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Question About DTW History  
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Posted (8 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3471 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



I recently acquired about two dozen aircraft photos (in slide format) from my great uncle. He shot these photos in the early 1960s at DTW. Among them are some goodies such as AA Lockheed Electras, some United DC-6s, and some North Central DC-3s and Convairs.

Also included in the collection are some shots of a DC-8 arriving and departing DTW. My great uncle claims the DC-8 arrival was a publicized event, as it was the very first arrival of a (presumably commercial) jet aircraft at DTW.

I'd like to confirm this, but I haven't been able to find any documentation of the first jet arrival at DTW. Is there any way to confirm this?

Thanks in advance, and yes...I'll certainly be scanning and uploading the slides to the database.  Wink



2H4





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21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Thread starter):
My great uncle claims the DC-8 arrival was a publicized event, as it was the very first arrival of a (presumably commercial) jet aircraft at DTW.

I kind of have trouble with that.

The 707 was in service well ahead of the DC-8, so I have to assume that 707 service to DTW begain before DC-8 flights.


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3450 times:

On Nov 15th 1959,Delta started DC_8 service on the Detroit-Miami run. This was indeed the first jet service to Detroit

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

DL had the first jets into DTW.
And you guessed it....it was a DC 8
and to Miami.
Its a toss up between Pan Am or AA who was next at DTW.

I think the first jets to YIP were EA but I may have to research that.
Might have been UA to LAX........

In 1960, Capital, UA, TW, NC, Mohawk and EA were using YIP. The move to DTW came in two shifts in 1966, the first in April and the rest in June or July.
This was because of the terminal completion at DTW.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

list of first jet service

Idlewild-Oct 4th,1958-Comet,BOAC
Idlewid-Oct 26th,1958-707,PanAm
Miami-Dec 10th,1958-707,National
LAX-Jan 25th,1959-707,American
SFO-March 20th,1959707,TWA
ORD-March 21st,1959-707, American
Boston-June 1st,1959-707,American
Baltimore-June 1st,1959-707,TWA
Dallas-July 12th,1959-707,American
St Louis- july 21st, 1959-707,TWA
Kansas City-Aug 2nd,1959-707,TWA
Denver-Aug 15th,1959-707,Continental
Atlanta-Sept 18th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Detroit-Nov 15th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Houston-Dec 1st, 1959-DC-8,Delta


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3412 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Well, I just had another look, and the DC-8 in question is, in fact, a United DC-8. He must have been misinformed. Perhaps it was the first arrival of a DC-8 from that particular airline.

Thanks for the info!



2H4





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User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 4):
Idlewild-Oct 4th,1958-Comet,BOAC
Idlewid-Oct 26th,1958-707,PanAm
Miami-Dec 10th,1958-707,National
LAX-Jan 25th,1959-707,American
SFO-March 20th,1959707,TWA
ORD-March 21st,1959-707, American
Boston-June 1st,1959-707,American
Baltimore-June 1st,1959-707,TWA
Dallas-July 12th,1959-707,American
St Louis- july 21st, 1959-707,TWA
Kansas City-Aug 2nd,1959-707,TWA
Denver-Aug 15th,1959-707,Continental
Atlanta-Sept 18th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Detroit-Nov 15th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Houston-Dec 1st, 1959-DC-8,Delta

How cool, thanks for the list.

Question....did the 707 make any appearances at DTW or YIP (ie: press trips, proving runs) prior to the Delta DC-8 entry into commercial service?


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
2H4

Glad to help.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 4):
Dtw9

Interesting stuff. Thanks for that..I was living in KC at the time TW sent the 707 to LAX CO was four days behind with their Golden Jet 707, also to LAX.
Both left KC with a hour or so of each other....
thanks again.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

First DC-8 service to KYIP was United.I show them flying out of KYIP in May,1960. Eastern started DC-8's from KYIP on Dec 14th 1960

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

I don't see PA Jet service into DTW prior to 4/30/60.

DC-8 ORD-DTW-BOS-LHR-HAM-DUS


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 4):
Idlewild-Oct 4th,1958-Comet,BOAC
Idlewid-Oct 26th,1958-707,PanAm
Miami-Dec 10th,1958-707,National
LAX-Jan 25th,1959-707,American
SFO-March 20th,1959707,TWA
ORD-March 21st,1959-707, American
Boston-June 1st,1959-707,American
Baltimore-June 1st,1959-707,TWA
Dallas-July 12th,1959-707,American
St Louis- july 21st, 1959-707,TWA
Kansas City-Aug 2nd,1959-707,TWA
Denver-Aug 15th,1959-707,Continental
Atlanta-Sept 18th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Detroit-Nov 15th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Houston-Dec 1st, 1959-DC-8,Delta

Don't forget to add July 25, 1959 PIT-TWA 707. Thanks for the wonderful list.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1610 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 4):
list of first jet service

Idlewild-Oct 4th,1958-Comet,BOAC
Idlewid-Oct 26th,1958-707,PanAm
Miami-Dec 10th,1958-707,National
LAX-Jan 25th,1959-707,American
SFO-March 20th,1959707,TWA
ORD-March 21st,1959-707, American
Boston-June 1st,1959-707,American
Baltimore-June 1st,1959-707,TWA
Dallas-July 12th,1959-707,American
St Louis- july 21st, 1959-707,TWA
Kansas City-Aug 2nd,1959-707,TWA
Denver-Aug 15th,1959-707,Continental
Atlanta-Sept 18th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Detroit-Nov 15th,1959-DC-8,Delta
Houston-Dec 1st, 1959-DC-8,Delta

And please add...
San Diego-Sept 13th, 1960-720, United to SFO



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
I don't see PA Jet service into DTW prior to 4/30/60.

I think PanAm waited for the 707-320 before offering service to Detroit. In what year did DTW-LHR become Non-stop?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
Question....did the 707 make any appearances at DTW or YIP (ie: press trips, proving runs) prior to the Delta DC-8 entry into commercial service?

If it did, it would have been on the day that the Military shut down all commercial airspace for a day for air defence exercises.(are you old enough to remember those? I hate to say it, but I am.). Local airports used to have open houses to try and get people interested into doing their travelling by air. The airlines would position their newest equipment at major airports to show the public how safe and advanced air travel was or had become. The question is though, which airport did they use, DTW or YIP.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
If it did, it would have been on the day that the Military shut down all commercial airspace for a day for air defence exercises.(are you old enough to remember those? I hate to say it, but I am.).

I posted a thread asking about that a while ago (sometime last year) and no one else knew about it. Do you know any details on that?

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
I think PanAm waited for the 707-320 before offering service to Detroit.

My source is: Douglas DC-8, by George Cleary, pg. 28.

Aslo Pan Am and Its Aircraft, by REG Davis shows OCT 1960 Jet Routes w/ Detroit.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 12):
If it did, it would have been on the day that the Military shut down all commercial airspace for a day for air defence exercises.(are you old enough to remember those? I hate to say it, but I am.).

I posted a thread asking about that a while ago (sometime last year) and no one else knew about it. Do you know any details on that?

As I recall they didn't shut the country down for a whole 24-hour day. Wasn't it mostly overnight? Happened ... twice, maybe?

As for the slide-- no reason to assume the DC-8 is on a scheduled flight?


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3303 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting Timz (Reply 14):
As for the slide-- no reason to assume the DC-8 is on a scheduled flight?

Good point...



2H4





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User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 14):
As I recall they didn't shut the country down for a whole 24-hour day. Wasn't it mostly overnight? Happened ... twice, maybe?

I know this is way off topic...but does anyone know what this operation was called?


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3289 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 14):
As for the slide-- no reason to assume the DC-8 is on a scheduled flight?

Oops-- if it's United at DTW, then of course it wasn't scheduled ...


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

I should have been clearer. I was referring to initial PamAm 707 service to Detroit

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 13):
I posted a thread asking about that a while ago (sometime last year) and no one else knew about it. Do you know any details on that?

American bombers, like this B-52G, pretended to be an attacking Soviet force in the first two Sky Shield operations.The first time the U.S. government ordered all private planes to stay on the ground was exactly 42 years ago, on September 10, 1960. The U.S. and Canadian governments were jointly conducting a massive exercise called "Sky Shield" which tested North America's air defenses. About 310 American bombers (B-47s and B-52s) pretended to be an attacking Soviet force, and fighter planes were dispatched to intercept them. Because of the magnitude of the exercise, all civil aircraft were grounded from 2 a.m. to 8 a.m. Hundreds of airline flights in the U.S. and Canada were cancelled or rescheduled.

A second exercise, Sky Shield II, followed on October 14-15, 1961. This sequel, larger than the first Sky Shield, involved more than 200,000 personnel in the U.S. and Canada, both in the air and on the ground. The simulated Soviets used creative tricks to sneak into the airspace above major population centers; only a quarter of the "attackers" were intercepted. Meanwhile, the airports were shut down and the airlines were grounded for twelve hours. Some airports and airlines used the occasion to hold parties and give tours. Other airports used the flight suspension to install equipment, like a new control tower at Los Angeles International and a new communications center at O'Hare in Chicago.

Sky Shield III followed on September 2, 1962. During this drill, all civil aviation in North America was suspended for five and a half hours while hundreds of military aircraft took to the sky pretending to be normal civilian airplanes. In the simulation, the Soviets had just attacked several cities with nuclear weapons -- so the military and civil authorities in the U.S. and Canada rushed to get all the mock civil air traffic to land at the nearest safe airports. Within 72 minutes, all the fake civilian planes were on the ground.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 17):
Oops-- if it's United at DTW, then of course it wasn't scheduled ...

Perhaps part of United's "Jetarama" traveling show they used to introduce the public to jet service.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,2731,00.html

[Edited 2006-11-17 22:17:50]

User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3278 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 3):
Its a toss up between Pan Am or AA who was next at DTW.

American's first 707 service to DTW was on 25 Apr 1960, to ORD.

AA added jet service to Detroit relatively late because AA did not have any long haul routes from DTW when the 707 entered service. AA did not receive DTW-LAX/SFO nonstop authority until the mid 1960's.

DTW-LGA was, however, AA's 2nd Lockheed Electra route, after Chicago-LaGuardia; AA began DTW-LGA Electra flights less than a month after the Electra entered revenue service.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 18):
American bombers, like this B-52G, pretended to be an attacking Soviet force in the first two Sky Shield operations.The first time the U.S. government ordered all private planes to stay on the ground was exactly 42 years ago, on September 10, 1960. The U.S. and Canadian governments were jointly conducting a massive exercise called "Sky Shield" which tested North America's air defenses. About 310 American bombers (B-47s and B-52s) pretended to be an attacking Soviet force, and fighter planes were dispatched to intercept them. Because of the magnitude of the exercise, all civil aircraft were grounded from 2 a.m. to 8 a.m. Hundreds of airline flights in the U.S. and Canada were cancelled or rescheduled.

A second exercise, Sky Shield II, followed on October 14-15, 1961. This sequel, larger than the first Sky Shield, involved more than 200,000 personnel in the U.S. and Canada, both in the air and on the ground. The simulated Soviets used creative tricks to sneak into the airspace above major population centers; only a quarter of the "attackers" were intercepted. Meanwhile, the airports were shut down and the airlines were grounded for twelve hours. Some airports and airlines used the occasion to hold parties and give tours. Other airports used the flight suspension to install equipment, like a new control tower at Los Angeles International and a new communications center at O'Hare in Chicago.

Sky Shield III followed on September 2, 1962. During this drill, all civil aviation in North America was suspended for five and a half hours while hundreds of military aircraft took to the sky pretending to be normal civilian airplanes. In the simulation, the Soviets had just attacked several cities with nuclear weapons -- so the military and civil authorities in the U.S. and Canada rushed to get all the mock civil air traffic to land at the nearest safe airports. Within 72 minutes, all the fake civilian planes were on the ground.

Thanks DTW (No I'm not thanking myself Big grin )


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