain to me why planes, from little CRJ's all the way up to 777's are all flying full. What is the average? 75, 80%?

They're full because prices are cheap. Prices are cheap because there's too much capacity and airlines must operate with rock-bottom yields in order to fill up all those seats. While ticket prices have been going down over the last 20 years everything else has gone up in price, from fuel to labor costs. So as you also pointed out, the industry is stuck in a unsustainable path. The only way to get out of it is through consolidation and reorganization, i.e. less capacity and lower operating costs.


User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Compare the airline industry to the railroads. The railroads used to suffer from the same probelems such as overcapacity, but they merged and we are now down to about 4 major RR's with some smaller ones. Now the 4 majors, BNSF, CSX, Norfolk Southern, and Union Pacific have very little competiton as they mainly operate in different parts of the county. It's been great for them as they now make TONS of money, but shipping has become more expensive. I believe thats what will happen with airlines. We cannot constantly have airlines going into bankruptcy, and there is definately overcapacity. Any industry that cannot make money for 5 yrs with a couple of exceptions such as Southwest and Jetblue, means the business models are flawed. When oil is $60-$70 a barrel, airlines cannot offer $39 fun fares. It just doens't work. I predict some mergers to take place and the price of flying will go up. Airlines are in the business of making money and they must adapt their business models to do this.

User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11522 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 18):
but they merged and we are now down to about 4 major RR's with some smaller ones. Now the 4 majors, BNSF, CSX, Norfolk Southern, and Union Pacific have very little competiton as they mainly operate in different parts of the county. It's been great for them as they now make TONS of money, but shipping has become more expensive

That's not the whole story. Another major component of rail logistics and transportation costs increasing over the last 5-10 years is that demand has shot up. Overland transportation by rail is becoming more and more attractive -- and cost competitive -- as alternative means (air, truck, etc.) become less economically viable due to increasing fuel costs. A market price is determined by two things -- supply and demand. Sure, the mergers of the rail companies affected supply, but the market environment is shaping demand.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 18):
Any industry that cannot make money for 5 yrs with a couple of exceptions such as Southwest and Jetblue, means the business models are flawed

It doesn't mean the business models of all the airlines are flawed. What it means is that when everyone is paying $75 for a barrel of oil, except two or three who are paying $40, the $40 company sets the market floor on prices. That is, indeed, exactly what has happened in the U.S. over the last five years. Following 9/11, the legacy carriers had to sell off their fuel hedges to (successfully or unsuccessfully) avert bankruptcy and free up liquid cash, and as such, were left completely exposed to the stratospheric spike in jet fuel prices since 9/11. Also during this time, they transformed their operations and reworked their networks to better fit the new environment, but all of these efficiencies were wiped out by the spike in energy costs. Southwest has remained profitable because they've had the fuel hedges, and thus were able to price profitably at a level that no other airline could financially compete with. Meantime, every other airline has been forced to match the prices, and thus lost money. Not all the airlines' business models are flawed -- it is quite telling that if fuel prices were where they were in 2000, both American and Continental, as just two examples, would be reporting all-time record profits.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 18):
When oil is $60-$70 a barrel, airlines cannot offer $39 fun fares. It just doens't work

Southwest can, because they are not paying $60-70 a barrel. They're paying $35-45. For now. The hedges are starting to expire, and thus their fares (and the industry's overall) are starting to come up.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 18):
I predict some mergers to take place and the price of flying will go up

Indeed. This is likely how the industry will proceed over the next five years.

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 18):
Airlines are in the business of making money and they must adapt their business models to do this

Well, I'm not sure if I'd agree with you that airlines are pr have ever been "in the business of making money."  Smile

However, while everyone says the airlines need to "adapt their business models," some lose sight of the fact that several U.S. legacy carriers -- namely American and Continental -- have dramatically adapted their business models and have achieved unprecedented restructurings since 9/11. Their continued financial difficulties are now purely -- 100% -- because of fuel prices.


User currently offlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
If DL liquidates

I just don't see that happening. I think that they will eventually emerge from bankrupcy as an independant airline with a solid business plan. They will also continue to expand international service and continue to grow stronger through their Skyteam alliance and regional feeders.

Just my .02



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4210 times:

Two big reasons for the attempted takeover:

#1 - Parker and his cronies are greedy SOBs. He just sold 9 mil in stock in August while paying some of the lowest wages in the industry. They stand to make a huge fortune here.

#2 - He scared of what an emerging Delta will do to his airline. They will come out lean and mean with the a great route structure, low costs, clean airplanes, state of the art on-board entertainment, and down home service then eat his company for lunch while he's still trying to figure out how to integrate the US/AWA mess.

Overcapacity is a myth that the deal-makers who stand to make a fortune love to perpetuate. Planes are full, oil is down, and the population is growing. If you reduce capacity it will just pop up again to fill the need that is there. Southwest, Jet Blue, Airtran etc will be the beneficiaries.

They are basically trying to take out a competitor before it can take them out. It's a highly anti-competitive scheme that the DOJ/Congress will kill if it doesn't die sooner.

[Edited 2006-11-17 19:11:43]

[Edited 2006-11-17 19:16:21]

User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 21):
Overcapacity is a myth that the deal-makers who stand to make a fortune love to perpetuate.

Of course, of course it is a myth... that is why the airlines have in fact been so very profitable these last 5 years!



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 21):
They are basically trying to take out a competitor before it can take them out. It's a highly anti-competitive scheme that the DOJ/Congress will kill if it doesn't die sooner

US/DL combined would have 20% domestic market share. considering AA has around 16% it does not look like a anti-competitive issue.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

I see reasonable mergers as a good thing. While I enjoy choice, i'd like that choice to be universal. What I mean is, I'd like to be able to fly from anywhere to anywhere in the USA on one of 3 or 4 carriers, the same carriers each time. The idea of "regionally strong, regionally weak" airlines in this era seems silly to me, a remnant of the regulated days.

But the mergers need to be sensible in terms of routes and coverage (not fleets).

This is one reason that WN decided to take on ATA's routes. It "completes them" offering Hawaii, LGA and others.

AS+CO+Horizon is sensible. It fills in the gaps CO has and makes an airline that can completely cover the USA.

Alternately, CO+NW might make logical sense.

AA+US is sensible because it takes an airline with 3 strong hubs in the central and south USA with an airline with strong hubs in the middle atlantic and west. Combine the strong focus cities and you have an airline that flies just about everywhere in the USA.

DL already covers the USA. But even UA doesn't, with poor connections from the West to the Southeast.

DL+NW might make logical sense, though with some redundancy.

Even F9 and FL make sense together.

But a merger like DL+US makes no sense to me. It doesn't offer me anything as a consumer. But it's a free market, so if they want to do it, they can do it!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Planemaker : FYI, here is some data from the BTS... Jan-July 2006 Domestic Rank (enplanements in millions) 1 Southwest 56.1 2 American 46.0 3 Delta 37.9 4 United
26 ARGinLON : Mergers don't have to be good for the consumer. This is a move from US purely to grow. How would they grow otherwise on this saturated market?
27 Tango-Bravo : That is how it is supposed to work in a free market economy. The unfortunate reality, however, is that the U.S. airline paradigm has shifted to where
28 MD-90 : Ah, something we can solidly agree on! We can definately agree on that. I apologize for calling you ignorant, it was not my best day.
29 Commavia : Oh please, let's not get histerical. Since the attempted (and failed, I might add) collusion by AA towards Braniff way back in 1983, please provide w
30 Post contains links and images SLCUT2777 : As a consumer all I end up with is FUBAR Air! The biggest most messed up airline in all of the USA let alone the world. If Parker succeeds in getting
31 EA CO AS : Not a merger. In fact, not really a combining of two airlines. Texas Air was at that point the holding company that simply bought EA. Their other hol
32 Goingboeing : I'll give you 4 - USAirways, United, Northwest, Delta. The "collusion" was bankruptcy court. That is perhaps the MOST predatory practice of them all.
33 EWRCabincrew : Tell us how you really feel. Where did the frustration come from? I have been through a HUGE merger (CO/FL/PE/NY) and survived without scrapes. Bette
34 Charger : Prices are cheap because of competition. Take the competition away and they can charge what they like. If there are mergers, the # of flights will be
35 Post contains images TeamAmerica : 1) Planes are full because prices are low. "Overcapacity" doesn't mean more seats than passengers, it means more seats than can be sold profitably. 2
36 Incitatus : It can be argued that mergers are not a controlled experiment. That is, one cannot state that most mergers are worse than the non-merged outcome. Mer
37 Ikramerica : Exactly. DL+US does not meet my "3 or 4 airlines from anywhere to anywhere" test. Instead, it cuts down the options for many people both in the south
38 Commavia : Again, let's not misuse words, just like how some people continually throw around "predatory." The bankruptcy process is in absolutely no way "collus
39 Goingboeing : Indeed....but one has to wonder...how much stronger would CO and AA be had they not had to compete with carriers in bankruptcy protection?
40 Surfdog75 : The problem here is that the so called "legacy airlines" built the aviation system in a regulated environment. They built terminals and airports (tax
41 TeamAmerica : Yeah, there's a bit of truth in that...but so what? If oil goes up, prices go up. No avoiding that. The advantage of LCC's is in low labor costs - as
42 Surfdog75 : It's too important to too many for the answer to be "NOT". Whether it's through alternative, synthetics, cheap fossil fuels, or something we don't ev
43 Commavia : Well, by American's own estimation, they now have the lowest non-labor costs in the U.S. legacy airline industry, and they achieved all of that with
44 Planemaker : It was the majors that wanted the rules changed. Southwest was a small regional airline at the time of deregulation... mainly flying into secondary a
45 TeamAmerica : I hate to quote Al Gore, but we're facing an inconvenient truth. Alternatives do exist and will be used, but they are all more expensive than the che
46 Planemaker : Leaving aside for the moment the enormous carbon sequestration issues, the oil sands in northern Canada have more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia... a
47 77411 : [quote=Jaws707,reply=18]Compare the airline industry to the railroads. The railroads used to suffer from the same problems such as overcapacity, but t
48 Zippyjet : I say no thank you to this merger or any other for that matter. Working for FL, I feel we are doing quite fine as a stand alone and so shall US and DL
49 SATX : I don't follow you. Wouldn't preventing consolidation require more government control than allowing the mergers to take place? I never said it was de
50 WDBRR : Capitalism is based on supply and demand and free market. if there is a demand for something, someone will see this as an opportunity to make money a
51 Post contains images SBN580 : I think this has to be one of the most thought provoking threads on A.net I have ever read. So many interesting takes. Matt D, thanks for opeing this
52 Bobnwa : Actually all the major airlines at the time with one exception testified against de-regulation. The exception could have been United, but I am not po
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